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Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 2004Comparison b/w Civic SI, Civic DX-G, Corolla, & Matrix?
I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around $16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: 1. 2003 Toyota Matrix XRS or XR B-pack 2. 2004/2005 Toyota Corollla B-Pack 3. 1998-2002 Honda Civic SI 4. 2001-2003 Honda Civic DX-G I previously owned a 1993 Saturn SL1 and liked the luxury-type features (A/C, pdl, pw, pm, comfy seats, cruise, tilt, etc) and a Jeep YJ (convertible - openness). I currently drive a 1997 Toyota Corolla SD, the plain-jane no frill model. It doesn't even have A/C. I have a 15 month old child and A/C is kinda needed. My Corolla is also very uncomfy and not suitable for long drives. In my new car, I want some frills, like keyless entry, pw, sunroof would be AWESOME!, cruise control, etc. Price is also a factor - I'm a full-time dad raising my child and the more money saved the better. I want reliability, practicality, comfort, gas mileage, etc. It's going to be for daily driving mostly in the city. I live in the cold climate of Canada which ranges from +30C to -30C (-22F to 86F) so heat and coolness are big factors as well as handling in ice/snow/rain. I'm looking for honest and unbiased opinions. I'm posting this in Honda & Toyota newsgroups and I know people in their respective ones no-doubt prefer the company they are driving, but please be as impartial as possible. I only plan to buy one new car in the next 10-15 years and this will be it. Tell me your gripes and your praises for any of the models you own(ed) above or have heard about. All comments appreciated!! My current views are: 1. The Matrix seems very practical for everything. Reliability is hard to tell because they are relatively new but they seem OK? They may be a bit big tho and I wonder about fuel consumption? Pricy, too, for the higher models. 2. I love Corollas for their reliability and price. I tried an '04 out in the winter and it handled VERY well. It was also very warm and somewhat comfy. I've heard the '05's will be very comfy. It also seemed to have alot of power. I guess my only gripe with them is their simplicity. Simple can be good, but they aren't great looking cars and they lack the sunroof which I'd really like if possible. Still tho, for the price it's a pretty good choice. 3. I'd love to own an SI but I wonder about 2-door for a child? Many say it's hard to get them in and out and it's not so great. I've also heard mixed opinions on the higher output VTec engines - some people say they wear out a little faster? The price is also alot higher unless I go '99ish with a bit higher K's. However, they have all the bells and whistles and are fun to drive - as well as a good resale value. (PS: I know the '04's have 4-door, but they are a bit outta my price range for now ...but if you have some feedback on them, feel free to reply!) Is it worth the SI or is the DX-G just as good? 4. The DX-G seems like the Corolla's comparison but with a few more frills. I know very little about them tho except that they are a few $1000 more. Feedback needed! I thank all of you for your help!! Sorry for the crossposting and the long post! griffin 2005 Corolla B-Pack sounds like the best deal, but does not come with a sunroof. Another good choice is the 2000 EL which can be had with a sunroof and the 127 HP engine. Pars 98 Civic Hatch > I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around > $16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > griffin I will look into that. I'm not too impressed with the Integra lineup so I kinda just skipped over the Acura's altogether but I have noticed that the 1.7 EL's are in my price range. I also was not aware they had optional sunrooves (sp?). I will go look into those. Thanks! > 2005 Corolla B-Pack sounds like the best deal, but does not come with a sunroof. > Another good choice is the 2000 EL which can be had with a sunroof and the 127 [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > > > griffin The EL is simply a re-badged Civic that comes standard with the vtec engine. Pars > I will look into that. I'm not too impressed with the Integra lineup so I > kinda just skipped over the Acura's altogether but I have noticed that the [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > > > > > griffin More than a Civic... It comes with 4 wheel disc brakes, ABS is standard, side airbag standard, possiblity with perforated leather w/heated seats, automatic climate control and you can get a skirt package right now for 1200$ or so more. And sunroof. Adrian > The EL is simply a re-badged Civic that comes standard with the vtec > engine. [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] >> > > >> > > griffin > More than a Civic... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > right now for 1200$ or so more. > And sunroof. 2004 Vibe(base model, automatic): $13.5K after rebates. The trick then is to toss in the supercharger and turn it into an automatic version of the GT - faster than the GT and less $$ on insurance. Or just get one for $13.5K(13K with manual) - there's just no better econobox deal out there right now. Or... 2004 LeSabre Custom. No options - just a stock model. ABS, A/C, automatic, and so on - all standard. I added only the Touring Suspension, which is important. Comes with a CD radio already. It has traction control, a computer with a HUD (displays mph on the windshield) as well. Trip mileage, diagnostics, mpg, and so on - it's a SLICK computer system that you don't usually find on anything other than cars like Volvos and Lexus. Oh - it also gets 27mpg highway. 3500lbs, 210HP, and still gets small car highway mileage. LIST BASE TMV Total with Options and Delivery $27,050 $24,796 $25,091 Incentives & Rebates -$5,000 Customer Cash Adjusted True Market Value $20,091 That's suddenly worth considering. $20K for a car that's comparable to an Avalon and twice what a typical econobox is? $5K in rebates is a lot of repairs and gas. *note* - you know, I don't really like GM products much - I'm more of an IS300 Sportcross fan myself. But - my old LeSabre still runs. At 18 years old and 150K it still won't come close to actually dying. As much as I didn't want to admit it - the thing is actually a very reliable car. Lol. Only my old Volvo 240 actually cost me less to maintain. The new ones are very reliable as well - the engine is bulletproof. Probably one of the best engines ever made, in fact. Maintainence is actually LESS expensive than on a Camry or Accord V6 last I checked. Superb family car - really the only large car that GM makes that is a good choice. Way better than a Saturn. You are using US instead of Canadian prices. A LeSabre Custom is $34K in Canada. Even with rebates it will definitely cost more than $20K. However you can get a base Vibe for approximately $20K plus GST and PST. > > More than a Civic... > > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > checked. Superb family car - really the only large car that > GM makes that is a good choice. Way better than a Saturn. Or I can just get a B-pack Corolla Sport that has all of the bells and whistles. I wouldn't want a HUD anyway ...too complicated and if it ever broke it'd bankrupt me getting it fixed. And yea ...convert that to CDN $ and the prices are much different. > You are using US instead of Canadian prices. A LeSabre Custom is $34K in > Canada. Even with rebates it will definitely cost more than $20K. However [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > checked. Superb family car - really the only large car that > > GM makes that is a good choice. Way better than a Saturn. > You are using US instead of Canadian prices. A LeSabre Custom is $34K in > Canada. Even with rebates it will definitely cost more than $20K. However > you can get a base Vibe for approximately $20K plus GST and PST. True - that's US dollars. That's still going to be $20K USD for a new one, which is a great deal. The Vibe - yeah - you can't get a better value for $20K Can. >The Vibe - yeah - you can't >get a better value for $20K Can. Is the Vibe/Matrix REALLY that good? What features abt it are so good? Just curious.... I own a 2000 Mazda Protege ES and altho its been a great little car.... cant haul a THING in it. hence looking at a hatchback style vehicle but something with as good of gas milage as the Protege. >>The Vibe - yeah - you can't >>get a better value for $20K Can. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > looking at a hatchback style vehicle but something with > as good of gas milage as the Protege. It's a Corolla engine and underbody with a Subaru Forester type body on it. The seats fold flat as a truck bed and it has tie-down points everywhere. The entire rear cargo area is also covered in tough but attractive plastic coating, kind of like how the Element is - but not ugly like the Element. Actually useable to haul construction supplies and so on, and then it converts back into a family car. Half minivan, half stationwagon. It is the most ergonomically friendly car as far as useability in a wide variety of situations other than maybe a Forester. But it costs barely more than a Corolla. :) The AWD is kind of flaky, but the FWD version is great. I like the Vibe a bit more as the rear hach has a bit more clearance and GM has some nice interior touches that make it feel more like a Buick or Camry inside. It also comes with foglights and other goodies which most econoboxes don't offer. It feels to the Corolla like the Scion Tc feels to the Celica. It's obviously marketed as a better, more useable version of the older design. I'd be amazed if they didn't drop the Corolla entirely in a couple of years due to the Scion and Martix overlap. God I wish they offered the Scion here ...I wanna TDrive one of those soooo bad before I buy my C.Sport. griffin '97 Corolla SD '85 Jeep CJ7 > >>The Vibe - yeah - you can't > >>get a better value for $20K Can. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > older design. I'd be amazed if they didn't drop the Corolla > entirely in a couple of years due to the Scion and Martix overlap. >Oh - it also gets 27mpg highway. 3500lbs, 210HP, and still >gets small car highway mileage. Small cars should get significantly better than 27mpg.  Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. >>Oh - it also gets 27mpg highway. 3500lbs, 210HP, and still >>gets small car highway mileage. > > Small cars should get significantly better than 27mpg. Yet most don't - they have maybe 50-60hp less and weigh a thousand pounds less, plus have half the displacement, and maybe get 35mpg highway. GM builds the most fuel eficient engines for the power and displacement of anyone other than maybe the V6 in the Camry/Avalon. >>>Oh - it also gets 27mpg highway. 3500lbs, 210HP, and still >>>gets small car highway mileage. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >thousand pounds less, plus have half the displacement, and >maybe get 35mpg highway. All of the small cars that I've driven for more than one tank of fuel got more than 35mpg. A small non-sporty car that only got 27mpg would be pretty poor in fuel economy for that type of car. Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. Ya, my '97 Corolla SD gets an average of 37mpg city with a bit of highway ...note: this is imperial gallons (so roughly 44mpg US). > >>>Oh - it also gets 27mpg highway. 3500lbs, 210HP, and still > >>>gets small car highway mileage. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > fuel got more than 35mpg. A small non-sporty car that only got > 27mpg would be pretty poor in fuel economy for that type of car. In rec.autos.makers.honda griffin <gryffy@delthisshaw.ca> wrote: > Ya, my '97 Corolla SD gets an average of 37mpg city with a bit of highway > ...note: this is imperial gallons (so roughly 44mpg US). Isn't that backwards? Imperial 37mpg is 30mpg US. I thought it was IG * 1.2 = USG? I checked and it said the same thing here: http://gocanada.about.com/cs/miscshopping/ht/impgal2usgal.htm Altho be I could dyslexic severely just. ;p > In rec.autos.makers.honda griffin <gryffy@delthisshaw.ca> wrote: > > Ya, my '97 Corolla SD gets an average of 37mpg city with a bit of highway > > ...note: this is imperial gallons (so roughly 44mpg US). > > Isn't that backwards? Imperial 37mpg is 30mpg US. >I thought it was IG * 1.2 = USG? I checked and it said the same thing here: >http://gocanada.about.com/cs/miscshopping/ht/impgal2usgal.htm [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Isn't that backwards? Imperial 37mpg is 30mpg US. An Imperial gallon is bigger than a puny U.S. gallon. The conversion factor is 1.2009499. To convert from IG to US, multiply by that factor. To convert MPG (in IG) to MPG (in US), divide by that factor. This assumes we are talking U.S. statute miles, and not U.K. admiralty miles or such. Now converting dollars/gallon from the U.S. system to the Can. one, that is more difficult. H. Oh right ...miles over gallons means it's a division. Yep ...I'm dumb. Thanks for clearing that up. > >I thought it was IG * 1.2 = USG? I checked and it said the same thing here: > >http://gocanada.about.com/cs/miscshopping/ht/impgal2usgal.htm [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > H. In rec.autos.makers.honda griffin <gryffy@delthisshaw.ca> wrote: > I thought it was IG * 1.2 = USG? I checked and it said the same thing here: > http://gocanada.about.com/cs/miscshopping/ht/impgal2usgal.htm Right. If it took 1 Imperial Gallon to go 37 miles, it would take 1.2 US Gallons to go those same 37 miles. 37/1.2=30mpg. >> In rec.autos.makers.honda griffin <gryffy@delthisshaw.ca> wrote: >> > Ya, my '97 Corolla SD gets an average of 37mpg city with a bit of > highway >> > ...note: this is imperial gallons (so roughly 44mpg US). >> >> Isn't that backwards? Imperial 37mpg is 30mpg US. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5 I test drove the '04 Matrix and the only thing I didn't like was that there was no lumbar support in the seat. It really needed it. With that price range, have you considered the bigger brothers, Camry and Accord? You may sacrifice a little at the gas pumps, but you are adding a lot of size, and with children, a little more metal around you sounds like a better deal if something should hit you. If size is a major deal, look at the Toyota RAV4 and the Honda CRV and Honda Element. They should also be in that price range. Let us know what you decided to get Keith ' 99 Accord EX-L V6 > I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around > $16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > griffin I don't really need anything too big or powerful. I admit, I miss my Jeep alot just because of the freedom but now I need something compact and efficient. I'd love to get one of the new Accords but I can't really afford anything newer than '97-'98 with lower kilometers. I've also heard alot of complaints about Camry's as not being as cheap (repair-wise) or as reliable as the Corolla. The safety issue was kinda one reason I started looking at the Matrix line - they appear a bit bigger. I will definitely test-drive a Matrix for awhile tho before really considering it because comfortable seats are something I REALLY miss. The Saturn seats were sooo comfy believe-it-or-not. My Corolla seats are like wooden chairs ...;p Thanks for the input! > I test drove the '04 Matrix and the only thing I didn't like was that there > was no lumbar support in the seat. It really needed it. [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > > > griffin > I'm looking for honest and unbiased opinions. I'm posting this in Honda & > Toyota newsgroups and I know people in their respective ones no-doubt prefer > the company they are driving, but please be as impartial as possible. I only its a veritable love fest between toyota and honda owners. i think we are all mutually respectful of each other. if i didnt have a honda, id have a scion or matrix. > plan to buy one new car in the next 10-15 years and this will be it. Tell me > your gripes and your praises for any of the models you own(ed) above or have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > tell because they are relatively new but they seem OK? They may be a bit big > tho and I wonder about fuel consumption? Pricy, too, for the higher models. id go with the matrix. honda really doesnt make a decent hatch anymore, and a 4 door hatch is handy. reliability is on par with corollas/other toyotas, and fuel mileage isnt going to kill you. >I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around >$16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >I thank all of you for your help!! Sorry for the crossposting and the long >post! For your needs, and as a Honda err enthusiast, I'd say the Corolla - boring but reliable, durable and possibly closer to bullet-proof... and Honda is not offering anything to trump it now... like the superior DW suspension system they used to have - sad that. The old Civic SOHC Honda engine is umm, tired! If you can live with a 2-door hatch - we did with our kids back then with a Rabbit and Beetle as 2nd car - take a look at the Scion tC... a lot of car for the $$ if the price stands... and you get Toyota "build". Check out www.scionlife.com. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? Ya, that's two people who've suggested the Scion ...altho I have yet to see one here. Looks nice tho ...I'll ask my Toy dealer this weekend about them. Anyone here have any true values for MPG for the Matrix ...city and highway. Those "official" ratings are useless. Thanks again for the feedback everyone. > For your needs, and as a Honda err enthusiast, I'd say the Corolla - boring > but reliable, durable and possibly closer to bullet-proof... and Honda is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? Considering the Canadian tends to lean toward small cars, it's a shame that the Scion was not introduced to Canada. The xB seems like a very fuel efficient way to haul light cargo. Pars 98 DX Hatch > Ya, that's two people who've suggested the Scion ...altho I have yet to see > one here. Looks nice tho ...I'll ask my Toy dealer this weekend about them. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, > me?? > Considering the Canadian tends to lean toward small cars, it's a shame that the > Scion was not introduced to Canada. The xB seems like a very fuel efficient way > to haul light cargo. it rocks! i like the xA better- its like a 7/8ths scale matrix, but the xB does have some serious cargo area. theyre both based on the toyota echo platform, but the xB has a 9" stretch. > > Considering the Canadian tends to lean toward small cars, it's a shame > that the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > does have some serious cargo area. theyre both based on the toyota echo > platform, but the xB has a 9" stretch. Canada has the Echo Hatch which is similar to the xA (same as the European Yaris). Consider the Chevy Aevo seems like a knock off of the Echo Hatch, competition in the segment is going to be high. All we need is an xB that can be fitted with an extra row of seats and it should be a hot item. I know one of my friend who has 4 young kids and no car, would love it. I believe Honda has the 'Fit' which has 3 rows of seat. I wonder if they'll bring it across the ocean. All it takes is one manufacture to start a trend and all rest of the monkeys are right behind their tale. Pars Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer Reports they are as reliable as imports and they have more features than the cars you have named. Also Chrysler overbuilt capacity because of an initial run on the cars for the first 6 months and now they are highly discounted at $5k off in the states. They have extremely versatle interiors and relatively heavy and sturdy though gas mileage is mediocre. > I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around > $16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > griffin >Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer Reports >they are as reliable as imports and they have more features than the cars >you have named. Also Chrysler overbuilt capacity because of an initial run >on the cars for the first 6 months and now they are highly discounted at $5k >off in the states. They have extremely versatle interiors and relatively >heavy and sturdy though gas mileage is mediocre. Gawd...who would buy a PT Cruiser (ie Neon)? Sooooo cheap on the inside... Yuckkkkkkk Scott in Florida >>Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer >>Reports they are as reliable as imports and they have more features [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Scott in Florida Also, the "PiTy Crapper" has only been around for, what, 4 years? Let's see how it holds up in 7-10 years time, especially since it is mechanically a Neon (a proven crapbox). >>Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer >>Reports they are as reliable as imports and they have more features [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Scott in Florida Also, the "PiTy Crapper" has only been around for, what, 4 years? Let's see how it holds up in 7-10 years time, especially since it is mechanically a Neon (a proven crapbox). > >Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer Reports > >they are as reliable as imports and they have more features than the cars [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Scott in Florida Scott I agree , but the quality is not bad we see very very few problems with them. Brad > > Gawd...who would buy a PT Cruiser (ie Neon)? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Scott I agree , but the quality is not bad we see very very few problems > with them. they finally redesigned that head gasket? > > > Gawd...who would buy a PT Cruiser (ie Neon)? > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > they finally redesigned that head gasket? Actually yes and they just won't leak :( >>>Gawd...who would buy a PT Cruiser (ie Neon)? >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > they finally redesigned that head gasket? No. Chrysler also didn't fix their transmissions. You'd have to be a class-A fool to but anything from them other than a Viper or Wrangler - the only two good vehicles they make. > >Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer Reports > >they are as reliable as imports and they have more features than the cars [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sooooo cheap on the inside... Obviously you've never been inside one. You would miss the Toyota rattles. The PTCrusiser has very little to do with the Neon and I would agree that the Neon is crap unless you need the biggest car for the money. It then may have some value to someone. Visit your Chrysler dealer and drive a PTCruiser and check out the repair record in Consumer Reports. It is an excellent car except a bit heavy and gas mileage is mediocre. Very nice and versatile interior.... far better than the Corolla. > >Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer Reports > >they are as reliable as imports and they have more features than the cars [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Scott in Florida > Have you considered a Chrysler PTCrusier. According to Consumer > Reports they are as reliable as imports and they have more features [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > extremely versatle interiors and relatively heavy and sturdy though > gas mileage is mediocre. i wish you were right but compared too honda and toyota chryslers are just cheap unreliable crap with lots of rattles and louzy expensive dealership marcel Hi, Don't forget the 99/00 Civic SiR model. They only come with a dohc b16a2, 5 spd with pw/pl/pm/psunroof, a/c, heated side mirrors, keyless, abs. They sell for a pretty penny. Word of advice don't look at any SiR models for less than $15,000. Usually the cheap ones are accident/theft recovery rebuilts. Honestly I like the Corolla. I've always hear great reviews on it. Chris > I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around > $16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > griffin Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty much set on getting a 2003-2005 Corolla Sport B-pack right now. I just need another $10,000CDN :) Anyone have any gripes or complaints about these cars? Thanks! griffin '97 Toyota Corolla SD '85 Jeep CJ-7 > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > > > griffin Corolla, definitely. I rented one of these for several days 2 years ago. Fast, roomy, comfortable, great gas mileage. The Civic is, unfortunately, just a "cheap secretary's car" as one car publication described it (no offense to secretaries, God bless them). But the Civic is just no where near the refinement standard set by the Accord. As a daily driver, I know that I could live with a Corolla. I wouldn't say that about a Civic despite my Honda brand loyalty. Unfortunately, my take is that Toyota dealers on average are ranked even lower than Honda dealers for satisfaction. JM. Ya, I actually am going to be shopping from now until February for one. Of the four Toyota dealerships here, one of them is so shifty I wouldn't even consider letting them look at a tricycle because they'd probably tell me it needed $2000 in repairs. There's one here that doesn't seem too bad; however, I'm going to take the next six months to try and locate one privately so as to avoid being raped. As for repair shops ...I just hope anything that wants to break does so before warranty expiration ...otherwise I just have to hope that it maintains it's Corolla-Reliability factor. I'm scared to take them to any joeblow repair shop and even more scared to take it to the Toyota repair shop - not because of the lack of quality repairs but because I don't have time for a second job to pay for them. griffin '97 Corolla SD '85 Jeep CJ7 > Corolla, definitely. I rented one of these for several days 2 years > ago. Fast, roomy, comfortable, great gas mileage. The Civic is, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > JM. > I'm looking to purchase a new(er) car at the end of summer for around > $16-22,000 CDN ($12-16,500 US) and have been looking at these four options: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > child and A/C is kinda needed. My Corolla is also very uncomfy and not > suitable for long drives. Okay - you have kid(s? in a few years?) > In my new car, I want some frills, like keyless entry, pw, sunroof would be > AWESOME!, cruise control, etc. Price is also a factor - I'm a full-time dad [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > +30C to -30C (-22F to 86F) so heat and coolness are big factors as well as > handling in ice/snow/rain. The best option is a Matrix. You get a Corolla drivetrain with a mini-suv body on it. Bang-for-the buck, it's the best option out there* > I'm looking for honest and unbiased opinions. I'm posting this in Honda & > Toyota newsgroups and I know people in their respective ones no-doubt prefer > the company they are driving, but please be as impartial as possible. I only > plan to buy one new car in the next 10-15 years and this will be it. Tell me > your gripes and your praises for any of the models you own(ed) above or have > heard about. All comments appreciated!! Ah. This may change things a bit. 10-15 year reliability is - well, that requires a different type of car like a Camry or Avalon or LeSabre or Accord V6 or... Econoboxes aren't designed to last much more than 10 years before they become regular residents at the local repair shop. If you want a family car that will last 15 years, get a stock LeSabre. It has all of the features stock as a loaded Corolla, plus ABS and pther goodies. With rebates, it's just about $21-$22K and is actually a decent car. A stock Crown Vic would be my second choice as you can also get one for $20K after rebates and they are massively overbuilt for fleet use. For personal transportation, they work very well. Just don't get a used one - they are 90%+ abused fleet vehicles. The Avalon is also a superb car that's very VERY simmilar to the LeSabre, but Toyota isn't offering the deals like GM is, so it drops to third place. $5K is a big deal. Still a MUCH MUCH MUCH better car than a Corolla or Matrix can ever hope to be. Or, just get a car for 5-8 years or so. That's a nice econobox. > My current views are: > 1. The Matrix seems very practical for everything. Reliability is hard to > tell because they are relatively new but they seem OK? They may be a bit big > tho and I wonder about fuel consumption? Pricy, too, for the higher models. Then I have a solution for you. The same exact car is sold under the GM badge. Same assembly line, same engine. Bit different interior features(minor) - but - GM's amazing financing and rebates. This drops the price of the car down to just over what an *ECHO* costs. The Pontical Vibe is the best deal out there right now. Toyota quality, GM pricing. :) But - again, it's not a true 15 year solution. You need a bigger, tougher built car for that. |
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