 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2005i think my joint is damaged on the wheel, but not sure
Hi guys, I am not sure what the name of part that is damaged. I had a new belt installed on my A/C compressor, and the guy said that I needed to get my left wheel fixed. The rubber is broken off as you can see in the picture, but what I am trying to do is figure out the name of the part that I need to buy, and get replaced. I am not sure if this is something I can do, as I bet you need special tools, and I don't want to mess something up. What does it look like is appeared to be wrong? and if so would you know how much it should cost me? the guy said it will cost about $200 + parts. I rather buy the parts, because I know it will be cheaper than if I get them off them, as they always jack up the prices. Thanks http://mopa.net/fotos/left-wheel-joint.jpg > http://mopa.net/fotos/left-wheel-joint.jpg That's your "outer CV joint"! At this point the safest thing to do is get the whole driveshaft replaced. A qualified mechanic would be able to tell you if you can get away with just replacing the boot. It would depend on the condition of the joint. Once dirt and water gets in, it will wreck itself fairly quickly. Mind if I use your pic on my Web site? And hey people, THIS is why you need to check your boots at every oil change!  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > http://mopa.net/fotos/left-wheel-joint.jpg By the way, it would be a good idea to spend 50 cents to put a rubber cap back on the bleeder screw. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Hi guys, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://mopa.net/fotos/left-wheel-joint.jpg That's a great picture! As TeGGeR says, the axle needs to be replaced. Shop around - $200 (US?) plus parts is very high. My local shop charged $65 US plus parts when I didn't have air tools. Even the dealer quoted slightly over $300 US parts (new!) and labor with tax. The axle should be under $100 US exchange (don't damage the threads if you DIY). Some places will try to sell you an alignment with it - replacing the axle does *not* affect the alignment. Unless the handling is squirrelly or the tires are wearing funny already, refuse the alignment. Mike Mike Thanks TeGGeR, and Michael. Well, what is the name of all the part that I would need to get this completely fixed, and the prices of those parts. I will then have to get someone to install them for me, as this seems to be work, and I don't frankly want to screw anything up. We are talking about driving here, not just a easy change a bulb fix. :O( Tegger, oh your more then free to use my pictures, as I know you do this kind of stuff all the time to help people out. I just went outside and took some better pictures for you to use for your website. just goto: http://mopa.net/fotos/car What is the name of the rubber cap that goes on the bleeder screw? or should I just stop at the store and ask for a rubber cap for my bleeder screw? I guess that would be best. Oh, BTW, what screw is the bleeder screw anyways? is that something that its very important that there is a cap on it? To get the entire driveshaft replaced would cost a lot of money I would think huh? unfortunately, I lost my job, and only have about $400 in savings that I could use to fix the car, and yeah it has to be fixed. I don't want to worry about it braking down, because there is no way I can go without a car. Everything here is very far, as I live in Atlanta. I drive about 2000 miles a month. The CV joint doesn't seem to be damaged, thank God, but that rubber is completely cracked off. Is there anyway I could get a new piece of rubber for it? and if so what would I even ask for? I just don't want water or dirt to get in their like you said. Thanks so much! John > Thanks TeGGeR, and Michael. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > don't frankly want to screw anything up. We are talking about driving > here, not just a easy change a bulb fix. :O( The part that is torn is the CV joint boot, and the part underneath is the CV (for Constant Velocity) joint. It works like a u-joint (universal joint) in that it flexes in two dimensions while transmitting torque, but the magic part is that a u-joint doesn't transmit the movement linearly when it is flexed - it whips between the 90 degree points. A CV joint moves smoothly all the way. > Tegger, oh your more then free to use my pictures, as I know you do > this kind of stuff all the time to help people out. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Oh, BTW, what screw is the bleeder screw anyways? is that something > that its very important that there is a cap on it? The bleeder screw is used to bleed the brakes. The cap keeps dirt out when the brakes are bled. > To get the entire driveshaft replaced would cost a lot of money I would > think huh? unfortunately, I lost my job, and only have about $400 in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks so much! > John The degree of damage to the CV joint can be guaged by making a slow turn with the steering all the way left or right and your window down. A damaged joint makes a distinctive rucka-rucka sound, with worse degrees of damage showing up as pops and sharp clacks. My recommendation is always to replace the assembly - called an axle shaft or drive axle - because they are the cheapest way to do a *quality* repair. I also recommend doing both sides because when one fails, the other is not far behind. But since money is really tight now, you can do the quick and dirty (especially dirty!) semi-repair. At auto parts stores you can buy "split boot" kits to replace the original boot. I haven't bought one but would expect to pay between $20 and $40 US. It will have a two piece boot (like the original, but split lengthwise), a big packet of grease and instructions. Essentially, you cut away the old boot, clean out as much of the old grease as humanly possible, smoosh as much of the new grease into the works as possible and put the rest in the boot, then clamp the new boot clamshell fashion over the CV joint. Did I mention this is all done while you are under the car? You're gonna love it. But it will stop the destruction of the CV joint from going much farther and not hit the savings too badly. If the CV joint hasn't reached the pop/clack stage you can go a long time with a split boot repair, and with luck and gentle driving a even a fairly bad joint should hold you until you get some money coming in. Mike Wow, Mike, Your the greatest man. Thanks. Yes, the CV Joint isn't making any weird noices or anything that sounds like damage. Honestly, I just think what it is that the car is 12 years old and the rubber just slowly started to rot away and it just cracked apart. The grease seems fine, and I don't have any problems with turning the steering wheel while driving fast or slow. It's just the guy at the shop said it needed to be fixed, and I know how these small shops are, they just want more money. I honestly don't feel like fixing anything unless its a must. I bought this 1993 Honda Civic Lx last year (June 2004) for $1,900 from a women in Charleston, South Carolina, and she gave me all the paper work. So far this is all what has been done to the car. March 1998 (new battery) April 1999 (New Wheel Bearings) October 1999 (CK Muffler & Gasket) October 1999 (Pipe & Spout) Whatever that is In June 2004 - (Rack & Pinon Replaced, P/S Flush, Dist Rotor, Cap, Plug Wires, Replaced bearings in both rear wheels, repaired two heat shield, replaced both rear hub brdgs, replaced A/C Tenisor, Replaced all belts, replaced both C/V Shafts Align, Replaced Fear/Front Shoes and turn rotors) Total spent in repairs from 10/2002 to 06/2004 was $4,689.81 After I bought the car at the end of June, it must because she spent so much money and didn't want to spend anymore. Her paperwork stated it needed a timing belt changed, and that is when she sold it. July 2004 the Timing belt was placed, all of the Gaskets on the entire engine were replaced, new tires, belts, and ever since I only been using Castrol Synthetic Oil for my car, because I have always heard its the best, and even though its expensive, its well worth it. Three months ago I replaced the radiator, and now two weeks ago I installed a A/C compressor. I am hoping that since it said the C/V Shafts were replaced, that my C/V's should last a while. Now, what is the different between SHAFTS? and Joints? (shafts must be a stick or something, hehe) Thanks > Wow, Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Thanks The CV shafts would be the same as the axle shafts - the CV joints are fastened to the shafts to make the assembly that is usually replaced. I'm not sure about regional differences in terminology (like if you are in the UK you'd carry things home in the boot instead of the trunk) but I've always called them axle shafts. The first CV joint I ever did was on our '84 Dodge, and I elected to buy regular boots and repack the joints - kind of the worst of both worlds as far as work goes. I pulled the shaft out and disassembled the two CV joints (inner and outer) to clean them out thoroughly. I learned a lot but I don't recommend anybody getting that involved. That outer CV joint is a mechanical marvel. You will see it is a center ball with grooves running lengthwise for the large balls that couple the two pieces, and the other end of the joint has a cage that the balls fit into. My description doesn't do it justice. I don't know how the balls end up lining up perfectly on the plane that bisects the angle the joint makes. Somehow I got the two pieces apart and somehow I got them back together, and the mysterious magical ball alignment took care of itself. Mike i dont know if anyone noticed this, but this dollar amount seems excessive; 4689.81 for 2 years worth of maintenance? you say here that the CV shafts were replaced in 2004, why would the CV joints go bad in 2005? could the shafts possibly be replaced without putting in new boots? I dont see how a reputable mechanic would do that. [quote] In June 2004 - (Rack & Pinon Replaced, P/S Flush, Dist Rotor, Cap, Plug Wires, Replaced bearings in both rear wheels, repaired two heat shield, replaced both rear hub brdgs, replaced A/C Tenisor, Replaced all belts, replaced both C/V Shafts Align, Replaced Fear/Front Shoes and turn rotors) Total spent in repairs from 10/2002 to 06/2004 was $4,689.81 [/quote] by the way, i dont think you mentioned the milage on this civic, can you tell us that? Fish >Wow, Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Thanks Fish, I know, yeah, well it seems that maybe the salt water could in fact eaten the rubber from the boot maybe? she lived just miles away from the ocean. That is kinda what my point is now, the CV cannot be bad, I sure would hope not if they were replaced last year. The women who I bought the car had only had the car for about 3 years, spent almost 5k in repairing almost everything, and then got pregnant with her third child, and sold the car because her and the family needed a bigger car, as she claimed. This women was a CPA, and her husband is a realtor. They just bought a new Dodge Durango, and wasn't driving the civic. It's a 1993 LX model. For having the car say 3 years, they only drived it about 10k miles. I bought it with around 158,000K, and now it has 182,000K (damn, i put 24k miles in 13 months) Anyways, Fish, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't replace the boot, because where this women took her car in always did a pretty crappy, and lazy job on it. The women spent like $1,500 on a paint job, and when I picked up the car from her it had almost no paint on it. For $1000 you can get a decent paint job at MAACO. ---- disallow, I honestly, do not know how long I have been driving the car without the boot. I just had my car realigned about 1 month ago, and who knows, no one ever said anything at the shop, until I had my belt replaced for my A/C and the guy told me about it. The car does not make any noises, so that is all good. I don't know everything about cars, but I would assume, it handles good, it drives just fine, and nothing seems to be wrong other than the boot is split. If you look at this picture: http://mopa.net/fotos/car/DSC09972.jpg Your notice their is a lot of grease on the CV Joint, so this must of happend within a very short amount of time. Now, you say I need the inner and outside boot. How would I even install a inner boot? I don't even see where its located, sounds like I would have to remove the CV joint and I wouldn't trust myself enough to do that. Is there anyway the boot can be slide over or something without having to remove stuff, and may in fact make it worse than it already is? Thanks I realize that the joint is not making noise now, HOWEVER that doesn't mean that wear did not already occur which will require a complete driveshaft replacement! Here are the scenarios: 1. Cost = approx $50. Replace the boots on the driveshaft. This will require complete removal of the driveshaft, as well as disassembly of the inner CV joint (its a piece of cake if you have the manual, a ball joint separator, and a 32mm socket with breaker bar) You CANNOT put the outer boot on without removing the inner joint. There are kits out there that come in 2 pieces, and you can glue the 2 halves of the boot together, but these are ill advised as they tend to wear out within a year or so. Also, if your outer joint did wear and just wasn't making noise yet, then suddenly develops this problem, you'll be back to square 1, you have to replace the driveshaft, and you just wasted your valuable time and money on CV boots. 2. Cost = approx $75 - replace the whole driveshaft. The same effort to remove the driveshaft as in scenario 1, however, no monkeying around with boots and grease and inner joints and trying to get all the damn grease out. Much easier, cleaner, and DEFINITELY THE WAY TO GO!!! for not alot of extra dough. and if you aren't confident enough to tackle the job yourself, it will cost you about an hour of labour at your local shop. t >Fish, > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >Thanks PS, I noticed in your pic that the area is COATED in grease from the CV joint. This means that there is probably about NONE left where it is needed. I stand by my recommendation to replace the whole driveshaft! t :) >I realize that the joint is not making noise now, HOWEVER that doesn't mean >that wear did not already occur which will require a complete driveshaft [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> >>Thanks The CV Shaft is the same as the whole Driveshaft right? The women replaced the CV Shafts both in June of 2004, so hopefully the driveshaft is something completely different, because it cost the women $800 to replace the CV shafts, and I sure don't have that. So I need this thing? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7984581227 This is the left side, which isn't priced bad at all. The only problem is I looked online at and they want: Drivershaft Right $270.46 & Left $273 on this website http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com There is no way I can afford spending like $600 almost, plus labor. > The CV Shaft is the same as the whole Driveshaft right? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > There is no way I can afford spending like $600 almost, plus labor. Call your local auto parts discount house. A rebuilt shaft is usually about $100. is the driving shaft the same as the CV shaft? I would assume its not. So I know need CV shafts, driving shafts, and new boots? > is the driving shaft the same as the CV shaft? I would assume its not. > > So I know need CV shafts, driving shafts, and new boots? A rebuilt drive shaft, CV shaft, or whatever you choose to call it will come with new boots installed, and with a new locknut for the shaft end. I just checked the otherside of my car and now noticed that the other boot has the same problem. It appears that when the remove had the CV joints replaced, that the idiots didn't change the boots, it makes no sense at all, but its true. For a car that's 13 years old, you would expect that they would, but I guess they are lazy. I stopped at a place today, and the guy said I should be good. He'll replace the boots for just $50+ parts. How does that sound? Thanks This means 1 of 2 things. Either the person who sold you the car is full of sh.t and never replaced the CV shafts, or they replaced them with very poor quality replacement axles. You can't change the driveshafts (or CV Shafts, or Half Shafts, they are all the same part called different things!) without doing the CV boots. It just wouldn't happen. They are part of the shaft! And you don't seem to be listening. Your boots are not just cracked, they are TOAST. And you can't even tell us how long they have been like that for. THIS MEANS that you need to replace the driveshafts. PERIOD. You can spend you $50+ parts (probably will end up being about $100), but the cv joints will inevitably start clicking in the not to distant future, indicating that they are shot too. Now your back to your shop, and unloading another $200-350. Waste your money if you want (on just the boots) but don't come crying when your in worse shape soon. Why not take a look at a manual to see how important these parts actually are? A little education can be a good thing. t >I just checked the otherside of my car and now noticed that the other >boot has the same problem. It appears that when the remove had the CV [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Thanks > This means 1 of 2 things. Either the person who sold you the car is full > of [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > when > your in worse shape soon. The OP is in a tight financial bind at the moment (gleaned from an earlier post) so going the split-boot route makes sense if he has no recourse. It is a case where "pay me later" is a lot better than "pay me now." Other than that, I completely agree with you - replacement axle shafts is the way to go. Mike >I just checked the otherside of my car and now noticed that the other > boot has the same problem. It appears that when the remove had the CV [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks How much for the parts? I have never heard of boots going bad within a year, and certainly not both sides. It makes no sense at all to replace only the CV joints and not the boots, because torn boots are pretty much the only reason for a CV joint to go bad. Something is very wrong... those CV joints were not changed last year. I have had boots go out in about 5 years in Phoenix, where the heat is absolutely brutal, but 10 years is a more typical life span. Perhaps taking the car to the shop that supposedly performed the service (if you have the receipts or can get them) will get you some satisfaction. It's a cheap thing to try. Maybe an approach like you saw those things obvously bad and wanted to know how much to get it fixed and how long the new ones should last, then bring out the receipts. Mike > I just checked the otherside of my car and now noticed that the other >boot has the same problem. It appears that when the remove had the CV >joints replaced, that the idiots didn't change the boots, it makes no >sense at all, but its true. For a car that's 13 years old, you would >expect that they would, but I guess they are lazy. It's obvious that the woman was ripped off. So froget about what was doen and what was not. > I stopped at a place today, and the guy said I should be good. He'll > replace the boots for just $50+ parts. How does that sound? How much would the part be? You really should consider replacing the whole thing, i.e CV shaft (see the link below) by buying a rebuilt one as someone suggested in this thread. I did google search Read at http://www.trustmymechanic.com/parts_gallery/cv_boot.htm Oh yeah,and mike, getting dirty is no thing to me. I am always under my car doing something. I just replaced the headlights, and the A/C so I been under there quite a bit. Now this week I gotta change my oil. 3 weeks ago I changed the fuel filter. Anyways, how often should that be changed? > Oh yeah,and mike, getting dirty is no thing to me. I am always under my > car doing something. I just replaced the headlights, and the A/C so I > been under there quite a bit. Now this week I gotta change my oil. > > 3 weeks ago I changed the fuel filter. Anyways, how often should that > be changed? Keep your fuel tank full all the time and you can leave the fuel filter practically forever. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >Keep your fuel tank full all the time and you can leave the fuel filter practically forever. Really? I didn't know that. Why is that the case? >>Keep your fuel tank full all the time and you can leave the fuel >>filter practically forever. > > Really? I didn't know that. Why is that the case? It keeps water to a minimum in your tank. Water in your tank gets into the lines, causing rust. That water and rust ends up in your fuel filter, and then the water gets in the system downstream from the filter, which means the regulator and injectors. No water, no rust. No water, no frozen fuel lines in the winter, no stuck fuel regulators. Also, letting the tank run down allows the fuel pickup to suck up crud from the bottom of the tank. Most of that is caught by the bag filter on the fuel pickup, but each time you drive, a few more particles sneak through, eventually being trapped by the fuel filter. If the tank is kept full, the pickup is drawing fuel from well above the bottom of the tank, so the chance of picking up crud is greatly minimized. My tank is *never* allowed to sit overnight with less than 3/4 of a tank. It's usually filled up all the way before I park for the night. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > My tank is *never* allowed to sit overnight with less than 3/4 of a tank. >It's usually filled up all the way before I park for the night. I am getting a new car tomorrow. I'll do the same. Thanks for the info and tips. > If the CV joint hasn't reached the > pop/clack stage you can go a long time with a split boot repair, and > with luck and gentle driving a even a fairly bad joint should hold you > until you get some money coming in. Actually, you can drive it until the vibration starts to loosen your fillings. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> If the CV joint hasn't reached the >> pop/clack stage you can go a long time with a split boot repair, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Actually, you can drive it until the vibration starts to loosen your > fillings. Actually, the only one I've heard of separating was in a Ford Escort my second son had when he was in Montana. The joint itself is about the size of an apple and it's hard to imagine one of them separating, but now that I know they can I don't want to give someone too much confidence. I believe as long as it hasn't reached the pop/clack stage it can go on a very long time with new grease and a new boot, but I'd hate for anybody to bet their safety on my say-so about it. I sure do wonder where it broke, though. Maybe where the cage is attached to the shaft? Mike Just looking at the pic, #1 thing I notice is that this is NOT an OEM boot. (they are traditionally a little tougher and don't crack as easily). #2 is that there does not appear to be any other tell tale cracks in the boot, meaning that this malfunction of the boot was caused by an outside force puncturing the boot itself. That really sucks! Depending on how long you have gone without the boot, you could possibly get away with doing just the outer boot. However, in order to do the outer boot, the inner boot has to be removed anyways, as the outer boot slides onto the shaft from the inside, once the inner boot and inner joint are removed. If you have gone for longer than 1 week like this, I would suggest a complete replacement of the driveshaft. OEM boot kits will probably run you about $30 for outer and $30 for inner (you might as well replace the inner if you have to remove it, they get very brittle and it will probably need to be replaced after removal) If you decide to go the boot replacement method, one tip I have is that in order to get ALL of the grease out of the joint, take the driveshaft to the carwash or use a pressure washer to clean the outer joint really thoroughly. Then let it dry well, use compressed air to get all the water out. The grease they send with the boot kit does not like other types of grease, and can cause problems if you don't clean it out properly. I tried to do it in a bath tub and a parts cleaner tub, but they didn't work. Actually, the instructions that came with my non-OEM boots for my 87 prelude gave me this little tip.... :) t >>> If the CV joint hasn't reached the >>> pop/clack stage you can go a long time with a split boot repair, and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Mike When I got my old Nissan (got rid of it in 1997) from my sister in 1995 - it was 87 model - she told me about the axel problem. The noise was small and I ignored it and drove it until in mid 1996 when the noise got louder. I changed the axel then. I put a new one at Mineke (came with warranty though but on an old car, probably not worth spending that much) because I didn't know that about rebuild one. Mike, They have a place here in Georgia, and you pay $125 dollars, and you get a unlimited amount of alignments for 3 years, and they recommend getting one every 9 months or so. So your car is always driving straight, unlike most people's car anyway. I guess it wouldn't hurt to drop it off and have them realignment the car again, after all I paid for it for the next three years, it couldn't hurt. Oh Tegger? its the rubber on the CV is called a boot? so, but I guess there is no way I could slide that baby on there. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.