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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2004Chipped Crankshaft Pulley
I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together, I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking? A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few salvage yards for less, if need be. > I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's > crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few > salvage yards for less, if need be. I broke a chunk off the pulley of a Toyota Tercel and it was OK. Your car is old so the damage probably isn't significant compared to general aging problems. Somebody might weld it and grind it into shape for about $20. >I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's >crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a >chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking? I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings. >A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few >salvage yards for less, if need be. I'm not sure about relative sizes but, rather than getting the exact same pulley, it'd be worth looking for a replacement with a 50mm hex socket in it... *if* there's one available in the right diameter. Then you'll be able to use a pulley holder tool in future. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings. Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping material as on the Accords of the same year. Eric > George Macdonald wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping > material as on the Accords of the same year. Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about. I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder tool can be had for under $30. For posterity-- I'm going to try to fabricate a better tool in the next few days, along the lines of what Eric has described in the past. I tried the two high grade, fine thread bolts (with nuts) in the pulley periphery holes and then jamming various bars/pipes between them in the suspension, like that shown at http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html , but the pulley on the car pictured there is a little different. I got too much 'play' with the bolt setup, and so while proceeding slowly things kept slipping at the pulley. (The web sites's two ten-inch long, 1/2 inch extensions, supported by a jack with a long breaker bar and then a five-foot pipe extension on the breaker bar, worked well, though. I should easily get the necessary torque, once I get the pulley secured.) >> George Macdonald wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping >> material as on the Accords of the same year. Sure about that? Just because you can't see any rubber band doesn't mean it's not there. >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current >pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot >of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about. >I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder >tool can be had for under $30. It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a reference here. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote Caroline wrote snip > >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering > >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a > reference here. http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Honda-Crankshaft-Pulley-Holder---SIRHO60 .HTML Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site: http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/ConcertoManual/62sk301/5-26.pdf and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page): http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/ConcertoManual/62sk301/5-27.pdf My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the lip, if you can picture this. I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My calculations say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off again (or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's design, more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more. I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after bending one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this is going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I don't know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad nauseam... I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs. :-) (No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt getting oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?) >"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote >Caroline wrote [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/ConcertoManual/62sk301/5-27.pdf Now that *is* interesting - never seen such a tool in a U.S. Honda manual but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger mentioned? >My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering >belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad >nauseam... In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the valve gear flapping around. >I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys >with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I >dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?) Sorry I don't know but what I do know is that there were some model years which had the hex socket in the pulley and the info on when it appeared is vague/imprecise and sometimes wrong. If you look at the Schley tool models and years shown here: http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=629 it says that the 1.8L Integra engine didn't have the hex fitting till '94 and yet, to my great relief, my '92 had it. If someone knows the relative sizes of '91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard search. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote Caroline wrote > >> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the > >> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > but of course, I've umm, missed a few... anybody else seen this bugger > mentioned? I should have noted that I am not 100% sure these are the right tools for my 1991 Civic. The Concerto engine seems to be the same as the 91 Civic's. The tools shown at each of the two sites look like they work the same way. I know for sure I don't have any 50 mm hex setup, as I've seen in drawings of other crankshaft pulleys. I know a special tool is appropriate and have seen no other than those shown at the links above. Chilton's doesn't mention this tool, either. I should have also added that, as I look at this tool, I don't know that I could get the necessary torque even with it. It really doesn't give me much more hope than the tool I'm in the process of fabricating now. Another nudge in the direction of researching interchangeability of crank pulleys. snip > >I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a > >serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. snip > In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is > specific advice to *not* use an impact wrench. It's something which has > always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the > valve gear flapping around. I remember this coming up before. IIRC I have seen this warning at a few sites (not searching for it; just happened on it). But so many people seemed to ignore it, or IIRC we made some distinction between an impact hammer and an air wrench, that I figured... But perhaps I figure wrong. One more reason to hold back on an impact wrench. > >I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys > >with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > '91 vs. '92 Civic pulleys, that might give a starting point for a junkyard > search. What's killing me also is online drawings don't even give me a clue. E.g. at Majestic's site, the drawing http://tinyurl.com/23qjb of the crankshaft pulley is not accurate, shape-wise. The circumferential holes are actually *outside* the circumference of the power steering belt wheel. That is, the holes sit on a larger diameter than the diameter of the power steering belt wheel. Fortunately I know of one salvage yard that has parts like this literally on shelves in a huge warehouse. They can easily pull them down so I can take some measurements. Or they might even know if this is do-able. This is recreation for me at this point. I'm going to button my car back up today, drive it to see how my "JB Weld" fix works, and reflect on this whole pulley holder problem for a week or so. Not down about it. It's mostly avocational at this point. Of course, if my timing belt fails next month because of this tiny leak near/at the front crank seal, I'll be eating my words pronto. :-) Thanks as always for sharing your pithy experience, George. On 6/7/04 2:17 AM, in article d728c05c8n2i1t3msjo708aj13mgl0d16n@4ax.com, >> "George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote >> Caroline wrote [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > always bothered me - the thought of the bearings getting pounded and the > valve gear flapping around. They only caution not to use the impact wrench when re-installing. No problem using it to remove the bolt. >> I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft >> pulleys [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? >On 6/7/04 2:17 AM, in article d728c05c8n2i1t3msjo708aj13mgl0d16n@4ax.com, >> In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >They only caution not to use the impact wrench when re-installing. No >problem using it to remove the bolt. They also show the use of a holding tool and torque wrench to remove the bolt - read it how you want. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? On 6/7/04 11:34 PM, in article 1obac051stp6gmi5r1cp6or95k141qrf6b@4ax.com, >> On 6/7/04 2:17 AM, in article d728c05c8n2i1t3msjo708aj13mgl0d16n@4ax.com, >>> In recent Honda manuals, where they show the holding tool, there is [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? I have heard a number of reasons why it should be OK to use the impact wrench to remove it, but not to torque it. Honda doesn't give a reason. My hypotheses is that you not use the impact wrench to torque it down for fear a cutting torch will be needed to get it off the next time. Not having the impact wrench, I've executed that picture on the '96 Odyssey and the '96 Integra when removing the bolt. Fun to watch from a safe distance, especially on the Odyssey. You need a hardened impact socket, extension and breaker bar (lesser stuff will simply break). All standard sockets fit into the center of the tool. That was not an issue. You do want a deep well socket though. I used a jack stand for a fulcrum, a 4 foot piece of gas pipe on the breaker bar for leverage and a second hardened breaker bar on the "tool" which was allowed to brace itself against the frame to immobilize the crank shaft. The part that was fun to watch was the hardened socket extension twisting a full 90 degrees before bolt broke loose. I still don't understand why something (socket, extension, breaker bar, etc.) didn't break. If I had access to an impact wrench, I certainly would have used it. Retightening afterward with a torque wrench is an anti-climax. That 181 ft-lbs of torque to put it back (less on the Integra) is no big deal at all compared to taking it off. > My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power > steering belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I > dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?) OK, it seems that you have a different crank pulley than the one that I have on my '88 Civic. Mine does not have the extra lip for the power steering belt. It only has capacity for the alternator and AC belts. Both of these belt wheels (or whatever you wish to call them) are about the same diameter. The AC belt wheel has a nice flat lip on it. The tool I made for my car didn't damage the pulley in any appreciable way. If it were my unit, I would buy the appropriate holding tool from the etoolcart website and replace the damaged pulley with one of the correct design for your car from a wrecking yard. I don't know for certain, but it could be that the nose of the crankshaft is different on cars that used the later pulley design with the 50mm hex. I do know that on a '90 Accord (which uses the later pulley design) the keyway for the woodruf key is quite different than it is on my Civic. This difference would likely make using a later pulley impossible. Eric > Caroline wrote: snip > > I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft > > pulleys with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > OK, it seems that you have a different crank pulley than the one that I have > on my '88 Civic. Now I'm seeing Majestic's pulley sizes vary within the 1988 Civic's. Some of the part numbers match that for my 1991 Civic's pulley. some do not. The little sketches of the pulleys all appear the same(!) > Mine does not have the extra lip for the power steering > belt. It only has capacity for the alternator and AC belts. Both of these [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > different than it is on my Civic. This difference would likely make using a > later pulley impossible. Eric, What you say re interchangeability sounds like a good start. I'll try to confirm it. Re getting the proper tool: My only concern is whether even with the correct tool I could get the torque needed, as I just posted to George. Hopefully I'm just not seeing all the details of using it yet. The dealer must have a technique. I'm tempted to buy a second, used crankshaft pulley and then try a modified version of your tool. If I bust the old pulley completely, I'll get the correct pulley holder tool and somehow figure out how to get the torque needed with it. Then chalk this all up to "education." Thanks much for posting this. > I'm tempted to buy a second, used crankshaft pulley and then try a > modified version of your tool. If I bust the old pulley completely, I'll > get the correct pulley holder tool and somehow figure out how to get the > torque needed with it. Then chalk this all up to "education." The pulley holding tool at the etoolcart site looks very much like the one that's illustrated in the manual. However, the honda manual also specifies that there's a special socket that's to be used with this tool, http://tinyurl.com/3bbuk. I didn't see this socket available at the etoolcart site. It might be worth your while to call them and inquire about the socket. It could be that they intend for you to use your own socket. For that to work, you'll need to know the inside diameter of their tool and find a socket that will work. Eric >> I'm tempted to buy a second, used crankshaft pulley and then try a >> modified version of your tool. If I bust the old pulley completely, I'll [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >For that to work, you'll need to know the inside diameter of their tool and >find a socket that will work. It's my impression that's just the socket to use with the holding tool and which gives a little extra depth to get at the bolt head. I'm sure you can use either just a deep socket or regular socket+extension on a breaker bar - get the impact strength socket and/or extension type if you think it'll be better and flex less under torque. I have the Honda 50mm hex tool and handle and it doesn't require any special socket - it's quite flush with the pulley face. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? > It's my impression that's just the socket to use with the holding tool Correct... > and which gives a little extra depth to get at the bolt head. Not entirely. The socket fits through the center part of the holding tool and functions as a fulcrum allowing the tool to lock the pulley in place. In essence, the socket is performing two jobs, i.e., it forms a second pin in the tool similar to the outer bolt that I used in the tool that I made for my crankshaft pulley (http://tinyurl.com/2x432) and also allows you to loosen the pulley bolt. The Honda service manual even states that some molybdenum grease should be applied to the socket thereby suggesting that the clearance between the holding tool and the socket is important (allowing the socket to turn while under the friction from acting as a holding pin). > I'm sure you can use either just a deep socket or regular > socket+extension on a breaker bar - get the impact strength socket and/or > extension type if you think it'll be better and flex less under torque. > I have the Honda 50mm hex tool and handle and it doesn't require any > special socket - it's quite flush with the pulley face. Correct. However, the two pulley holding tools work in different ways. Having the tool flush with the pulley face, although important due to clearance limitations, is not relevant since the tool for the early pulleys uses pins to lock into the pulley. A deep impact socket may indeed work. However, the socket's length and diameter may be important in order for the tool to function efficiently. Eric >> It's my impression that's just the socket to use with the holding tool > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >the clearance between the holding tool and the socket is important (allowing >the socket to turn while under the friction from acting as a holding pin). OK - yes, the Honda tool does appear to have a socket which is a precision fit in the holding tool which acts as a boss for the socket. >> I'm sure you can use either just a deep socket or regular >> socket+extension on a breaker bar - get the impact strength socket and/or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >However, the socket's length and diameter may be important in order for the >tool to function efficiently. I haven't seen one of those pulleys in a while so I don't recall how well it's shaped to accept the end of the SIR special tool - could be nasty if it slipped out with 300lb/ft applied.:-) It'd be interesting to hear what SIR has to say on the subject of the external diameter of the socket. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? > Caroline wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > For that to work, you'll need to know the inside diameter of their tool and > find a socket that will work. I looked at the drawing at the UK site more closely and see what you mean. I also read George's and your subsequent posts. If I still needed the retail tool, I'd likely inquire about the diameter of the socket hole's dimensions. Onto the better news. :-) Yesterday I had an idea for modifying Eric's version of the tool so that the tool's steel bar does not touch the power steering pulley lip. It consists of Eric's design plus four lock rings and some rubber hose on each bolt. The lock rings and hose act as spacers and a protector so the bolts don't impose a force on the power steering pulley's lip. From right to left as one is standing at the front of the car, looking down, it's: 7/16" (pulley holding tool) bolt head, 4 lock rings, rubber hose over 7/16" bolt, crankshaft pulley, 7/16" nut. I didn't let the 2 foot steel bar push against the suspension or car's frame. Instead, I let the non-pulley end push against a pile of four 1/2" plywood boards on the ground. With a 5 foot extension pipe over the 1.5 foot long breaker bar, I proceeded slowly, intermittently checking to see that the bolts weren't pressing against the lip of the power steering pulley. They did not. After applying I estimate about half my weight, the pulley bolt broke free easily. I heard that huge, loud metallic crack that everyone describes. Some dust rose. I checked for damage; none was evident. I pushed with the 18" breaker bar alone, and sure enough the bolt was free. I estimate it took around 300 ft-lbs. of torque to break the bolt free. I did apply a little PB Blaster penetrating oil to the pulley bolt two days ago. The last time the bolt was removed was three years ago. It looks in good shape. JB Weld seems to be holding the chunk that chipped off the other day together fine. I did find a salvage yard that is pretty sure they have a 91 Civic crankshaft pulley for $35. I am still thinking of replacing the pulley and still have some concerns about the harmonic balancer. Had an amusing word from a dealer yesterday morning. I called Dealer Parts to see if by chance they had the retail pulley holding tool. They said no and then added that my troubles might be that the bolt is a left-hand thread. Ha. I said nothing, in the name of good relations, or because dealers are what they are. For the archives again: Early 1990s Honda Civic (or all Honda?) crankshaft pulley bolts are right-hand threaded = right tight and left loose). Total cost of my 1991 Civic LX 1.5 liter crankshaft pulley holding tool was under $10 as follows: One 3/8" thick, 2' flat steel bar (a surveying stake, technically), Lowe's = $3.27 Two 7/16" diameter, 3" long, Gr. 8 fine thread bolts, True Value Hardware = $3.50 (or thereabouts) Two 7/16" diameter, Gr. 8 fine thread nuts, True Value Hardware = $1.50 (or thereabouts) Eight 7/16" diameter Gr. 8 lock washers, True Value Hardware = $1.04 Three inches of 1/2 " ID, 3/4" OD 200 PSI Goodyear hose, Lowe's = $0.50 (or thereabouts) As Eric has described, drill the 7/16" diameter holes in the steel bar at one end, 3 inches apart. Snug up the nuts on the bolts as much as possible. There was still a little play when I started torquing but to no adverse effect, and the play will help assemble everything. I strongly recommend using two high quality 1/2 inch diameter, 10-inch long extension drives and a breaker bar at least 1.5 foot long, supported by a jack, as shown in part in the 4th photo from the top at site http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html . Have strong, long pipe you can put over the breaker bar to give yourself a longer torque arm without risking life and limb. Of course I had to buy various new tools for this project, like a 7/16" titanium-coated drill bit ($6 at Autozone) and a 17 mm 1/2 inch drive deep socket ($3.50 at Pep Boys) and the usual minor wastage purchases of bolts, nuts, tools that don't work (few bucks) while I figured out how to make this all work. (BTW, I ran some numbers for the stress on a 3/8" drive setup. Don't do it. Breaking something is highly likely.) I am delighted with this success. Thanks especially to Eric, George, Curly, E. Meyer, Lex, Tom, Tegger and others who offered their experience on this matter over the last few months. Also, thanks to Gene Blanchard for his web site (link above). Onto the seals and various and sundry maintenance around the cam and crankshafts. [snip] > Onto the seals and various and sundry maintenance around the cam and > crankshafts. Great news, By the way, the seals can be annoying to replace especially when the factory seal drivers are not at hand. I've found that I can use some large "machine washers" as seal drivers to tap the seal into the bore. The washers go between the seal and my punch and protect the seal from being damaged. The other trick is to cut a piece of plastic from the side of a pop bottle to make a sleeve about 3" x 4". The sleeve is wrapped around the seal journal on the crank and then seal is pushed over the sleeve into its bore. You can remove the sleeve once you get the seal roughly half way into the bore. Using the sleeve is important since it prevents the inner lip of the seal from hanging up and getting folded over which can ruin the seal. A light coat of grease goes on the inner lip of the seal and a thin coat of ultra gray silicone goes on the outer lip. Good luck. Eric > Caroline wrote: > > Onto the seals and various and sundry maintenance around the cam and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > light coat of grease goes on the inner lip of the seal and a thin coat of > ultra gray silicone goes on the outer lip. Good luck. Thanks, Eric. I have been seeing some cautions about this; the tools that are sold for this; and the plastic pop bottle sleeve (maybe posted before by you) and washer remedies. All are going into my notes. Natually I don't have a good picture of the "guts" of the job yet, not having laid hands on them yet but instead working from a lot of online drawings and Chilton drawings. For example, with the help of Majestic Honda, I think I just figured out this morning that the front crank seal is also known as the oil pump front seal. (The crankshaft and oil pump shaft are actually one in the same? I know, doh... ) Item 22 at http://tinyurl.com/3cuzs ? That right? (I found the camshaft seal.) Pretty sure I will replace the tensioner too, as Googling turns up the suggestion to do it about every other timing belt change. Other folks do say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," but I lean towards conservatism on this item, overall from my reading. Also, one shop in town I respect says they replace it every other time. > (The crankshaft and oil pump shaft are actually one in the same? I > know, doh... ) Item 22 at http://tinyurl.com/3cuzs ? That right? (I found > the camshaft seal.) Yes, that's it. > Pretty sure I will replace the tensioner too, as Googling turns up the > suggestion to do it about every other timing belt change. Other folks do > say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," but I lean towards conservatism on > this item, overall from my reading. Also, one shop in town I respect says > they replace it every other time. Every other time for a tensioner bearing might be ok. Some shops do them every time erring on the conservative side. Consider that a comeback after a timing belt job for a noisy tensioner bearing is quite bad for the shop. The cost of the bearing is small compared to the lost time and unhappy customer from having to go back in to replace it later. Often times, a tensioner bearing will not make noise with an old belt but once a new, properly tensioned belt is installed it can began to sing. Evaluating tensioner bearings can be tricky. My rules are as follows, if it spins freely like an old skateboard wheel, i.e., keeps on spinning, or makes the slightest bit of noise when rocked back and forth while spinning, then it's time for a new one. Eric > Every other time for a [timing belt] tensioner bearing might be ok. Some shops do them > every time erring on the conservative side. Consider that a comeback after > a timing belt job for a noisy tensioner bearing is quite bad for the shop. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > slightest bit of noise when rocked back and forth while spinning, then it's > time for a new one. This is in my notes. Thanks much. :-) This has been a great thread to follow because I'm struggling with the pulley bolt on my 95 accord right now. I don't have the option to rig up a holding mechanism as previously described, there are no holes in the crank pulley. I've tried liquid wrench and banging away with an impact wrench (rated to 400 ft-lbs, man what are they feeding those robots in japan!). No good. BTW, I talked with a service technician at the dealer and they use the impact wrench for removal all of the time. The holding tool is a last resort. I may just try to locate a bigger impact wrench, but it might come down to getting the holding tool. So, does anybody know if that tool that's always there on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=24819429 97&category=43994&sspagename=WDVW) is a piece of junk, or what? > > Every other time for a [timing belt] tensioner bearing might be ok. Some > shops do them [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > This is in my notes. Thanks much. :-) > This has been a great thread to follow because I'm struggling with the > pulley bolt on my 95 accord right now. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=24819429 > 97&category=43994&sspagename=WDVW) is a piece of junk, or what? What size is your engine? How many cylinders? Wagon or Sedan? The above Ebay link says the tool is a 55 mm hex. I am seeing commercially-available tools for 1990s Honda Accords that are 50 mm and 55 mm. 55 mm: http://www.bargaintools4u.com/c/Crowbars/Alltrade_648796_Honda_Crankcase_Pulley_ Removal_Tool_B0000TMLWQ.htm 50 mm: http://www.sirtools.com/honda.htm , third photo from top, tool HO 50. (I think I've seen this 50 mm tool for $25+shipping at other sites. Let me know if you don't find it for this little. I just google for {Honda harmonic pulley tool} and a lot of sites come up. Also some clever guy(s) here have made these tools welding together pipe fittings and scrap iron.) Ideally you can jack up the right front of your car, take off the wheel, remove the splashguard, and take a measurement to be sure. If you decide not to go the impact tool route, I think you'd probably want to rig up a breaker bar to go into the hex tool and have this breaker bar push against the ground. Then you'd use a couple of ten-inch high quality, 1/2 inch extensions and a 1/2 inch deep socket on the 19(?) mm pulley bolt itself, with a second, long breaker bar (1.5 to 2 feet). You want the extensions so you have space to do the torquing, well away from the car frame. An ordinary car jack supports the extensions so the torque you apply is applied as fully as possible to the pulley bolt. The photo at http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sp60100.html seems a little misleading, as it doesn't show the extensions on the pulley bolt. I can't believe any person could easily break the bolt free without a huge extension on the breaker bar. I'm sure you'll get a lot of other responses. > > This has been a great thread to follow because I'm struggling with the > > pulley bolt on my 95 accord right now. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > So, does anybody know if that tool that's always there on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=24819429 > > 97&category=43994&sspagename=WDVW) is a piece of junk, or what? > > What size is your engine? How many cylinders? Wagon or Sedan? 2.2, 4, Wagon > The above Ebay link says the tool is a 55 mm hex. > > I am seeing commercially-available tools for 1990s Honda Accords that are 50 mm > and 55 mm. > > 55 mm: http://www.bargaintools4u.com/c/Crowbars/Alltrade_648796_Honda_Crankcase_Pulley_ > Removal_Tool_B0000TMLWQ.htm This is the same as the one on ebay, but 5 bucks more and minus the extension. Looks like I would need another breaker bar for the tool shown at bargaintools4u. > Ideally you can jack up the right front of your car, take off the wheel, remove > the splashguard, and take a measurement to be sure. 55 mm is definetely the right tool. I have the shop manual for my car. > If you decide not to go the impact tool route, ... I was reading another thread in this group and noted that somebody already came up with my latest idea. Find a mecahnic with a big impact wrench to break it loose and slip him a tenner! > The photo at http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sp60100.html seems a little > misleading, as it doesn't show the extensions on the pulley bolt. I can't > believe any person could easily break the bolt free without a huge extension on > the breaker bar. Yeah right.. just slip the old 1/2" drive rachet in there crack it loose. No problem :). > I'm sure you'll get a lot of other responses. So you think that tool on ebay is a joke? > "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote pjohnson > > > So, does anybody know if that tool that's always there on ebay > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=24819429 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > 55 mm: http://www.bargaintools4u.com/c/Crowbars/Alltrade_648796_Honda_Crankcase_Pulley_ > > Removal_Tool_B0000TMLWQ.htm > > This is the same as the one on ebay, but 5 bucks more and minus the > extension. I agree. Also, dunno if you checked, but it appears both the Ebay sellers and bargaintools want $10 for shipping. > Looks like I would need another breaker bar for the tool shown at > bargaintools4u. I agree about the breaker bar. From the Ebay photo, I estimate the Ebay wrench is about a foot long. For my 91 Civic LX, I had the left front supported by the lowest setting of a jackstand. My home-made crankshaft pulley holding tool was 2 feet long and attached not at the center. I still ended up stacking four or so 1/2 inch plywood pieces on the ground for the tool's end to rest on, to get the optimal resisting torque. I am also keeping in mind that I would rather keep everything at TDC when I go to actually remove the timing belt. Maybe that's not a big deal but I don't want to have to rotate the pulley away from TDC to get the bolt freed. I don't know if you could find and slide a pipe over one end of the Ebay wrench to extend it a bit, if need be, so it pushes against the ground. I think you might have more maneuverability with a breaker bar set up. > > Ideally you can jack up the [oops, LEFT] front of your car, take off the wheel, > remove > > the splashguard, and take a measurement to be sure. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > came up with my latest idea. Find a mecahnic with a big impact wrench to > break it loose and slip him a tenner! Worth a try. :-) > > The photo at http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sp60100.html seems a little > > misleading, as it doesn't show the extensions on the pulley bolt. I can't [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > So you think that tool on ebay is a joke? I don't know. For one, I'd email the Ebay seller and ask if he made this tool himself or what, because you don't see anything like it available commercially. (At least, I didn't see any wrench like this available commercially.) A few other things: The seller doesn't seem to give the item's location, listing only "Cobra Heaven, U.S." That's not usual. People want to know from where an item is being shipped. Then too he has a couple of negative reviews (but among 96% positive reviews). If you haven't already, maybe you should read his rebuttals to these negative reviews... Then there's the Ebay tool's shape and dimensions. Overall, I'd be a little less enthused about rolling the dice on this item than I would a lot of others. But that's just me. (I've bought from E-bay maybe three times in the past year or so.) I suppose you know you can also keep checking Ebay for the tool. Pickings are a little slim right now, but I've seen a few of the 50 or 55 mm tools come up in the last few weeks. (Never saw my 91 Honda Civic's pulley tool, though.) I thought they tended to run around $15 to $35. I see the 95 Accords have at least two different pulley sizes (one for the four cylinder and another for the V-6). I thought maybe the V-6 pulley got the larger hex size. But yours is the smaller engine, and you say your manual lists the 55 mm hex size. George M. said he's only seen the 50 mm hex size in the service manual. Maybe they're one in the same, with the 55 mm hex size being an outside hex measurement. I'm baffled on this point. > > > The above Ebay link says the tool is a 55 mm hex. > > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > 55 mm is definetely the right tool. I have the shop manual for my car. Oops! I just looked at my manual again and realized that it is 50 mm. > > > The photo at http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sp60100.html seems a little > > > misleading, as it doesn't show the extensions on the pulley bolt. I can't > > > believe any person could easily break the bolt free without a huge > > extension on > > > the breaker bar. That link above seems to be the best price, all the googling in the world turns up the same tool from the same folks. Must be the way to go. > For one, I'd email the Ebay seller and ask if he made this tool himself or what, > because you don't see anything like it available commercially. (At least, I > didn't see any wrench like this available commercially.) I have emailed him to see if he has a 50 mm version. > I see the 95 Accords have at least two different pulley sizes (one for the four > cylinder and another for the V-6). I thought maybe the V-6 pulley got the larger > hex size. But yours is the smaller engine, and you say your manual lists the 55 > mm hex size. George M. said he's only seen the 50 mm hex size in the service > manual. George is right, I was wrong :( > Maybe they're one in the same, with the 55 mm hex size being an outside hex > measurement. Doubt it. > I'm baffled on this point. Sorry I mis lead you! "pjohnson" <news@thejohnsonabode.com> wrote C wrote > > > > The above Ebay link says the tool is a 55 mm hex. > > > > > > > > I am seeing commercially-available tools for 1990s Honda Accords that > > > > are 50 mm and 55 mm. snip > Oops! I just looked at my manual again and realized that it is 50 mm. > > > > > The photo at http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sp60100.html snip > That link above seems to be the best price, all the googling in the world > turns up the same tool from the same folks. Must be the way to go. Right around $40 (not including shipping) is the best price I saw commercially, so yes, I suppose the above link is probably about as good as any right now. Non-commercially, I thought I saw one just like the one at the link above for around $33 at Ebay yesterday, but it seems to have been sold. The 50 mm tool does come up a lot on Ebay. It might be worth checking Ebay regularly for a week or so. Still a bit of a mystery why the Ebay tool you found and the other site ($24.99 tool) I posted say 55 mm. For a savings of maybe $15, I'd be tempted to try to contact the seller and ask them to measure the inside hex span of Alltrade tool #648796, http://www.tools-r-us.biz/h/Honda/Alltrade_648796_Honda_Crankcase_Pul_B0000TMLWQ .htm (among other sites) and see what gives. > Then you'd use a couple of ten-inch high quality, 1/2 > inch extensions and a 1/2 inch deep socket on the 19(?) mm pulley bolt > itself, with a second, long breaker bar (1.5 to 2 feet). You want the > extensions so you have space to do the torquing, well away from the car > frame. An ordinary car jack supports the extensions so the torque you > apply is applied as fully as possible to the pulley bolt. The use of twenty inches of extension isn't a real great idea in my mind. You're actually going to lose a lot of torque that could be applied to the bolt. Instead, a considerable (and unquantified) amount of your effort will go into simply twisting the extensions much like a torsion spring. Eric > Caroline wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > bolt. Instead, a considerable (and unquantified) amount of your effort will > go into simply twisting the extensions much like a torsion spring. The torque applied at one end must equal that applied at the other. No torque is "lost." Same idea as pushing/pulling on an ordinary spring at one end. For static equilibrium, the other end experiences the exact same magnitude of force, regardless of the compression/extension of the spring. Physics/Statics/Newton's Third Law. The only possible concern is exceeding the elastic strength of the drive extension material. As long as one is using 1/2-inch extension drives, the torque applied in this instance is insufficient to do so. As I wrote, a jack should be used to support the extensions at their end outside the car. The jack acts as a fulcrum point. This further minimizes stress in the extension drives. >>>Then you'd use a couple of ten-inch high quality, 1/2 >>>inch extensions and a 1/2 inch deep socket on the 19(?) mm pulley bolt [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the car. The jack acts as a fulcrum point. This further minimizes stress in the > extension drives. eric may not be putting it in the terms you want, but long extensions /are/ problematic because of wind-up. if you are undoing the bolt, the stored energy of the twisted extension suddenly releasing can cause it to jump. this can cause the socket to disengage the bolt head with damage, or cause the operator to slip & injure themselves. same with retorquing. bolts often have a "notchy" tightening pattern, and a long extension makes it much more difficult to measure whether you're tightening against a notch or whether you really have correct torque. hence the [not scientifically correct but "useful" description of] "loss" of torque. clearly, if you have no choice, use the long extension, but shorter is better. or use 3/4". > >>Caroline wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >>>frame. An ordinary car jack supports the extensions so the torque you > >>>apply is applied as fully as possible to the pulley bolt. snip > long extensions > /are/ problematic because of wind-up. if you are undoing the bolt, the > stored energy of the twisted extension suddenly releasing can cause it > to jump. I agree people should be alert to some kind of a jump, but I suspect chances are they won't even notice it. I'm trying to get the mechanical properties of the (Molybdenum?) steel that Craftsman, for one, uses with their extensions. Maybe I'll run some numbers on the amount of twist in the extensions, from end to end, for the interested readers (all two of us?). ;-) > this can cause the socket to disengage the bolt head with > damage, Possibly, but more likely IMO is that, while unbolting, the bolt simply unscrews a bit further. > or cause the operator to slip & injure themselves. I think the tradeoff is whether one wants to rig up something (somehow) so that the extensions are not needed, then struggle to get the enormous torque required closer to the body of the car. For me, this means I could not use my 5-foot pipe extension. I'd have to apply more of my body weight to a shorter torque arm at much much greater risk. Of course there's always the impact wrench, whose pros and cons have already been discussed. Here you're chalking up another pro on the impact wrench side. Noted. :-) > same with > retorquing. > bolts often have a "notchy" tightening pattern, and a long > extension makes it much more difficult to measure whether you're > tightening against a notch or whether you really have correct torque. If you mean the threads of a bolt may hang up somewhat while installing, because of rough spots on the threads, yes, this might occur, but I disagree that the extension fools a person into thinking the torque is correct. What's applied at one end of the extension will equal what's applied at the other, as long as the elastic strength of the material is not exceeded. They'd be fooled with or without the extension. > hence the [not scientifically correct but "useful" description of] > "loss" of torque. > > clearly, if you have no choice, use the long extension, but shorter is > better. Quite debatable, IMO. > or use 3/4". This would certainly help. I presume one would use an adaptor at the 17 mm (for my car) long 1/2-inch drive socket and everything else would be 3/4-inch drive. >>>>>Then you'd use a couple of ten-inch high quality, 1/2 >>>>>inch extensions and a 1/2 inch deep socket on the 19(?) mm pulley bolt [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > the amount of twist in the extensions, from end to end, for the interested > readers (all two of us?). ;-) i saw that. all that really matters is shear modulus [not to be confused with shear strength], and most steels are very similar. matweb.com [iirc] has a good searchable properties section. >>this can cause the socket to disengage the bolt head with >>damage, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > For me, this means I could not use my 5-foot pipe extension. I'd have to apply > more of my body weight to a shorter torque arm at much much greater risk. hmm. if you're using a jack as a pivot, you're already into "unsafe workshop practice" territory. and a 5' pipe extension requires only ~24lbs of you to reach manufacturer spec of 120ft.lbs so it's massive overkill. with you being behind an unspecified number of extension inches, /&/ 5' off axis, you have no control over the business end of this tool. remember, it needs to remain snug on the nut throughout this operation so there really should be a component of axial pressure to keep the tool in place as well as the unscrewing torque. if you don't feel big or strong enough to handle this without abnormal tools, then find an appropriately sized assistant or get an impact wrench. i know that "i can do this on my own thanks" seems to be an issue for some of you mechanic chicks. get over it. size matters. and size /= gender. > Of course there's always the impact wrench, whose pros and cons have already > been discussed. Here you're chalking up another pro on the impact wrench side. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > They'd be fooled with or without the extension. well, think of it like this. if you're trying to apply 1lb of force with a 1lb spring and 1lb of force with a 100lb spring, the 100lb spring is going to have less bounce and make uneven movement much less of an issue than the 1lb spring. just like if you've ever noticed how hard it is to weigh stuff on grandma's old kitchen scales when it's getting to the end of the gauge - the needle wobbles about all over the place. same with long extensions. you have a much weaker "spring" than short ones because, for the same material & diameter, the springiness is a function of length. the math for this is on the web. you are correct that the same torque is transmitted by both long & short extensions, but accurate torque is about control, and that's not something you have a lot of the way you have proposed. >>hence the [not scientifically correct but "useful" description of] >>"loss" of torque. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > This would certainly help. I presume one would use an adaptor at the 17 mm (for > my car) long 1/2-inch drive socket and everything else would be 3/4-inch drive. yes, adaptor at the business end. > Caroline wrote: re using extensions to free the crankshaft pulley bolt-- > > I'm trying to get the mechanical properties of the (Molybdenum?) steel that > > Craftsman, for one, uses with their extensions. Maybe I'll run some numbers on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > confused with shear strength], and most steels are very similar. > matweb.com [iirc] has a good searchable properties section. www.matweb.com is great. Today I realized I, among others here, have a pretty good "laboratory estimate" already of the twist in the extensions. Last week when I broke my pulley bolt free, I recall having to rotate the extension bar around 90 degrees (= 1/4 revolution) before the bolt broke loose. That's a very crude estimate done before I did the calculation below. It wasn't 180 degrees. It wasn't 10 degrees. The rotation of a bar under torsion is given by Theta, radians = TL/JG With T = 500 ft-lbs L = 25 inches (two ten-inch extensions + long socket, etc.) J = polar second moment of area of a 1/2-inch drive G = 11,300 psi This yields about 75 degrees of rotation. The guy named "M" posted here today that he broke a number of Craftsman 1/2-inch extensions and sockets when trying to remove the pulley bolt on his 97 Honda V-6. This is instructive and helpful for people to know. But one of the sites (http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html ) I routinely quote here talks about breaking three cheap extensions while trying to free the pulley bolt. So I for one knew what to look for. Also, to my "credit," over the years I have sheared at least one socket and now two 3/8"-1/4" adapters. I do not go at this lightly. No one should. I do suspect the required torque for the V-6 engine's pulley bolt is higher than my in-line 1.5L four cylinder engine. Still, M's post is important. The inexperienced should take special note. > > I think the tradeoff is whether one wants to rig up something (somehow) so that > > the extensions are not needed, then struggle to get the enormous torque required [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > hmm. if you're using a jack as a pivot, you're already into "unsafe > workshop practice" territory. The car's jack is way overkill for supporting the load here. It's more unsafe to change one's tire with these jacks. > and a 5' pipe extension requires only > ~24lbs of you to reach manufacturer spec of 120ft.lbs so it's massive > overkill. With the 5' extension I was breaking the bolt free, not tightening it. As has been reported here, some folks estimate around 500 ft-lbs. or torque are needed. I estimate I needed over 300 ft-lbs. of torque to break mine free last week. When installing the bolt, I used a 1-foot pipe extension and my weight for the manual-required 119 ft-lbs of torque. > with you being behind an unspecified number of extension > inches, /&/ 5' off axis, you have no control over the business end of > this tool. I have as much control over it as someone pulling with both hands from above the car or someone using a high-powered torque wrench. > remember, it needs to remain snug on the nut throughout this > operation so there really should be a component of axial pressure to > keep the tool in place as well as the unscrewing torque. You're forgetting that the final snugging involves rotation of maybe 1/4 turn. The bolt advances at most 1/4 turn. If you do this in five steps, pushing on the socket each time, I don't consider this anymore or less safe than any other method. > if you don't > feel big or strong enough to handle this without abnormal tools, My car's pulley bolt is already broken free, Jim. I described my technique. If you want to upbraid my approach, I expect you to upbraid just about every person here who posts their technique. None of them are particularly more or less safe than what I did, from my reading. I have serious experience with major machinery. I have been the lead mechanical engineer for a Fortune 500 company on a mega-million bucks nuclear power plant component replacement job. The most important bolts for this job had to be torqued so highly that special heating elements were used to stretch them, so they could easily be screwed in. Upon cooling, the torque built up. I have also watched bolts being torqued using hydraulic pressure. I have significant other experience (years) with major power plant components. I know what kind of forces are involved here. I also often run the stress and other, related numbers, as I alluded before, to see that I have some safety margin. Most male mechanics I know wing it. > then > find an appropriately sized assistant or get an impact wrench. i know > that "i can do this on my own thanks" seems to be an issue for some of > you mechanic chicks. get over it. size matters. and size /= gender. Men are far less safety conscious than women, on average, from my observations. So, yes, Jim, get over it: Mere size is not enough to keep a person safe. A lot of men delude themselves into thinking they can do anything. Just consider the number of yahoos posting here about their pride in driving 90 mph in their ordinary Honda down the freeway. snip > you are correct > that the same torque is transmitted by both long & short extensions, but > accurate torque is about control, and that's not something you have a > lot of the way you have proposed. No, accurate torque is about using a calibrated torque wrench or a calibrated weight at the end of a known torque arm distance. The angular twist in the extensions while torquing down the pulley bolt is completely irrelevant to what the torque wrench senses. One gets the 'click' (on the usual torque wrench), or one does not. If one is very concerned, torque in five or so steps. dude, please don't think i'm knocking you - i'm not, so please be less defensive. i don't doubt your experience, but, with respect, i've been around the block a couple of times as well. regarding supporting a wrench with a jack, of course the jack can take the load - that's not the point. the point is, even with the best intent, the wrench is not under full control in that situation so it's potentially very dangerous in the event of slippage or breakage. period. a large person with two hands on the tool [regardless of gender] - one on the end of the lever and the other on the pivot /is/ a properly controlled situation - as is a pneumatic impact drive. regarding torque application, again, you are correct that torque at one end = torque at the other, /but/ you're not allowing for the dynamic affects of wind-up. you know how you can hold a pneumatic impact wrench in one hand and have it hammer off 400ft.lbs? ever wondered why it doesn't break your arm off? that's dynamic loading - it depends on the very short duration impact momentum of the hammer striking its anvil to do the work, not any force that can be applied by your arm. and to limit the torque applied by impact wrenches, you can get extension bars like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42478 do the math for a reduced diameter extension bar like one of these, then compare it to one with extended length. notice the correlation? in a situation where you do not have a smooth bolt rotation, the action/sprung reaction effect of a long extension /can/ affect accurate torque application. it's not simply a "weight at the end of a beam" but also the time over which that weight is applied - and time is affected by the spring rate. best jb > re using extensions to free the crankshaft pulley bolt-- > [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] > the usual torque wrench), or one does not. If one is very concerned, torque in > five or so steps. Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over night. If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible to remove it with sandpaper after it drys. Tom. > I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's > crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few > salvage yards for less, if need be. > Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley > to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over > night. > > If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible > to remove it with sandpaper after it drys. Yes, I do have the old piece. I'll read up on JB Weld's strength characteristics and assess the risk if the "weld" does not hold and the little piece goes flying off. (It's about 1.5" of pulley arc length" x 9/16" x 1/8".) Thanks. > "tflfb" wrote: > > Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and assess the risk if the "weld" does not hold and the little piece goes flying > off. (It's about 1.5" of pulley arc length" x 9/16" x 1/8".) Thanks. The JB Weld held fine for I figure about two weeks. But yesterday I discovered the chipped off piece had come free. It's now lost forever. Must have miscalculated for "worst case" scenarios--hitting bumps, etc. Worse, as George supposed, the power steering belt does look a bit frayed on the edge closest to the chipped section. My first local salvage yard didn't have the right pulley, after all. The second local salvage yard wanted almost the same as Majestic online (about $100) for a used pulley. This despite my "fierce negotiations." The guy at the yard kept insisting he could get $100 for it from local shops. I told him I'd keep thinking about it but walked out happily, feeling pretty confident I could do better online, one way or another. Meanwhile I drive prepared to lose power steering... Ebay occasionally has non-performance (i.e. OEM non aluminum) pulleys for early 1990s Hondas but not right now. I researched on the net and discovered the online salvage yard business. Pretty cool. Many (most?) have search engines which all seem to use the same format. Dunno what's with this but the responses I got varied enough for me to think I was pretty much searching one store's inventory at a time. I found one pulley (and I mean exactly one!) that should work on my car. Interchangeability is very limited, with IIRC variation in pulley wheel diameters for the alternator and PS belts (didn't check power steering). Plus, not all of them had the correct circumferential holes for which my home-made pulley holder tool is designed, so, you know... ;-) By the looks of things at the Majestic site, only 1989-91 Civic LX (and only LX!) pulleys are identical. I'm paying $50 total (= part cost + shipping/handling) to Olstons.com for a 1990 LX pulley, with the clerk there double checking two diameters for me, shipped UPS. Hopefully it's a fit. Meanwhile I'm finding other uses for JB Weld around the house. :-) > Worse, as George supposed, the power steering belt does look a bit frayed on the > edge closest to the chipped section. im wondering whether the sharp edge where the pulley broke can be filed or ground down to make it "softer" as a stopgap measure. "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote C wrote > > Worse, as George supposed, the power steering belt does look a bit frayed on the > > edge closest to the chipped section. > > im wondering whether the sharp edge where the pulley broke can be filed > or ground down to make it "softer" as a stopgap measure. Yes, I am thinking about doing this, as I monitor the PS belt's fraying. ;-) Only a few inches of one edge seem to be staying frayed, with no worsening. Maybe the fraying occurred when the JB weld gave up and the chip flew off. Maybe I'll lay a little JB weld on there to smooth out the rough edges, too. Anyway, I'm not sweating it. My "new" pulley should be here within a week, and I don't need the car for anything but recreation lately. >I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's > crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > few > salvage yards for less, if need be. |
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