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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2004Why do vents default to outside air?
Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly in traffic and don't like to breathe exhaust fumes filling the car, so I'm continually resetting it to recirc. But I'm curious as to why outside air is the default setting. (?) 2000 Accord v6 sedan Jeff > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly > in traffic and don't like to breathe exhaust fumes filling the car, so > I'm continually resetting it to recirc. But I'm curious as to why > outside air is the default setting. (?) Honda flipped a coin, maybe? > > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Honda flipped a coin, maybe? Because once the inside air has been dehumidified through the process of a/c, the a/c will struggle to cool that air again. recirc works great to cool a steamy car initially, because it is not only throwing cold air at you, but is taking away the hot inside air. but once the car has cooled you want to switch back to outside air (unless a situation like behind a bus, etc., as you mention). also windshield will fog up in certain conditions when using recirc. rob > recirc works great to cool a steamy car initially, because it is not > only throwing cold air at you, but is taking away the hot inside air. > but once the car has cooled you want to switch back to outside air > (unless a situation like behind a bus, etc., as you mention). This is all backwards to me, unless it's because I live in a hot, dry climate. When first getting into the car, the temperature inside the car can be 40 degrees hotter than outside; therefore, here one first needs to use fresh a/c. Once the interior starts to cool off, *then* switch to recirculate. The a/c won't have to work so hard, cooling air that is already temperate, not at inferno-grade. >>recirc works great to cool a steamy car initially, because it is not >>only throwing cold air at you, but is taking away the hot inside air. >>but once the car has cooled you want to switch back to outside air >>(unless a situation like behind a bus, etc., as you mention). > > This is all backwards to me Right. Backwards. It's easier to make already cool air colder, or to keep it cool--there's less heat to remove to the cooling coils. Also, same goes for humidity. If you keep pumping super humid air from outside into the car, the air won't necessarily get as dry as it would if you use the recirc setting. I'd guess it's switching back to outside air for safety reasons--these newer cars are so airtight that one needs a fresh supply or air to prevent CO poisoning if there were a problem with your exhaust system, for example. Or as others have suggested, the climate control could be doing it based on air temp. > I'd guess it's switching back to outside air for safety reasons--these > newer cars are so airtight that one needs a fresh supply or air to > prevent CO poisoning if there were a problem with your exhaust system, > for example. Cars aren't like modern buildings. ALL cars bring in some fresh air, even on recirculate. > Cars aren't like modern buildings. ALL cars bring in some fresh air, > even on recirculate. Hmmm, if you say so. Certainly my '94 Civic does. ;-) > This is all backwards to me, unless it's because I live in a hot, dry > climate. When first getting into the car, the temperature inside the car can > be 40 degrees hotter than outside; therefore, here one first needs to use > fresh a/c. That's correct, and also open the windows so that the fresh a/c is blowing the stale inside air out. > Once the interior starts to cool off, *then* switch to > recirculate. That's correct. Once the inside and the outside have equalized, you roll up the windows and hit recirculate. Now the inside will stay much cooler than the outside, and will stay much cooler than if it had to cool and dehumidify the outside air. > This is all backwards to me, unless it's because I live in a hot, dry > climate. When first getting into the car, the temperature inside the car can > be 40 degrees hotter than outside; therefore, here one first needs to use > fresh a/c. even easier is to just roll the wondows down and drive for a mile. that gets the 140+ degree air out. Once the interior starts to cool off, *then* switch to > recirculate. The a/c won't have to work so hard, cooling air that is already > temperate, not at inferno-grade. On 9/22/04 10:25 AM, in article cis5hd$7i9$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu, "Howard Lester" <hlester@mmto.org> wrote: >> recirc works great to cool a steamy car initially, because it is not >> only throwing cold air at you, but is taking away the hot inside air. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > recirculate. The a/c won't have to work so hard, cooling air that is already > temperate, not at inferno-grade. From another resident of a hot climate - you will get better (read faster) results if you let it go into recirc and crack the windows several inches for the first couple of minutes. The AC will cool faster and convection (warm air rises) plus whatever breeze there might be will draw the superheated air out the windows. > From another resident of a hot climate - you will get better (read faster) > results if you let it go into recirc and crack the windows several inches > for the first couple of minutes. The AC will cool faster and convection > (warm air rises) plus whatever breeze there might be will draw the > superheated air out the windows. Thanks for that idea - I'll try it. Fortunately, the temperatures around here in southern Arizona have suddenly cooled to "humane," so really I'm hoping I don't have to get a chance to try it until next May. > From another resident of a hot climate - you will get better (read faster) > results if you let it go into recirc and crack the windows several inches > for the first couple of minutes. The AC will cool faster and convection > (warm air rises) plus whatever breeze there might be will draw the > superheated air out the windows. Bah, this is still unclear to me with no concensus on the best method. It is agreed that opening/cracking the windows when first driving will evacuate the heated air, but afterwards there are 2 camps. 1. Start in recirc and then switch to fresh after temp stabilization. 2. Start in fresh and then switch to recirc. I think 2 is more intuitive and that's what I do! > Bah, this is still unclear to me with no concensus on the best method. It > is agreed that opening/cracking the windows when first driving will evacuate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I think 2 is more intuitive and that's what I do! That's what *I* do, too. Now, here are excerpts from the (Accord 2004) MANUAL. Remember that thing? ;) * If the outside air is humid, select recirculation mode. If the outside air is dry, select Fresh Air mode. * If the interior is very warm, you can cool it down more rapidly by partially opening the windows, turning on the A/C, and setting the fan to maximum speed in Fresh Air mode. HAH! How about reading to owner's manual, it's all in there in my book. The manufacturing engineers wouldn't have put their recommendations in there if they didn't think it would help the owner. D. > > From another resident of a hot climate - you will get better (read faster) > > results if you let it go into recirc and crack the windows several inches [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think 2 is more intuitive and that's what I do! On 9/22/04 7:44 PM, in article GM6dnWmr1uPQgc_cRVn-gA@comcast.com, "MAT" <marcoatRM_SPAM@DEL_SPAmsnotmail.com> wrote: >> From another resident of a hot climate - you will get better (read faster) >> results if you let it go into recirc and crack the windows several inches [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think 2 is more intuitive and that's what I do! I don't see why there should be a "camp". Get out your thermometer and a stop watch and try it both ways. I would be willing to bet that number one will win, and is, in fact, the recommended procedure in every owner's manual I have seen in the past 15 years or more. > > 1. Start in recirc and then switch to fresh after temp stabilization. > > 2. Start in fresh and then switch to recirc. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > recommended procedure in every owner's manual I have seen in the past 15 > years or more. It is not the recommended procedure in any owner's manual I've seen in the last 15 years, and I will take your bet. On 9/23/2004 10:52 AM Elmo P. Shagnasty spake these words of knowledge: >> > 1. Start in recirc and then switch to fresh after temp stabilization. >> > 2. Start in fresh and then switch to recirc. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > It is not the recommended procedure in any owner's manual I've seen in > the last 15 years, and I will take your bet. You don't read much, apparently. Or you have misread what was said above. Look again. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen  SignatureI just got slapped with my seventh sexual harassment suit this year. Man, I tell ya, the broads in my office -- great racks, no sense of humor. On 9/24/04 6:57 AM, in article zYT4d.54592$uN5.18482@tornado.tampabay.rr.com, "Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 9/23/2004 10:52 AM Elmo P. Shagnasty spake these words of knowledge: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > RFT!!! > Dave Kelsen What does "RFT!!!" mean? Well, I double checked the manuals for the 15 years of cars my immediate family currently uses. The '91 240SX, '96 I30, '96 Odyssey, '97 I30t, '98 Maxima, and '02 Pathfinder all say what I said they say. The '00 TL manual doesn't address it. That book says "The system automatically selects the proper mix of conditioned and/or heated air that will, as quickly as possible, raise or lower the interior temperature from its current level to the set temperature." In practice, that car always turns on recirc mode when it first engages on a hot day. So, pal - which books are you reading? I don't doubt that there will be differences from one car's manual to another, but I didn't misread anything. Another interesting side-light - the mid-'90s Nissans with automatic systems (the two I30s) ignore the recirc button when they are in automatic mode and you select a temperature at least 10-15 degrees below ambient (which is most of the time here in Texas). They go into recirc and you can't switch it off. The light goes on and off when you push the button, but nothing changes. On 9/24/2004 9:26 AM E. Meyer spake these words of knowledge: > On 9/24/04 6:57 AM, in article > zYT4d.54592$uN5.18482@tornado.tampabay.rr.com, "Dave Kelsen" [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > What does "RFT!!!" mean? It means "Roll Tide" (the teams of the athletic department of the University of Alabama). > Well, I double checked the manuals for the 15 years of cars my immediate > family currently uses. The '91 240SX, '96 I30, '96 Odyssey, '97 I30t, '98 > Maxima, and '02 Pathfinder all say what I said they say. Yes. Well, if you look at the message I typed, I was responding to Elmo. He has some unusual ideas at times, but he's not an idiot, so I figured that perhaps he had misread your message and thought that you were saying the opposite of what you were actually saying. Sorta like you just thought about my message. I agree with you, and so do the manuals of my automobiles. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen Signature"Do nothing secretly; for Time sees and hears all things, and discloses all." -- Sophocles > Yes. Well, if you look at the message I typed, I was responding to > Elmo. He has some unusual ideas at times, but he's not an idiot, so I > figured that perhaps he had misread your message and thought that you > were saying the opposite of what you were actually saying. Upon re-reading the original post, I do believe that was the case, yes. On 9/25/04 4:52 AM, in article qdb5d.31202$Si.29776@tornado.tampabay.rr.com, > On 9/24/2004 9:26 AM E. Meyer spake these words of knowledge: > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > RFT!!! > Dave Kelsen Sorry. I missed Elmo completely - he went into my kill file a year ago when he was advocating feeding false and possibly dangerous answers to anyone who had the audacity to ask how to turn off the maintenance light. Apparently my news reader is doing a good job of filtering him out. > Sorry. I missed Elmo completely - he went into my kill file a year ago when > he was advocating feeding false and possibly dangerous answers to anyone who > had the audacity to ask how to turn off the maintenance light. Apparently > my news reader is doing a good job of filtering him out. Ooooooo. <snort> Obviously, you have no sense of reality. >> Sorry. I missed Elmo completely - he went into my kill file a year ago >> when [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Obviously, you have no sense of reality. Says you. *You're* replying to someone you know has you killfiled! > *You're* replying to someone you know has you killfiled! no, I'm replying to someone who SAYS he has me killfiled. >> *You're* replying to someone you know has you killfiled! > > no, I'm replying to someone who SAYS he has me killfiled. Touche. > Bah, this is still unclear to me with no concensus on the best method. It > is agreed that opening/cracking the windows when first driving will evacuate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I think 2 is more intuitive and that's what I do! Disregarding for a the moment the fact that the specific heat capacity of air depends on humidity, I would say common sense tells us that for most efficient cooling, you want the coolest possible air entering the evaporator. So, if your car has been sitting in the sun, start with "fresh" until the inside air is at the same temperature as the outside air. Then switch to "recirc" until it gets comfortably cool inside. From this point on, keeping it in "recirc" will give you the best fuel economy, but unless it is hot enough that the A/C can't keep up, putting it in "fresh" is an option after a large refried bean lunch. On 9/24/04 12:12 AM, in article 4153AD23.1833E5FF@junkmail.com, "Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote: >> Bah, this is still unclear to me with no concensus on the best method. It >> is agreed that opening/cracking the windows when first driving will evacuate [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > most efficient cooling, you want the coolest possible air entering the > evaporator. ... and it takes about 15 seconds to completely replace the hot air near the recirc inlet (which by convection is already the coolest air in the car) with chilled air from the AC outlets being sucked down to it. > So, if your car has been sitting in the sun, start with > "fresh" until the inside air is at the same temperature as the outside > air. Then switch to "recirc" until it gets comfortably cool inside. From > this point on, keeping it in "recirc" will give you the best fuel > economy, Say what? It takes less gas to have the AC in recirc mode vs. fresh air mode? I'd like to see the data that supports this assertion. > but unless it is hot enough that the A/C can't keep up, putting > it in "fresh" is an option after a large refried bean lunch. >> So, if your car has been sitting in the sun, start with >> "fresh" until the inside air is at the same temperature as the outside [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Say what? It takes less gas to have the AC in recirc mode vs. fresh air >mode? I'd like to see the data that supports this assertion. You get better fuel economy on recirculate. On a long highway journey with the cruise on and nothing else to do, I timed the time the compressor was ON/OFF while on recirculate and while on fresh. It was ON for about 30 seconds on Recirc but more than a minute on Fresh (the car's interior had already cooled down completely). Also, OFF times were higher for recirc but don't remember them. If it's extremely humid outside I would expect the compressor to stay ON all the time on fresh. Air "quality" (temperature? humidity?) is always better on fresh instead of hours on recirculate. Bye, Leon On 9/25/04 2:03 PM, in article 1n8bl0h7gm5tq45kkgalo2q4dnsrl1i8qv@4ax.com, >>> So, if your car has been sitting in the sun, start with >>> "fresh" until the inside air is at the same temperature as the outside [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Bye, > Leon This sounds like an experiment I need to try on the trip to Houston next week. > Because once the inside air has been dehumidified through the process > of a/c, the a/c will struggle to cool that air again. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but once the car has cooled you want to switch back to outside air > (unless a situation like behind a bus, etc., as you mention). Ummmmm......no, not at all....... It will ALWAYS be less efficient to dehumidify the outside fresh air than the inside recirculating air. Really. Honestly. Truly. > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeff Probably the same reason many other car manufactures do, so that can have that ridiculouly labelled "Max Air" button, which merely changes the air flow from outside to recirculate, and makes people think they have two levels of air conditioning power. Bob On 9/21/04 11:51 PM, in article jeff-EC6298.00511822092004@news.east.cox.net, "Jeff" <jeff@invalid.net> wrote: > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeff The AC uses a "just enough and no more" sort of logic. When it decides it can't achieve the temperature you asked it for, then it opens the recirc door. If you have the AC where you select a temperature, set it to 60 degrees (F) and the recirc light will come on immediately (unless the outside temperature is 40). You should know that even when you put it in recirc, a small amount of outside air is still drawn in. This is so you don't pass out from your own exhaust fumes concentrating in the car. > The AC uses a "just enough and no more" sort of logic. When it decides it > can't achieve the temperature you asked it for, then it opens the recirc > door. If you have the AC where you select a temperature, set it to 60 > degrees (F) and the recirc light will come on immediately (unless the > outside temperature is 40). That's interesting. Perhaps you should have your vehicle's system checked for a problem. My A/C does nothing, unless I tell (push a button) it to perform a task. SignatureBrian http://www.cakesbydarlene.ca http://www.accesswave.ca/~orion > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeff I have 99 Accord, European Model With Automatic AC, when I use it on Full AUTO , the outside Air vent is closed, which make sense, on Manual I presume every setting should me manual. Few months back I was in LA , where I drive Toyota Camry , in which outside air vent was independent of using AC Might be a function of the climate control temperature setting. Put the temperature at minimum (60) and see if the recirc light comes on. I have a 2000 Accord V6 and that's what happens. MLD > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeff > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeff With the cab of the vehicle preasurized with outside air, exhaust fumes cannot enter the car. As a default outside air ensures carbon monoxide free air....................... dale P.................... > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jeff I don't believe that it is suppose to work that way. It does NOT work that way on my 1999 Honda Accord. You either have something wrong with your system or you are not setting the controls correctly. It's my guess that you don't bother turning on the air conditioner after starting your vehicle. Try this experiment for a week: After you start your Accord, turn the heat control to the max. setting. Push the Recir button. It does not matter which vent button you press. I almost forgot to tell you to press the AC button. After you do this experiment for a week, repost and let us know the results. I usually leave my air conditioner set this way all of the time during the summer months. SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I usually leave my air conditioner set this way all of the time during the > summer months. It tells in my 2000 Accord Owners manual how to program it to work either way. Randy Can you post the instructions or email them to me? Maybe it will work on my Pilot. The A/C on my Town and Country would allow you to program the recirc. button either way. Kerby > > > Just wondering--whenever I use the AC, my Accord keeps defaulting to > > > outside air (as do most newer vehicles, I've noticed). I drive mostly [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Randy |
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