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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 200791 civic wont start ???
I'm working on my buddy?s civic and having some trouble figuring what?s wrong. The car was running ok until he came out of the store and it wouldn?t start. After having it towed to my house I started to check things over. His mechanic said it was the timing belt. Sounds like all mechanics. I pulled the distributor and tried to start the motor to see if the rotor turned. It did. I?m guessing that the timing belt is ok. I pulled the spark plug to check for spark. I got spark. I checked the fuel pump inside the gas tank and can hear it running. I checked the fuel lines coming into the manifold for flow and pressure, Its OK. I finally read the codes off the computer. I got a #16) fuel injector system & #17) VSS error code. Now the kicker is when I try to start the car it just turns and turns. Now if I pump the gas pedal as fast as I can the motor all but starts. As soon as I stop pumping, the engine dies. I then put some gas into the carburetor and tried starting the motor, no luck with that. This 91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has a PGM-FI system on it. Any Ideals??.. Dunno about the codes (engine flooded now?) but based on a lot of reading here and experience with my own 1991 Civic LX sedan, the leading causes of early 1990s Civics not starting (but the distributor rotor turns) are: 1. Failed distributor ignitor. How old is the current one? They last maybe 100k miles. The following sites are helpful on the subject: http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/igniter/igniter.htm www.autozone.com click on the links to the free repair guides. Put in your car's info. Go to engine electrical, distributor, etc. for some checks you can do on the ignitor. 2. Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so I'd lean towards 1. Also, it's usually an intermittent problem: The car is drivine for awhile, stopped, then won't start for awhile, then after sitting it will start. Updates welcome, for the archives. Good luck. > I'm working on my buddy's civic and having some trouble figuring what's > wrong. The car was running ok until he came out of the store and it > wouldn't start. After having it towed to my house I started to check > things over. His mechanic said it was the timing belt. Sounds like all > mechanics. I pulled the distributor and tried to start the motor to see if > the rotor turned. It did. I'm guessing that the timing belt is ok. I pulled > the spark plug to check for spark. I got spark. I checked the fuel pump > inside the gas tank and can hear it running. I checked the fuel lines [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has a PGM-FI > system on it. Any Ideals.... (Carburetor and PGM-FI? That's a post-o, isn't it?) > Dunno about the codes (engine flooded now?) but based on a lot of > reading here and experience with my own 1991 Civic LX sedan, the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > your car's info. Go to engine electrical, distributor, etc. for some > checks you can do on the ignitor. I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A failed ignitor would yield a no spark conditon, correct? > 2. > Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so I'd > lean towards 1. Also, it's usually an intermittent problem: The car is > drivine for awhile, stopped, then won't start for awhile, then after > sitting it will start. I'll second the main relay. The symptoms described by the original poster are classic for a failed main relay, i.e., park it, let it set 5-15 minutes, then no start. > Updates welcome, for the archives. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > motor to see if the rotor turned. It did. I'm guessing that the timing > > belt is ok. Just knowing that the cam turns will not tell you if the belt slipped a tooth or two. You may want to verify the mechanical timing. > > I pulled the spark plug to check for spark. I got spark. I checked the > > fuel pump inside the gas tank and can hear it running. I checked the > > fuel lines coming into the manifold for flow and pressure, Its OK. I > > finally read the codes off the computer. I got a #16) fuel injector > > system & #17) VSS error code. If I remember correctly, Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. > > Now the kicker is when I try to start the car it just turns and turns. > > Now if I pump the gas pedal as fast as I can the motor all but > > starts. As soon as I stop pumping, the engine dies. I then put some > > gas into the carburetor and tried starting the motor, no luck with that. Where did you put gas? There is no carburetor on a '91 Civic. > > This 91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has > > a PGM-FI system on it. Any Ideals.... > > (Carburetor and PGM-FI? That's a post-o, isn't it?) Eric > Caroline wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A failed > ignitor would yield a no spark conditon, correct? This point also came up a year or so ago. I thought there wasn't a clear consensus on it. Or we said it might depend on the specific failure within the ignitor. Can't remember. I could be wrong, re the spark. > > 2. > > Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so I'd [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'll second the main relay. The symptoms described by the original poster > are classic for a failed main relay, i.e., park it, let it set 5-15 minutes, I thought he implied the car is dead right now; it ain't starting no way no how. That's why I leaned towards the ignitor. > then no start. He hears the fuel pump running, no? Anyway, as always this should be interesting. Just because the pumps running doesn't mean there is enough fuel pressure. Need to put a noid light on the injector or a test light Steve >> Caroline wrote: >> > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Anyway, as always this should be interesting. > "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote snip > > I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A > failed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > failure within the ignitor. Can't remember. I could be wrong, re the > spark. Someone posted this link about Honda ignitors (among other things) today: http://techauto.tripod.com/s.htm It backs up Eric: Failed ignitor = no spark. Thanks guys for your help. Sorry for the confusion. I wrote I put gas into the carburetor meaning the throttle body /air intake plenum, after opening both butterflies. I would say it?s probably the original distributor ignitor. I have good spark, as well as I think plenty of fuel. After hearing the fuel pump in the tank running I wonted to double check so I removed the fuel pressure service fitting and turn the key. Gas shot out. After locating the main relay, I turned the key and could hear the relay opening and closing. The car has been sitting in my garage for about one week. I still have what I started with. The motor turns over but just wont start and run. As I mentioned before the main fuel relay is working. I put more gas down the intake and held the gas pedal to the floor. After about 1 minute of the engine turning over, the motor finally started and ran for about 5 minutes. While it was running I sprayed intake cleaner into it and worked the gas. I thought that everything was good now that it's running. Then it shut off and didn?t start back up. Before doing any of this I cleared the code in the computer. After it ran and shopped I checked the codes and got nothing?? > As I mentioned before the main fuel relay is working. I put more gas down > the intake and held the gas pedal to the floor. After about 1 minute of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > code in the computer. After it ran and shopped I checked the codes and got > nothing.. Not to stir up the evil spirits or anything, but if the problem isn't ignition and fuel in the intake didn't make it just go "vroom - putt putt" I am worried about the timing belt. If you pull the crank through all four cylinders (CCW, remember) do they all feel like solid compression and they spring past TDC, or does one or more feel soft? Of course, the real test of belt timing is to turn the crank to #1 TDC and look at the position of the cam sprocket(s). It sure sounds like a jumped belt to me. Mike > As I mentioned before the main fuel relay is working. I put more gas down > the intake and held the gas pedal to the floor. After about 1 minute of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > code in the computer. After it ran and shopped I checked the codes and got > nothing Try checking for vacuum leaks. Also check the engine's mechanical timing. Eric FYI. After one of the last messages saying if you put fuel into the intake and the motor didn?t start then you have a timing issue. I started to pull timing cover and checking alignment. Then checked over the distributor and rotor and noticed that somehow the rotor spun over the locking bolt. It seems that somehow the rotor got jammed and stopped rotating. After removing the entire distributor housing ( 3 bolts) I notice that the shaft that holds the rotor could wobble about ?? and the bushings were shot. My buddy spent about $200. on a refurbished unit. After installing the new distributor the car started right up. Only thing needed now is borrow a timing gun to check my installation. Thanks to all that replied. Thanks for the help and ideals on what to check. dont know if you were ever answered for this problem, I just had a problem with car not starting and was told that the crank shaft was the problem have you heard anything of this sort? try to start it will crank but not start Any ideas Ralph >I'm working on my buddy?s civic and having some trouble figuring what?s >wrong. The car was running ok until he came out of the store and it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has a PGM-FI >system on it. Any Ideals??.. |
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