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Car Forum / Honda Cars / November 20091990 Honda Accord runs hot sometimes
I have a 1990 Honda Accord. It usually runs with the temperature guage in the middle range. Frequently the guage will quicky go up to close to, but not at the high end red mark. This happens even when its 50 degrees out and I am going 45 mph. If I turn on the heater the temperature usually goes back to middle. It goes down very quicky, within 10 seconds of turning on the heater. I dont believe the heater could cool things off that quickly. I have a new radiator and antifreeze. I am not loosing coolant. Could it be a hose or chamber that is blocked/pinched, and turning on the heater is allowing the coolant to byupass the blockage ? Any helpful comments appreciated. G >I have a 1990 Honda Accord. It usually runs with the temperature >guage in the middle range. Frequently the guage will quicky go up [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >G Head Gasket ? >>I have a 1990 Honda Accord. It usually runs with the temperature >>guage in the middle range. Frequently the guage will quicky go up [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Head Gasket ? I'm thinking thermostat. >>>I have a 1990 Honda Accord. It usually runs with the temperature >>>guage in the middle range. Frequently the guage will quicky go up [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >I'm thinking thermostat. I hope u are right. I doubt its the head gasket. It never gets too hot. Most of the time it runs fine and doesnt get hot. Why would turning on the heater make the temperature go down immediately if it were headgasket. Thermostat sounds interesting. Does the heater somehow bypass the the thermostat ? How difficult is it to replace the thermostat ? How much should it cost to have someone do it (ballpark) ? Thanks G >I doubt its the head gasket. It never gets too hot. Most of the time it > runs fine and doesnt get hot. Why would turning on the heater make the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > thermostat ? How difficult is it to replace the thermostat ? How much > should it cost to have someone do it (ballpark) ? The heater doesn't bypass but redirects heat. Those coolant lines go through the heater core. With the heat on, a fan blows across it sending the heat into the cabin. For how to change it... http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_replace_the_thermostat_on_a_1990_Honda_Accord_LX On 11/4/09 3:41 PM, in article hcsseu$bih$1@news.eternal-september.org, >> I doubt its the head gasket. It never gets too hot. Most of the time it >> runs fine and doesnt get hot. Why would turning on the heater make the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_replace_the_thermostat_on_a_1990_Honda_Ac > cord_LX New radiator sounds like a clue. Check for air bubble in the system. I believe a '90 has a "burp" screw. Where is the burp screw ? How do you use it ? G On 11/5/09 11:27 AM, in article hcv1ss$lop@venera.isi.edu, "Gene Wagenbreth" <genewxxx@isi-OS4> wrote: > Where is the burp screw ? How do you use it ? > > G Look in the vicinity of the top radiator hose connection on the engine for either a small hex head bolt/screw. Set the heater to max, open it a couple of turns until coolant comes out in a steady stream without bubbles. Close the screw, top it off & idle the engine until the radiator fan comes on twice (heater still at max) then open it again (VERY slowly) and let any trapped air out. For the next several days, check & top off the radiator & overflow tank before the first start in the morning & it should get rid of all the air. >On 11/5/09 11:27 AM, in article hcv1ss$lop@venera.isi.edu, "Gene Wagenbreth" ><genewxxx@isi-OS4> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >For the next several days, check & top off the radiator & overflow tank >before the first start in the morning & it should get rid of all the air. Is this the same thing as using the drain screw at the bottom of the radiator? Not sure if this Honda has one but some cars had it. >>On 11/5/09 11:27 AM, in article hcv1ss$lop@venera.isi.edu, "Gene Wagenbreth" >><genewxxx@isi-OS4> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Is this the same thing as using the drain screw at the bottom of the >radiator? Not sure if this Honda has one but some cars had it. No, air goes up. You can't drain air from a system at the bottom. On 11/5/09 1:55 PM, in article csa6f59o71r44rgmk39ndjanmnrtgqm7pf@4ax.com, >> On 11/5/09 11:27 AM, in article hcv1ss$lop@venera.isi.edu, "Gene Wagenbreth" >> <genewxxx@isi-OS4> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Is this the same thing as using the drain screw at the bottom of the > radiator? Not sure if this Honda has one but some cars had it. Absolutely not! We're talking about a screw on the top of the engine to let the air bubbles out. > I have a 1990 Honda Accord. It usually runs with the temperature > guage in the middle range. Frequently the guage will quicky go up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > very quicky, within 10 seconds of turning on the heater. I dont > believe the heater could cool things off that quickly. It can indeed! Considering there's only about 20F or so difference between "normal" and "overheat", the heater doesn't have to do much to cool the engine down sufficiently. > I have a new radiator and antifreeze. I am not loosing coolant. Why was the old rad replaced? And how old was the coolant that was in there before? > Could it be a hose or chamber that is blocked/pinched, and turning > on the heater is allowing the coolant to byupass the blockage ? > > Any helpful comments appreciated. Sure does sound like a sticking thermostat. I'll bet it's crappy aftermarket, too. The heater feed is independent of the thermostat, so it will work even when the engine is cold and the thermostat is closed. Try a new OEM Honda thermostat. About $40 or so and worth every penny.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Sure does sound like a sticking thermostat. I'll bet it's crappy > aftermarket, too. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Try a new OEM Honda thermostat. About $40 or so and worth every penny. I doubt Honda manufactures their own thermostats -- instead buying them from one of the high quality specialty manufacturers-- as they do for so many parts and subassemblies of the car. Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured aftermarket part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra dough? >> Sure does sound like a sticking thermostat. I'll bet it's crappy >> aftermarket, too. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I doubt Honda manufactures their own thermostats They don't. The ones I see are made by Nippon Thermostat, are marked "NTCL", and are of superlative quality. > -- instead buying > them from one of the high quality specialty manufacturers-- as they do > for so many parts and subassemblies of the car. > > Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured aftermarket > part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra dough? Because OEM is built to Honda's exacting and stringent specs. Aftermarket, even from the same manufacturer as the OEM stuff, is built to be cheap. Aftermarket is crap, and aftermarket thermostats are crappy. There is no acceptably "high quality" aftermarket thermostat available for Hondas. Anything other than OEM is a step down. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> Sure does sound like a sticking thermostat. I'll bet it's crappy >>> aftermarket, too. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > acceptably "high quality" aftermarket thermostat available for Hondas. > Anything other than OEM is a step down. OK, thanks. You convinced me... >>> Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured >>> aftermarket part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > OK, thanks. You convinced me... You gave in quick. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>> Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured >>>> aftermarket part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >You gave in quick. I replaced the thermostat in my 91 Accord. It still gave me no heat. I replaced it again, no heat. I gave up and took it to Honda. They replaced the thermostat. I got heat. I learned my lesson. >>>>> Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured >>>>> aftermarket part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >replaced it again, no heat. I gave up and took it to Honda. They >replaced the thermostat. I got heat. I learned my lesson. You probably were putting it in upside down to begin with. OEM SchmoEM , a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You are buying the exact same aftermarket product 9 out of 10 times in most parts. > OEM SchmoEM, a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a > contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You > are buying the exact same aftermarket product 9 out of 10 times in > most parts. O, ye of little experience! SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> OEM SchmoEM, a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a >> contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You >> are buying the exact same aftermarket product 9 out of 10 times in >> most parts. > >O, ye of little experience! I am open for proof. I will humbly apologize if proven wrong. Sometimes I feel a couple of people in this group either work for or own a dealership. Hence the OEM rhetoric. >>> OEM SchmoEM, a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a >>> contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Sometimes I feel a couple of people in this group either work for or > own a dealership. Hence the OEM rhetoric. When OEM SchomoEM is making them for sale to the public, they can make them as cheaply as they want to maximize profit. When making them for Honda, they have to follow specific standards per their contract with Honda which may (and usually is) better than the minimum to maximize profit. Honda doesn't want to let a cheap part ruin the reputation of the car line. Yup, often times that OEM part will be more expensive than the 3rd party equivalent. But it's still a tiny fraction of the over all cost of the car and most times not worth the hassle. I bought my Hondas for reliability. I'm not going to jeopardize that with a weak link. >>>> OEM SchmoEM, a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a >>>> contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >I bought my Hondas for reliability. I'm not going to jeopardize that with a >weak link. Do you really think a company retools their production line to produce 2 different quality parts ? Give your head a shake. > Do you really think a company retools their production line to > produce 2 different quality parts? Yes! All the time! They usually cannot use the same line to produce parts for the aftermarket. They are usually not allowed by the terms of the contract. All the gauges and jigs that are used to confirm fit are the property of the automaker (it even says so right on them). Plus they are also ordinarily not allowed to use the automaker's CAD files or working drawings for their aftermarket part. This means that companies that do aftermarket parts as well as OEM may need to use employees with no exposure to the OEM data. Those employees need to reverse-engineer an actual OEM part to arrive at the necessary information to be able to produce their aftermarket part, making a lot of guesses in the process. There are some exceptions, of course. Sometimes the automaker will allow the supplier to sell their own version of the part which is just about identical to OEM, but without the automaker's name on it. The supplier in those cases will often cheapen the part a bit in order to help make a margin on the part (which won't sell for the same as OEM!). Less expensive polymers, smaller bearings, looser tolerances, that sort of thing. The primary problem for aftermarket is that OEM development and tooling is created with minimum 3-year warranties and high-volume production in mind. The aftermarket operates on far lower volumes, and usually competes on price and not quality. This leaves much less in the way of resources to, for instance, send molds and stamping dies back over and over again until they are "just so". For OEM, getting a tool "just so" can literally take months of expensive revisions. Aftermarket just hasn't got the money for that. And there are many companies that Honda buys parts from which do not sell to the aftermarket at all. I believe NTCL is one of those. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ <snip> > The primary problem for aftermarket is that OEM development and tooling is > created with minimum 3-year warranties and high-volume production in mind. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > months of expensive revisions. Aftermarket just hasn't got the money for > that. <snip> IMO, the question becomes where one chooses to draw the line. For many parts I will not settle for less than OEM. For others, I will go aftermarket without a second thought. I have yet to have a problem with a decent aftermarket thermostat that I haven't had with an OEM thermostat, and the both seem to last about the same length of time. In fact, I seem to recall that the thermostat in my 1991 Accord is a decade-or-so-old aftermarket one, and it works just fine. Cheap ones are pretty obviously cheap ones, and I don't use them unless there is no choice (and then I plan to replace them quickly). Maybe I've been lucky, but I have been working on cars for a long time (and did so professionally for a few years when I was in my 20's, which was a Long Time ago), and this is not a one-off experience. Honda's OEM quality is not always impeccable, either. I'm not sure how many exhaust pipes I've replaced over the years on my '91 but the dealer did the first one under warranty (!) and decent aftermarket (e.g., Bosal) pipes last easily as long as the Honda ones at a lower price. There is likewise no reason I can discern to buy Honda brake pads or rotors or axles. Honda electrical parts of this vintage are prone to cold solder joints over time, and I don't know whether they ever re-spec'ed the solder or procedures to fix that, but I do know that things like aftermarket alternators and starters (and I have seen a cold solder joint in an original OEM Honda starter that I repaired by reflowing it) have proved quite reliable. The local dealer is very cooperative in being competitive for most parts with aftermarket prices, so as it happens I usually buy OEM for the Accord (and did likewise for the '90 Civic) but I am not wedded to the notion that all OEM parts are substantially superior to all aftermarket parts, as it's simply not the case in my experience. SignatureJRE >>>>> OEM SchmoEM, a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a >>>>> contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Do you really think a company retools their production line to > produce 2 different quality parts ? Give your head a shake. Sure do. Could be to produce the 3rd party product at a lower manufacturing cost to increase profit or to satisfy a contractual obligation on behalf of the OEM (like Honda) they produce the OEM product for. It's called business. >>> OEM SchmoEM, a thermostat is a thermostat. Company A bids on a >>> contract to supply Honda with them , Honda jacks price by 30% . You [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Sometimes I feel a couple of people in this group either work for or > own a dealership. Hence the OEM rhetoric. I have no connection with Honda, any of its regional subsidiaries, or with any dealership. My strong preference for OEM parts is due simply to my very many poor experiences with aftermarket parts, and the exact opposite with OEM. The aftermarket's "Worst of" list consists primarily of these areas: Ignition Fuel Filtration Exhaust Cooling system Brakes Body parts Lighting There are a few aftermarket parts I don't have a problem with. Radiators, for one example. Aftermarket tends to be just about as good quality as OEM, and for a third the price. Windshield glass is another example. Again, similar quality to OEM at a third the price. But pretty much everything else is a poor second to OEM. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>> Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured >>>> aftermarket part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You gave in quick. It may appear that way to you, Grasshopper-- but I live my life in harmony with the teachings of the great Western poet/philosopher Kenny Rogers: "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em..." >> Sure does sound like a sticking thermostat. I'll bet it's crappy >> aftermarket, too. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Why not just buy a high quality well designed/manufactured aftermarket > part -- not just some Big Box POS-- and save the extra dough? how do you KNOW the aftermarket part is "well-designed/manufactured"? At least with a true Honda part,you know it meets all specs. Now,if you could find out who is Honda's OEM manufacturer for that part... then you could go buy it aftermarket. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com > how do you KNOW the aftermarket part is "well-designed/manufactured"? > At least with a true Honda part,you know it meets all specs. And that makes ALL the difference in the world. It's why a FRAM oil filter is of excellent quality when purchased with a blue can and the "Honda" logo on it, but an aftermarket FRAM has a questionable reputation. > Now,if you could find out who is Honda's OEM manufacturer for that > part... then you could go buy it aftermarket. Honda thermostats are made by Nippon Thermostat (NTCL). AFAIK, NTCL is like Showa, in that they do OEM-only. No aftermarket. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
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