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Car Forum / Honda Cars / November 2004black thingy on distributor?
Can anyone tell me what this black plastic circly thing is on the side of the distributor with two hoses coming off? i just found out that mine only has one hose and the other hole is open, perhaps this has something to do with the high idle speed? > Can anyone tell me what this black plastic circly thing is on the side > of the distributor with two hoses coming off? i just found out that mine > only has one hose and the other hole is open, perhaps this has something > to do with the high idle speed? based on your detailed description, i'd say it's definitely a.... dude, seriously, help us help you - need to say what make, model, year, etc. and try to be as specific as possible about the piece you're describing. all the component diagrams are online, numbered, and referenced to their names. if however you want us to use our magical intuititve powers to diagnose a problem with an unknown "thingy" on an unknown form of vehicle, i'd say, yes, there's a missing hose, and yes, it is responsible for high idle speed, when cold. also consider that cars that have an obvious fudge like this often have other much more serious problems and the fudge was needed to get it to work well enough for you to want to buy it. >> Can anyone tell me what this black plastic circly thing is on the side >> of the distributor with two hoses coming off? i just found out that [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > fudge like this often have other much more serious problems and the > fudge was needed to get it to work well enough for you to want to buy it. It certainly did have a few problems but for $200 it was well worth it, $100 later it passed WOF (or inspection) whatever you call it and it was on the road driving beautifully, well almost... > Can anyone tell me what this black plastic circly thing is on the side > of the distributor with two hoses coming off? i just found out that mine > only has one hose and the other hole is open, perhaps this has something > to do with the high idle speed? First, let me say that I share Jim Beam's frustration here. Now for the psychic diagnosis. I see an older car, late 70's or early 80's. Brown metallic with dings in the left front fender and a few rust spots. Rear license plate has one mounting screw missing. The little round thingy is vacuum advance for the distributor. There is a missing hose, and as a result your ignition timing is off as is the air/fuel mixture. Either could alter your idle speed, as could a host of other things. If I am spot on, credit my psychic powers, if I am dead wrong, blame your poor description. >>Can anyone tell me what this black plastic circly thing is on the side >>of the distributor with two hoses coming off? i just found out that mine [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If I am spot on, credit my psychic powers, if I am dead wrong, blame > your poor description. Sorry for the lack of info I was in a rush and totally forgot to mention the car type and whatever else might help. and I must say that was a fairly good diagnosis. Its an '85 integra 1600 dohc pgm-fi (ZC) 5 spd. theres only one plastic thingy coming off the distributor with two hoses on it and a vacuum advancy thingy sounds about right. the tachometer sometimes jumps around a bit and the car looses power any ideas on that? when its not happening the engine runs fine and sounds fine but it makes a rattle/knock sound when the tach bounces and it does it for a good 5 - 10 minutes or so, seems to be intermittent. btw its not just a missing hose, the part where the hose is supposed to go on the plastic thingy has been broken/melted or something so ill need a new plastic thingy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but PGM-FI is fuel injected. Integra's did come with a DOHC-CARB in 85, but the D16A9 (ZC) like the 4th Gen Civic SiR was PGM-FI. Also it's 1590cc. I don't recall there being an hoses in the side of the distributor, but there is an external condenser looking part with two wires going into the distributor. I don't think it's a vacuum advance since there is no carburetor, but fuel injected. You may be describing the distributor cap breather. It's the red rubber looking thing in left center of this picture: http://www.msdignition.com/np2002/images/pn82901_big.jpg Depending on the manufacturer of the cap it may vary. It would not effect your idle at all. Check your plugs and wires, for any excessive wear, and replace if necessary. If it still runs rough, check the distributor and rotor. The screw that locks the rotor on aftermarket rotors do not fit securely and loosen easily. The good ones (Honda OE) have Allen screws, not Philips screws (Bosch). This the most common problem I've seen with these engines. A rattle/knock could describe other problems, like low octane or a clogged injector. > Sorry for the lack of info I was in a rush and totally forgot to mention > the car type and whatever else might help. and I must say that was a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hose, the part where the hose is supposed to go on the plastic thingy > has been broken/melted or something so ill need a new plastic thingy. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but PGM-FI is fuel injected. Integra's did come > with a DOHC-CARB in 85, but the D16A9 (ZC) like the 4th Gen Civic SiR was > PGM-FI. Also it's 1590cc. I don't recall there being an hoses in the side > of the distributor, but there is an external condenser looking part with two > wires going into the distributor. I don't think it's a vacuum advance since > there is no carburetor, but fuel injected. There really is no reason a fuel injected car could not have vacuum advance on the distributor. Specifically, looking up the 1986 (the site does not show any 85's) Integra 3 door RS with 5 speed manual, 49 states on http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.com, it shows a distributor with a vacuum advance and it shows a throttle body and fuel injectors. > You may be describing the distributor cap breather. It's the red rubber > looking thing in left center of this picture: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > hose, the part where the hose is supposed to go on the plastic thingy > > has been broken/melted or something so ill need a new plastic thingy. "Caleb" wrote > Randolph wrote: > > Caleb wrote: > Its an '85 integra 1600 dohc pgm-fi (ZC) 5 spd. > the part where the hose is supposed to go on the plastic thingy > has been broken/melted or something so ill need a new plastic thingy. Vacuum Advance Diaphragm; design for power and economy. I've seen so many of them break off which raises the idle, retards ign, leans, then pings. DO NOT unplug the vac-hose here. They're used on Honda/Acura FI or carb from years 85 onto 89. 82 has one but not the same name but uses one vac-line. > "Caleb" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Honda/Acura FI or carb from years 85 onto 89. 82 has one but not the > same name but uses one vac-line. Ive done some checks, it is a vacuum advance thingy, i got a new replacement and put it on, now the idle is even higher! but while i was installing it i notices there was some oil inside the distributor. is this very bad? Ive checked the cylinder head and all the springs/tappets are fine. Im going to clean the distributor today and see how that goes. the oil was not in the part with the spinny plastic thing with the metal connetcor it was underneath the plastic cover. > > "Caleb" wrote > > Vacuum Advance Diaphragm; design for power and economy. I've > > seen so many of them break off which raises the idle, retards ign, > > leans, then pings. > Ive done some checks, it is a vacuum advance thingy, i got a new > replacement and put it on, now the idle is even higher! but while i was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the oil was not in the part with the spinny plastic thing with the metal > connetcor it was underneath the plastic cover. The oil in the distributor may account for the jumpy tach. The VAD rips open then vacuum sucks oil in from head to sensors. The reluctor picks up false signals and spikes the tach. Make sure shaft isn't wobby or sensor connection isn't saturated with oil. The idle drops when the hose broke off (and probably a rip diaphram inside the VAD) the ignition retards then someone raise the idle mixture to compensate. After the replacement the timng advances and the idle goes higher. Get a timing gun, reset the timing, reset ECU (unplug batt,) check for vac leaks then reset idle. If idle mixuter yellow ink mark isn't tampered then leave it alone. > > "Caleb" wrote > > Vacuum Advance Diaphragm; design for power and economy. I've > > seen so many of them break off which raises the idle, retards ign, > > leans, then pings. > Ive done some checks, it is a vacuum advance thingy, i got a new > replacement and put it on, now the idle is even higher! but while i was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the oil was not in the part with the spinny plastic thing with the metal > connetcor it was underneath the plastic cover. The oil in the distributor may account for the jumpy tach. The VAD rips open then vacuum sucks oil in from head to sensors. The reluctor picks up false signals and spikes the tach. Make sure shaft isn't wobby or sensor connection isn't saturated with oil. The idle drops when the hose broke off (and probably a rip diaphram inside the VAD) the ignition retards then someone raise the idle mixture to compensate. After the replacement the timng advances and the idle goes higher. Get a timing gun, reset the timing, reset ECU (unplug batt,) check for vac leaks then reset idle. If idle mixuter yellow ink mark isn't tampered then leave it alone. > > "Caleb" wrote > > Vacuum Advance Diaphragm; design for power and economy. I've > > seen so many of them break off which raises the idle, retards ign, > > leans, then pings. > Ive done some checks, it is a vacuum advance thingy, i got a new > replacement and put it on, now the idle is even higher! but while i was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the oil was not in the part with the spinny plastic thing with the metal > connetcor it was underneath the plastic cover. The oil in the distributor may account for the jumpy tach. The VAD rips open then vacuum sucks oil in from head to sensors. The reluctor picks up false signals and spikes the tach. Make sure shaft isn't wobby or sensor connection isn't saturated with oil. The idle drops when the hose broke off (and probably a rip diaphram inside the VAD) the ignition retards then someone raise the idle mixture to compensate. After the replacement the timng advances and the idle goes higher. Get a timing gun, reset the timing, reset ECU (unplug batt,) check for vac leaks then reset idle. If idle mixuter yellow ink mark isn't tampered then leave it alone. >>>"Caleb" wrote >>>Vacuum Advance Diaphragm; design for power and economy. I've [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > then reset idle. If idle mixuter yellow ink mark isn't tampered > then leave it alone. Thanks, it was the oil in the distributor that was causing the jumping tacho, I replaced the distributor and the VAD and it is running great now (apart from idle) I can do the timing and reset the ECU and check for leaks, but how do i reset the idle? and wheres the idle mixuter? another thing that happened was all this green liquid stuff sprayed out from one of the AC pipes while I was driving, I think there was supposed to be a black cap on there, Im assuming this is no problem to the car. > Thanks, it was the oil in the distributor that was causing the jumping > tacho, I replaced the distributor and the VAD and it is running great > now (apart from idle) I can do the timing and reset the ECU and check > for leaks, but how do i reset the idle? and wheres the idle mixuter? Odds are you don't have an idle-mixture adjustment, the PGM-FI system controls the mixture. There is an idle speed adjustment, but you need to know what you are doing before trying to adjust it. Typically adjusting idle speed on a fuel injected engine entails disabling one or more vacuum hoses and bypass valves etc., and then adjust to a certain RPM. The factory manual from http://www.helminc.com will have instructions. Haynes or Chiltons probably do too. One word of warning: On the throttle body there is a throttle stop screw that looks and works like the idle adjustment screw on a carburetor. Do not touch it. This is NOT where the idle is adjusted. This screw is factory adjusted, and the service manual has big warnings about all hell breaking loose if you touch it. > another thing that happened was all this green liquid stuff sprayed out > from one of the AC pipes while I was driving, I think there was supposed > to be a black cap on there, Im assuming this is no problem to the car. The black cap is just a dust cap, it covers a check valve in the refrigerant line. It seems your check valve broke. There would be no danger in driving the car, but do not turn on the A/C. If you want to have the A/C fixed, you may want to do it sooner rather than later. Freon (R12) is going up in price every season as supplies are exhausted. > > Thanks, it was the oil in the distributor that was causing the jumping > > tacho, I replaced the distributor and the VAD and it is running great > > now (apart from idle) I can do the timing and reset the ECU and check > > for leaks, but how do i reset the idle? and wheres the idle mixuter? > Odds are you don't have an idle-mixture adjustment, the PGM-FI system > controls the mixture. There is an idle speed adjustment, but you need to > know what you are doing before trying to adjust it. Randalph is right, there is no idle mixture. I'd mistaken. I was referring to the idle adjusting screw. >Typically adjusting idle speed on a fuel injected > engine entails disabling one or more vacuum hoses > and bypass valves etc., and then adjust to a certain RPM. > The factory manual from http://www.helminc.com will have > instructions. Haynes or Chiltons probably do too. Typical early Honda FI idle adjustment require disconnecting the EACV electrical connector then set idle adjusting screw on throttle body to 650-rpm +- 50 in neutral with no load. Shut off engine, reconnect the 2-pin connector, reset ECU and restart engine again. It should be at 750-rpm +- 50 with loads. Check Acura Helm manual for accuracy. Warning: Be sure no trapped air, fast idle, vac-leak, or cold sensor causing high idle problems and that the VAD is not from a junk yard and leaking. > One word of warning: On the throttle body there is a throttle stop screw > that looks and works like the idle adjustment screw on a carburetor. Do > not touch it. This is NOT where the idle is adjusted. This screw is > factory adjusted, and the service manual has big warnings about all hell > breaking loose if you touch it. Absolutely right. >>>Thanks, it was the oil in the distributor that was causing the jumping >>>tacho, I replaced the distributor and the VAD and it is running great [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Absolutely right. Thanks for the advice, I will try that today, What happens if i have adjusted the throttle stop screw? I put it back to where it was (well pretty close anyway) as it didnt seem to do anything. And what is the easiest way to replace the altenator? <snip> > >>One word of warning: On the throttle body there is a throttle stop screw > >>that looks and works like the idle adjustment screw on a carburetor. Do > >>not touch it. This is NOT where the idle is adjusted. This screw is > >>factory adjusted, and the service manual has big warnings about all hell > >>breaking loose if you touch it. > Thanks for the advice, I will try that today, What happens if i have > adjusted the throttle stop screw? I put it back to where it was (well > pretty close anyway) as it didnt seem to do anything. The stop screw is there so that the throttle will rest against the screw rather than rub against the inside wall of the throttle body. My Civic service manual does not say how to recover if one should have moved the screw, but the service manual for my brother's VW has a section on it. It goes something like this: 1. Loosen the lock nut and unscrew the throttle stop screw until it no longer touches the stop. 2. Stick a piece of paper between the screw and the stop and tighten the screw until you can just barely move the paper back and forth. 3. Remove the paper and tighten the screw 1/2 turn and tighten the lock nut. > Ive done some checks, it is a vacuum advance thingy, i got a new > replacement and put it on, now the idle is even higher! but while i was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the oil was not in the part with the spinny plastic thing with the metal > connetcor it was underneath the plastic cover. Odds are the previous owner mucked around with the idle speed setting while the vacuum advance system was out of comission. Perhaps you need to get your hands on a service manual and set both the ignition timing and the idle speed according to factory procedure. |
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