Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 2004
Engine oil grade for 98 Accord
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eh - 04 Aug 2004 22:42 GMT Dear experts,
I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week I went an independent deader to get my oil changed. The technician told me that I should be filling 10-30 or 10-40 oil since my car has a lot of mileage on it. He said these oil protects older engine better. The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing else. Is the technician right?
Thanks, Eugene
Steve Bigelow - 04 Aug 2004 22:42 GMT > Dear experts, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing > else. Is the technician right? No.
Elliot Richmond - 05 Aug 2004 01:08 GMT >I have a 98 Accord that has 80K on it. Last week >I went an independent deader to get my oil changed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing >else. Is the technician right? You should always follow manufacturer's recommendations. However, the manufacturer may not include all of the information about oil choices in the owner's manual, so you may want to check with a dealer. The dealer will have more extensive information about oil choices that, I bet, include the conditions under which 10W 30 oil might be a better choice (high temperature, severe service, etc.).
As a general rule, the lower viscosity oils give slightly better fuel mileage. Honda engines regularly clock over 200K miles with appropriate care, so 80K may not be a "high mileage" engine. Modern oils are so good that there is little reason to change based on age of the engine. Assuming high quality oil. (And, for what ever it's worth, every mechanic I know uses Castrol GTX in their own car. That's also what my Honda dealer uses at oil changes.))
On the other hand, as far as I know, there would be no problem substituting 10W 30 for 5W 30, especially if the ambient air temperature is high enough, as for example right now in Austin, Texas, where we are flirting with 100 degree days.
It is my understanding that 10W 40 oils should not be used under any circumstances. To get that large viscosity range, oil manufacturers have to add "viscosity improvers." These are various polymers that stay balled up at low temperature but unwind and tangle together at high temperature. When they tangle together, that raises the viscosity of the oil. If that sounds like it might be bad for your engine, you should know that experts also think it might be bad.
Anyway, that's what I was told.
Elliot Richmond Freelance Science Writer and Editor
Caroline - 05 Aug 2004 03:05 GMT > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 14:42:42 -0700, "eh" <eh@nospam.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > bet, include the conditions under which 10W 30 oil might be a better > choice (high temperature, severe service, etc.). I don't want to be too caustic; rather, I want to present another point of view re going to the dealer.
The dealer's time is money. Given what I think is a high turnover of technicians and service managers in the business, and how busy dealer service departments are, I wouldn't count on many dealers fielding this question with integrity or expertise. They might have a correct answer, but from too much bad work by dealers, I wouldn't rely on them as being "expert."
Now maybe Elliot has a dealer whom he really trusts. But I've worked with a few dealers and found it's a roll of the dice as to their people's competence.
Last time I called the dealer for some basic parts information, as an aside to my query some yahoo there told me the crankshaft bolt was left-hand threaded. Wrong. Thank god I knew better and just ignored this gross mistake.
In order, go to 1. the owner's manual 2. service manuals such as Helm or Chilton's 3. the newsgroups 4. the Google search engine 5. other resources suggested by the newsgroup 6. the dealer
Weigh all the information and come to a decision
I don't buy the technician's cousel at all, based on reading over the years.
Caroline 1991 Honda Civic LX, 155k miles, Pennzoil 5W-30 always, 40+ mpg 3/4 of the year.
Caroline - 05 Aug 2004 05:52 GMT > "Elliot Richmond" <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > >The car manual specified to use 5-30 and nothing > > >else. Is the technician right? snip
> I don't buy the technician's cousel at all, based on reading over the years. Hmm. I googled: {oil viscosity engine older car} Some sites do say that, at some point in an "older" car's life, switching to a higher viscosity oil, particularly in the summer, might be prudent. Criteria are as one would expect: Higher oil consumption than early in life, for example.
Steve Bigelow - 05 Aug 2004 11:20 GMT > > "Elliot Richmond" <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > particularly in the summer, might be prudent. Criteria are as one would expect: > Higher oil consumption than early in life, for example. Yeah, maybe.
But the tech said 10-30 instead of 5-30.....so he's claiming the car needs thicker oil when *cold*, and the same viscosity when hot.
And that's a little....odd.
Caroline - 05 Aug 2004 15:13 GMT > "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote > > > "Elliot Richmond" <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > But the tech said 10-30 instead of 5-30.....so he's claiming the car needs > thicker oil when *cold*, and the same viscosity when hot. ?
I don't understand your inference that the tech is saying something about the engine's needs when it's cold.
Aside: Like every auto oil web site I've seen, in this thread I'm taking "thicker" to mean "more viscous." "Thicker" does not refer to density in this context. Water is more dense but less viscous than 5W-30. Yada yada big deal, I know.
> And that's a little....odd. If the tech had said this, then I would agree.
A car generally needs lower viscosity oil when cold, and higher when hot.
But barring any specific car age issues, I understand 5W-30 is fine for a very wide temperature range for your typical car built at least after 1990 and maybe going back even further. The oil experts can elaborate as they wish...
w_tom - 05 Aug 2004 01:14 GMT Who do you believe? The engineer from Honda or a simple technician? To have credibility, the tech better have science facts to support his speculation. No solid facts neither based upon science nor supported by numbers? Then he is probably promoting junk science.
This is not just how one selects motor oil. Some are so foolish as to believe the junk science reasoning from mouthwash manufacturer such as Listerene and Scope. If their reasoning was correct, then Vodka is a better mouthwash and is superior to a tooth brush with fluoride toothpaste. Where is the science that says mouthwash is so effective? Same mythological reasoning.
Consult Honda. If the tech says otherwise then hold his feet to the fire. Either he will provide those facts (an honest man) or he will get emotional (symptoms of a myth purveyor).
> Dear experts, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > Eugene John - 05 Aug 2004 23:34 GMT Your technician is wrong. This was a standard practice many years ago when engines were constructed to loose clearances.
The engine has small passages to distribute oil to where lubrication is required. These oil passages have been sized to distribute oil flow approriately with the correct weight oil. If you use a thicker oil, the oil will flow through the smaller passages slower, thus providing less or no protection. This will especially be a problem on cold start.
Use the manufacturers recommended oil weight. A synthetic such as mobil 1 or amsoil of the correct weight will extend your motor's life.
Also, change the oil (and filter) at 3000 miles. Extended oil changes are poor economy because engines are much more expensive than oil.
> Dear experts, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks, > Eugene Grumpy au Contraire - 07 Aug 2004 13:44 GMT Um, the reason that Honda and other manufactures recommend thinner oils is for improved gas economy period.
ANY engine that has more than 100K requires a higher viscosity rating.
And, if you're gonna change oil every 3K, it's a waste of money if you're using a quality oil such as Castrol or Valvoline when 5K is fine and even 7.5 K is ok.
Now, if you use crappy stuff like Penzoil, Quaker State and most store brand stuff, you better make it 2.5K on the changes.
A note on synthetics... My opinion that it is a waste of money for engine lubrication because of suspended particles typical of internal combustion engines. OTOH, synthetics in transmissions, differentials, power steering is truly a smart move.
JT
(Who has been fiddlin' with infernal comustion engines for nearly fifty years...)
> Your technician is wrong. This was a standard practice many years ago > when engines were constructed to loose clearances. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks, > > Eugene -
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