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Car Forum / Honda Cars / May 2009To rotate or not to rotate
I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil change so I asked for the oil change and a tire rotation. I'd had them rotated at about 6,800 when the last oil change was called for. When I got the car back the service person said they didn't totate the tires for me "because there were no signs of wear yet'. I thought that was the whole idea of rotating tires, so that they wear evenly and you don't see "signs of wear" for a longer time. And what kind of dealer service outfit turns down an easy twenty five dollar charge in the first place? I am bewildered. >I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took > it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > kind of dealer service outfit turns down an easy twenty five dollar > charge in the first place? I am bewildered. Right, rotating tires is to even out uneven wear. If you have zero uneven wear, then what are you accomplishing by doing a rotation? Nothing to be gained. On the other hand, disrupting things could cause a problem. Others may disagree. But I am very conscience of my alignment and never rotate my tires and have no uneven tire wear. As for what type of shop turns down an easy $25 charge? The answer would be a reputable one. >>I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took >> it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > As for what type of shop turns down an easy $25 charge? The answer would > be a reputable one. I'm not sure you come out ahead cost wise paying $25 a pop to rotate tires regularly vs. just getting a few thousand less miles on unrotated ones and replacing them a little earlier. >>>I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took >>> it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > regularly vs. just getting a few thousand less miles on unrotated ones and > replacing them a little earlier. I'm not advocating tire rotation... On the one hand, costs aside, uneven tire wear can be a safety hazard so there is money to be saved by doing it in avoiding accidents. But again, rotating tires is a band aid on a different problem. What is causing uneven tire wear? For some it could just be from being too heavy on the gas and brake pedals (front to back differences in tire wear). Uneven tire wear on different sides of vehicle could be alignment. Me, I don't rotate my tires and haven't seen evidence that I need to (my side to side wear is even). I replace my tires 2 at a time replacing the rears with the fronts and new tires up front. So yeah, a little bit of a rotation cycle, but that's it. FWIW I try to buy tires 4 at a time, when I'm more likely to find a discount ($ off per set, buy-3-get-1, etc.). Since every FWD car I've owned has worn the fronts faster than rears, I usually wind up doing 2~3 front <-> back rotations over the life of the tires. i am retired but work for hertz . hertz does not rotate tired and now we put as much as 60000 miles on a car before it is taken out of service. have noticed when tires are not rotated after about 25000 miles that start getting noisy. i usually rotate tires on my 2 cars every 5000 miles and have not noticed this . >I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took >it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >kind of dealer service outfit turns down an easy twenty five dollar >charge in the first place? I am bewildered. It must be twenty years since new advice came out from the Japanese makers, do not rotate tyres this only accelerates wear. Just how far behind the rest of the world are the Merkins?  SignatureClive > >I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took > >it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > makers, do not rotate tyres this only accelerates wear. Just how far > behind the rest of the world are the Merkins? Where do you get your erroneous information? Honda still includes tire rotation as a maintenance item. The following is from the Honda website for the current Accord: "The Maintenance Minder(TM) tracks services on a mileage basis such as the miles between changes to the air filter, spark plugs, coolant and tire rotation. In addition, engine sensors detect driving conditions to recommend when an oil change is recommended and send that information to the Maintenance Minder." >> It must be twenty years since new advice came out from the Japanese >> makers, do not rotate tyres this only accelerates wear. Just how far [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >rotation as a maintenance item. The following is from the Honda website >for the current Accord: My advice comes from the Nissan N16 workshop manual, there is no higher authority. SignatureClive >>> It must be twenty years since new advice came out from the Japanese >>> makers, do not rotate tyres this only accelerates wear. Just how far [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >My advice comes from the Nissan N16 workshop manual, there is no higher >authority. For a Nissan. I believe ww're talking Hondas here. My 2008 Honda Service History booklet (must remember to put it back in the car!) Says that A1 mainanence minder alerts specify oil change and tire rotation. I had my oil done at a local oil place that I trust very much (they've never, for instance, said "here's your air filter"). I can rotate the tires myself. I log this in the booklet, including the torque figures at rotation and 100 and 250 miles. When I a-x'ed my Civic, my BFG R1s were always marked for the corner. Anyone want to buy a set of R1s mounted on 96 alloy rims with about 1/64 inch tread? Still a-x legal. Central Texas area only. Signature- dillon I am not invalid The RMS Titanic sank on April 15th. US income taxes are due on April 15th. Coincidence? I think not. On 5/14/09 10:05 AM, in article ndco05l26pk1c1kivkljn1r42l1ntjuc0b@4ax.com, >>>> It must be twenty years since new advice came out from the Japanese >>>> makers, do not rotate tyres this only accelerates wear. Just how far [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > For a Nissan. I believe ww're talking Hondas here. My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500 miles, but it is in the owner's manual, not the shop manual. I think somebody is looking in the wrong place. >My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500 miles, but >it is in the owner's manual, not the shop manual. I think somebody is >looking in the wrong place. I don't know anything about the Altima. I have had seven Nissan cars over the last 30 years and each one has been an improvement on the last, so imagine how disappointed I was to have a Dodge Avenger as a hire car last I visited the sates, only to find that it STILL had drum brakes on the rear. How backward can you get, no wonder that the rest of the world is avoiding Merkin cars and going Japanese, at least you're getting state of the art, or as you would say, "more bang for your buck". SignatureClive >> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500 >> miles, but [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > avoiding Merkin cars and going Japanese, at least you're getting state > of the art, or as you would say, "more bang for your buck". Er, drum brakes in rear applications are a whole lot simpler than disks. much less costly to repair and MUCH easier to repair. Sometimes, new is NOT better... JT >>> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500 >>> miles, but [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > JT disk brakes are more linear in application. technically, that makes for a better brake. and these days, most manufacturers on the high end at least, sensibly, are using a hybrid disk/drum brake. the service brake is disk. the parking brake is a drum inside the hub of the disk. that keeps both sets of working parts simple and reliable. and in the event of emergency, you still have a cool brake to use that hasn't faded yet. >>>> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500 >>>> miles, but [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > disk brakes are more linear in application. technically, that makes for > a better brake. Which doesn't amount to a hill of beans regarding rear brake performance. > and these days, most manufacturers on the high end at least, sensibly, > are using a hybrid disk/drum brake. the service brake is disk. the > parking brake is a drum inside the hub of the disk. that keeps both > sets of working parts simple and reliable. and in the event of > emergency, you still have a cool brake to use that hasn't faded yet. Oh sure, complicate the assembly which only gives marginally improved performance at triple the price when considering original cost and maintenance/repairs. You sure are a gem to muddy the waters... JT >Oh sure, complicate the assembly which only gives marginally improved >performance at triple the price when considering original cost and >maintenance/repairs. It's taken you a long time to catch up, most European/Japanese cars have been like this for 20+ years. SignatureClive >>>>> My 2008 Nissan Altima manual specifies tire rotations every 7500 >>>>> miles, but [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Which doesn't amount to a hill of beans regarding rear brake performance. why not just say front brake performance too and really get the old cranium well below the sand? >> and these days, most manufacturers on the high end at least, sensibly, >> are using a hybrid disk/drum brake. the service brake is disk. the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > performance at triple the price when considering original cost and > maintenance/repairs. actually, it's cheaper for the manufacturer. drum brakes are cheap. simple calipers are cheap. complex calipers with hand brake actuation are complicated and difficult to implement, expensive and not too reliable. and in addition to price, the combined drum/disk solution gives better performance and safety! seems like a decent idea to me. > You sure are a gem to muddy the waters... you're the kind of guy that would complain about a strawberry shake with real strawberries and real cream not being plain tepid milk. >actually, it's cheaper for the manufacturer. drum brakes are cheap. And lead to brake fade, I've been there once, never again, anyone that thinks differently has never had the experience. > complex calipers with hand brake actuation are complicated and >difficult to implement, But not to difficult for the Japanese, > expensive and not too reliable. Not my experience, > and in addition to price, the combined drum/disk solution gives >better performance and safety! seems like a decent idea to me. But is rubbish to me. I've got a "cheap" Nissan Almera first registered in late 02, or as our plates show "52", discs alround, and no problems. The Japanese make cars worth driving, the Merkins don't, and the faster they realise that the better their sales will be. SignatureClive If they show signs of uneven wear it is time to find out what part of the suspension is out of wack. Rotating has become common since front wheel drive. By regular rotation tire wear is even on all four tires. Without rotation front tires wear out faster so when it is time to change you have two good tires and two worn out tires. Rotating in the correct sequence also helps wear on all four tires even which improves handling and gets you the maximum miles on a set of tires. > I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. A few weeks ago I took > it into the local dealer because the maint mider was indication oil [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > kind of dealer service outfit turns down an easy twenty five dollar > charge in the first place? I am bewildered. > If they show signs of uneven wear it is time to find out what part of > the suspension is out of wack. Rotating has become common since front [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> kind of dealer service outfit turns down an easy twenty five dollar >> charge in the first place? I am bewildered. but driving on freshly rotated tires also causes you to have less rubber on the ground because of the wear patterns. chalk a piece of smooth surface, then drive a freshly rotated tire over it and look to see for yourself. this is why, as stated by others, many japanese, and also many european vehicle manufacturers, do /not/ recommend rotations. indeed, on many vehicles with different tire sizes front and rear, and directional tires, you can't! On May 12, 8:11 am, Jack Benny <pkline_no_s...@ltdcommodities.com> wrote: > I have a 2008 Civic with about 13,500 miles. got to an auto parts store and buy a tire tread depth gauge for $2 or $3. measure tread depth along the inside, middle and outside of each of your 4 tires. if you find the outer edges of the front tires are 1/32 less deep than the inside edges and the rears are even, then you'll know you need to have your tires rotated. see tirerack links for some additional info. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=1 http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=43 If you drive gently, a car like the Civic won't wear tires very quickly and tire rotations are not needed very often. The harder you drive, the more quickly the tires, especially the fronts, will wear. See alignment info below re. tire wear patterns; http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm happy motoring |
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