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Car Forum / Honda Cars / June 2004Air intake very loud...
Hey, Anyone know what could cause an air intake to sound louder than necessary? I currently drive a 2000 Honda Civic EX and installed an aftermarket intake (short ram) almost 2 years ago and everything sounded fine with it. About two weeks ago I decide to replace the timing belt, etc., since the car had 92,000mi on it. While working on the car, I had to remove the spark plugs and wires and noticed the plugs were kinda worn down. So I decided to regap them (mistake?). Reinstalled everything, turned the car on and the engine ran fine...althougth the RPMs were running kinda low at first but went back to normal the second time I ran the car. Anyway...as I was driving/accelerating the car, I noticed the intake was louder...like it was sucking in more air than usual. I examined the intake and there wasn't anything lose. I never even touched it during the timing belt work. So i'm curious as to why it would sound louder. Would regapping the plugs incorrectly cause something like this? Perhaps the timing of the engine is slightly off? Although I always thought if the timing was off, the engine would just go off after a loud *bang*. -AGS  SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > Hey, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > is slightly off? Although I always thought if the timing was off, the > engine would just go off after a loud *bang*. I can't answer your questions regarding the short air intake. However, did you double check the mechanical timing after replacing the belt? I usually turn the engine over by hand one or two revolutions after tensioning the belt and then recheck the timing. Did you check the ignition timing with a timing light after you were done? Did you need to adjust the distributor? Eric Thanks for the response/help. I did check the mechanical timing the first time around. Yeah, there was a second time. Problems with the crankshaft seal caused the car to POUR oil onto the ground when I started it up. Took everything apart again, fixed the seal and threw everything back together. Didn't check the timing as I believed I didn't move either the camshaft or crankshaft. Although, as I stand, I could be mistaken. If the ignition timing is off, would that also mean the mechanical timing of the engine (pistons/values) is off, thus meaning, there would be more problems with the car? Just to get it out of the way, gonna buy some new plugs (since they should be replaced anyway) and some new wires to see if anything changes. If not, i'll see where I can find the equipment to check the ignition timing. BTW, if anyone else is planning to change their timing belt on a 2000 Honda Civic EX, there are several minor mistakes in the Haynes repair manual. 1) You can not remove the A/C belt as easily as it sounds. I believe you'll need to remove an engine mount in order to get it off. Specifically, the lower driver side mount. This mount is in addition to the upper driver side mount you'll need to remove to gain access to the timing belt cover. I haven't removed the A/C belt yet as I had enough car work that weekend. ;) 2) Speaking of timing belt cover, you can't remove it as easily as the manual says, as well. The upper timing belt cover is sitting under the valve cover. I was unable to remove it just buy removing the few bolts. Had to loosen the valve cover bolts and pry the valve cover up oh so lightly (so not to damage the seal & cover) to get the upper timing belt cover out. -AGS PS: If anyone has any hints as to how to put the alternator back to its original position, let me know. I can't seem to push back to its original position. Granted its a new belt, but I should be able to move it a little more to add some more tension on the belt. Thanks! > I can't answer your questions regarding the short air intake. However, > did [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Eric SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > Thanks for the response/help. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > timing as I believed I didn't move either the camshaft or crankshaft. > Although, as I stand, I could be mistaken. Always check the timing. Always. It's easy to get the belt off by a tooth. The car will still run but it will change the engine's vacuum. This scenario could explain the initial rough running you experienced. The fact that it smoothed out later could be due to the computer compensating for the changed condition. Of course, there could be other explanations such as a vacuum hose that was accidentally knocked loose. > If the ignition timing is off, would that also mean the mechanical timing > of the engine (pistons/values) is off, thus meaning, there would be more > problems with the car? Yes, if the car was in reasonably good shape before you did the timing belt the ignition timing should not have changed. Checking the ignition timing is a way to double check your work. > Just to get it out of the way, gonna buy some new plugs (since they should > be replaced anyway) and some new wires to see if anything changes. If > not, i'll see where I can find the equipment to check the ignition timing. The Honda OE spark plug wires should be good for 100-120K miles. Save your money unless you really need them. If you do, then NGK's wires work fine. I would stay away from less expensive brands, they'll cause more problems than their worth. Eric Ok, i'm convinced...the timing must be off. I haven't checked it yet but after speaking to a couple different people today and reading your post, everyone is saying the same thing. I also asked if i'm causing any damage to the engine by driving it everyday and they told me that based off the symptoms I had/have, most likely not. This is good news to me because my hands are tied for the next couple weeks. Won't be able to do any work till after. But here is a question: Would it be necessary for me to make the timing adjustments at the timing belt level or can I do as the Haynes repair manual suggests for Ignition Timing adjustment? And I quote, "If an adjustment is required, loosen the three mounting bolts and rotate the distributor slightly until the timing is correct. Tighten the mounting bolts and recheck the timing. Also recheck idle speed to make sure it hasn't changed." I kinda like the later option (less work)...but it doesn't make sense to me. If I turn the distributor, wouldn't I also be turning the crankshaft, thus, not solving the timing problem? Or does the distributor have the ability to turn by itself? Sorry for all the little questions...i'm not a pro. :( -AGS > Always check the timing. Always. It's easy to get the belt off by a > tooth. The car will still run but it will change the engine's vacuum. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Eric SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ If its off by a tooth, then you need to fix the belt. If the teeth are OK, then you can retard or advance the timing while using a timing light and jigging the jumpers to turn off the computer advance. t Damn...guess i'll have to do it the hard way. :( Thanks for the help. -AGS > If its off by a tooth, then you need to fix the belt. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > t SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > Ok, i'm convinced...the timing must be off. > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> >> Eric There's mechanical timing of the camshafts to the crankshaft(timing belt position),then there's electrical timing of the distributor to the crankshaft(spark trigger-to-TDC relationship). SignatureJim Yanik jyanik-at-kua.net Interesting... So would cause the electrical timing to be/go off assuming the mechanical timing was still good? Just curious, not that this applies to my situation. -AGS > There's mechanical timing of the camshafts to the crankshaft(timing belt > position),then there's electrical timing of the distributor to the > crankshaft(spark trigger-to-TDC relationship). SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > Interesting... > > So would cause the electrical timing to be/go off assuming the mechanical > timing was still good? Just curious, not that this applies to my > situation. The distributor is driven off the camshaft. If the camshaft's mechanical timing is not correct, e.g., the timing belt is off by a tooth or two, then the ignition timing will not be correct either. Compensating for this by adjusting the distributor, as you stated your Haynes manual recommends, is not a correct repair. The engine's mechanical timing must be corrected. Eric Thanks for all the info. This timing belt job has definitely been a learning experience. ;) -AGS > The distributor is driven off the camshaft. If the camshaft's mechanical > timing is not correct, e.g., the timing belt is off by a tooth or two, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Eric SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ I have a 98 Civic LX with AC. The A/C belt is a bitch. It actually goes around that engine mount, so yes, you would need to remove the engine mount to get the belt off. However, in my Haynes manual, it tells me that. Do you have a different version? The one area that the Haynes manual is wrong is in regards to the alternator removal. It tells you that you have to pull the driveshaft in order to remove the alternator. BULLSHIT. You just need to remove the alternator bracket from the engine block, that leaves tonnes of room to get the alternator out. As far as tensioning the alternator, it is possible to get good leverage on the alternator with a long prybar or screwdriver from the top. I did this with 2 people, one reefin on the prybar up top, and me underneath to tighten the adjustment nut. t My Haynes Repair Manual is for Honda Civic's (1996-2000), CR-V's (1997-2000) and Acura Integra's (1994-2000). Geez, can we sqeeze any more models in there, like maybe an Accord and a Prelude. ;) The only thing my manual says for A/C belt removal is, "To replace a belt, follow the above procedures for drivebelt adjustment but slip the belt off the crankshaft pulley and remove it." For adjustment, "...loosen the idler pulley bolt, then turn the adjusting bolt to loosen or tighten the belt." Nothing about removing an engine mount! Yeah, I read the procedure of alternator removal before and thought, "Why remove the driveaxle? There seems to be plenty of room to do it otherwise." Sweet...now I know I don't have touch the driveaxle when my alternator goes bad. :) I did use a large screwdriver to pry the alternator back, but it only went back so far. Then I tried to use a long metal bar I had laying around but couldn't get it into the engine...the hood got in the way, LOL. Oh well...I wouldn't say the belt is gonna come off anytime soon but I like to be better safe than sorry. When I get around to changing the A/C belt later this summer, i'll try again to push the alternator back some more. Thanks for the response. -AGS > I have a 98 Civic LX with AC. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > t SignatureUsing Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ The other thing you need to worry about is making the belt TOO tight. This can be very hard on the bearings, and cause all sorts of problems. I actually think that this is the reason my alternator failed in the first place. t > The other thing you need to worry about is making the belt > TOO tight. This can be very hard on the bearings, and cause [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > t Bearings don't last forever,anyways. Just think of the environment they have to work in. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik-at-kua.net > The other thing you need to worry about is making the belt > TOO tight. This can be very hard on the bearings, and cause [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > t ================= You lost us with that one . . . The alternator is driven by a V-belt, (which may have been overtightened) but nothing to do with the timing belt. 'Curly' I didn't refer to the timing belt, I was referring to the alternator belt. My theory is that it was overtightened, which put too much pressure on my alternator bearing, which contributed to its failure. t |
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