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Car Forum / Honda Cars / September 2005carburetors that allow you to drive 1000+ miles to the gallon
I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off the investors with millions of dollars to secure those patents, and then burired those patents and never used the technology? But the thing is it would cost the automotive industry billions of dollars in profits. Now thats very messed up, but I don't blame them. They want money! What role does a carburetor have anyways? honestly, is there anyway a carburetor could allow us to burn our gas slowly, so we could save gas, but still be able to drive at our road speeds? and have gas last much longer? Very interesting stuff > I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car > run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Very interesting stuff I don't see how a carburetor alone could increase mileage by that extraordinary amount, but I do know about, and have heard of, that the technology exists to make V8 engines get over 100 MPG, and like you said, the oil and auto industries paid off the inventors to keep them quiet. Where did you see this information about this carburetor? Jonathan P.S. I read something in Car & Driver Magazine a few years ago that Honda invented a 4-cylinder engine that could produce 900HP, but there is no clutch or transmission that will bolt onto a 4-cylinder engine block that could handle that much power. Also, of course, there is no way it could be street-legal. Yeah, well like I say all the time anything is possible. Anyways, in United States we have millions of engeers, and many other countries do too, but we have the most. Anyhow, I know damn well they have a way to make our cars use less gas and oil, but look how high these gas prices are? I mean come on the people who invest in oil companies are making millions of dollars with their shares of stock. I remember when I was in Atlanta, Ga visiting the gas there was only, and quote me on it, only 67 cents a gallon!!! Gasoline will never in the history of man be .67 cents a gallon, and we are only taking about 1997. That's only 8 years ago. Gas prices probably from the 1960's to 1990's were always in the two digit number in the south I bet. That's 30 years of cheap gas, and now look at it, BAM its $2.90 a gallon! The problem is the automobile industry is the largest in the country. It's great that people got jobs, but hell, these guys who own these companies are actually just having people lose their job. Thousands of good hard-working-busting-their-a.s guys have worked, and lost their jobs. The automobile industry, must have a contract with the oil industry, and do a lot of a.s kissing for eachother, so they can both enjoy the billions. Wow, a 4-cylinder engine that could produce 900HP it's possible, just look at computers. Back in 1993 I had my first computer that was a AMD K2 155MHZ Processor with about 2gb hdd, and back in those days it was the sh.t. Now 12 years later we have 3GIG processors, and the supercomputers are even quicker. If you can make a simple processor, and keep it pretty much the exact same as it was before, but just overclock it over and over. It's possible to make a 4 cylinder engine have 900 horses in it or have a V8 get 100 miles to the gallon. It's possible, but THEY just don't want us to know about it. Where did you see this information about this carburetor? (It's not information your find on the internet websites, because if you did they would be sued by the automobile industry in minutes. I am reading a book called " Natural Cures They Don't Want You To Know About" It's a great book, and sadly, it's just about all true. > Yeah, well like I say all the time anything is possible. Anyways, in > United States we have millions of engeers, and many other countries do > too, but we have the most. Anyhow, I know damn well they have a way to > make our cars use less gas and oil, but look how high these gas prices > are? They've never been lower than they are now, mopa. Tax levels and currency debasement confuse the numbers. > I mean come on the people who invest in oil companies are making > millions of dollars with their shares of stock. I remember when I was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Gasoline will never in the history of man be .67 cents a gallon, and we > are only taking about 1997. That's only 8 years ago. Either your memory is /seriously/ faulty or you came across a station having one of those mega-sales that the oil companies won't pay them for. In 1995 I paid an average of about $1.80 US per US gallon (I have all my gas fillups listed in a book).  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Either your memory is /seriously/ faulty or you came across a station > having one of those mega-sales that the oil companies won't pay them for. > > In 1995 I paid an average of about $1.80 US per US gallon (I have all my > gas fillups listed in a book). Mmmm, that's strange. I have all the gas records for my 1993 Accord. Until November of 2004. it spent its first 11 years of life in New Jersey. In 1995 we paid between $1.00 and $1.15 per gallon(U.S. $'s) and ss late as March 1999 we paid as little as $0.859. That was in extreme Northern NJ near the NY state border, Rich Rich, Yeah, I remember. Back in 2000 I was in NYC for Christmas, and gas was only about $1.26 and that is pretty cheap for New York. ---- TeGGeR, gas is always more in Hapeville, which is right outside Forest Park. Hapeville is where the Atlanta Airport is located, and the gas is always cheaper. Say right now in Hapeville if the gas is $2.30, in north Georgia near the smaller cities gas ia about $2.05 It's very weird how they setup those gas prices, but they do. >Rich, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Park. Hapeville is where the Atlanta Airport is located, and the gas is >always cheaper. cheapest gas in that area is a short drive away. The quik-trip on US19 in jonesboro (jump on I75 to Exit235, and follow US19/41 for about 2 miles. it was 2.03 iirc on friday >Say right now in Hapeville if the gas is $2.30, in north Georgia near >the smaller cities gas ia about $2.05 Its 2.12/gallon in central georgia, in the griffin/barenesville/thomaston area. Cheaper still around the Thomasville area, just in georgia on the florida border. >It's very weird how they setup those gas prices, but they do. > Gas prices probably from the 1960's to 1990's were always in the two > digit number in the south I bet. That's 30 years of cheap gas, and now > look at it, BAM its $2.90 a gallon! What amazes me is what people are willing to pay for water. A 500 mL bottle at $1.00 makes the price to be $7.57/gallon. Now that's pretty steep! Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "mopa" <buttakid@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: alt.autos.honda Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 5:12 PM Subject: Re: carburetors that allow you to drive 1000+ miles to the gallon > Yeah, well like I say all the time anything is possible. Anyways, in > United States we have millions of engeers, and many other countries do [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > in Atlanta, Ga visiting the gas there was only, and quote me on it, > only 67 cents a gallon!!! <snip> > The problem is the automobile industry is the largest in the country. > It's great that people got jobs, but hell, these guys who own these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > industry, and do a lot of a.s kissing for eachother, so they can both > enjoy the billions. If you really feel that way, you should buy stock in oil companies. Mike > The problem is the automobile industry is the largest in the country. > It's great that people got jobs, but hell, these guys who own these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > industry, and do a lot of a.s kissing for eachother, so they can both > enjoy the billions. Actually electronics surpassed automobiles some time ago. You are a naive fool, plump for the picking by any conspiracy theory or crackpot of the hour. Unfortunately, history is chock full of gullible masses. John Be nice now John. So Michael, that means by going slowing in your car, you actually save more gas huh? I just assumed if everyone drove the same MPG for a long distance we would all save gas. Say, if you drove non-stop on the express way going 70MPH for 1 hour or drove 55MPH for 1 hour, of course you would get where ever your going quicker going 70, but because you drove non-stop, at the same miles per hour, without stop and going. Your car continuously was traveling at the same steady speed, would both speeds use the same amount of gasoline? > Be nice now John. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the same steady speed, would both speeds use the same amount of > gasoline? I don't think I described it clearly. I've driven the 55 and 65 mph stretches long enough to get several 5 minute readings on the display (known to be about 4% optimistic in our Prius) and compared those to the readings from our 75 mph trips. No doubt about it - the best average mpg comes from keeping a constant speed, and as low a speed as practical. Air resistance is really a big factor. But varying speeds gives the worst of both worlds: higher speeds burn gasoline you won't get back and lower speeds burn time you won't get back. Mike >> Be nice now John. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >to be about 4% optimistic in our Prius) and compared those to the readings >from our 75 mph trips. Car computers are very variable. Nowhere is this better illustrated, than on Top gear a year or two ago, when the presenter drove an Audi A8 from london to edinburgh and back on a single tank (thats around 400 miles, in a 4l V8 twin turbo diesel). Not only did the computer say he was low on fuel too early, but that he'd completely run out around milton keynes, an hour or so short. >No doubt about it - the best average mpg comes from keeping a constant >speed, and as low a speed as practical. Air resistance is really a big >factor. But varying speeds gives the worst of both worlds: higher speeds >burn gasoline you won't get back and lower speeds burn time you won't get >back. low a speed as practical is not true. It comes from keeping at the peak torque point. I used to do economy runs in my old volvo, its most efficient speed was 58mph, because that was how the gearing worked out to be the engines peak torque point, in the top gear. now, you could actually cheat a bit and extend it, by going right behind a HGV (semi for the americans) and holding steady at their limited speed 9usually about 62-63mph). I think i managed to get about 55-60mpg from my volvo in this way, thats in a 15yo car, with 4 passengers. Peak torque rpm point is always the point where the engine works most efficiently. thats how come its the peak torque point. >Mike >>I don't think I described it clearly. I've driven the 55 and 65 mph >>stretches long enough to get several 5 minute readings on the display [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > say he was low on fuel too early, but that he'd completely run out > around milton keynes, an hour or so short. Computers in carbureted cars and older injected cars have a lot of variables (especially analog transducers to measure air or fuel flow), but the computers in modern injected cars are very accurate - more accurate than calculating on the basis of one or two fill-ups. The ECU knows exactly how long it is opening the injectors (how many crystal-controlled clock cycles), and exactly how often. The distance comes from the VSS in exactly the same accuracy the car's odometer has, so the only variables are fuel pressure and injector lag. Prius owners have reported errors ranging from 2% to a shade over 5% optimistic. (Interesting that none report their displays being pessimistic.) I don't recall any saying their display was 10% or more off the actual unless they were comparing a single tank based on when the pump clicked off. Mike >No doubt about it - the best average mpg comes from keeping a constant >speed, and as low a speed as practical. Air resistance is really a big >factor. But varying speeds gives the worst of both worlds: higher speeds >burn gasoline you won't get back and lower speeds burn time you won't get >back. There's more to it than that, gearing and powerbands make a difference. Fuel consumption's finite, it'll take a certain amount of energy to maintain any speed. Reduced wind and rolling resistance will reduce the energy needed, then it's just to how efficient the engine is at that RPM in converting fuel to energy. I used to get 34MPG at 70MPH with a 1962 Oldsmobile F-85 with a 215 V8 and a 4bbl carburetor. Most cars today can't get that sort of mileage with fuel injection and half the cylinders. So much for 40 years of engineering. > P.S. I read something in Car & Driver Magazine a few years ago that Honda > invented a 4-cylinder engine that could produce 900HP, but there is no > clutch or transmission that will bolt onto a 4-cylinder engine block that > could handle that much power. Also, of course, there is no way it could > be street-legal. Uh-huh. Honda invented the engine, but couldn't figure out how to build a transmission? Pul-leeze. The turbocharged F1 cars of the early '80's put down 1500 BHP from 1.5 litre four cylinders. Hi Tegger, Oh no, I am just trying to learn a little, and your always very helpful. I am glad that there is someone on the group that knows so much. Anyways, back in 1997 I came down to visit my sister in Atlanta, Georgia and at the time I didn't drive. I was only 17 years old at the time, so that is why I remember there is a QT and a BP gas station where she lived at the time and the gas was only 67 cents, and I swear I never seen gas so damn cheap in my life. I am originally from Milwaukee, and gas is always about 90 cents cheaper than it is in Chicago as Chicago is one of the most expensive cities for gas. Even growing up as a kid gas always used to be about 1.25/1.60 in the low/mid 90's, but that is also when you could buy a gallon of milk for $2 dollars and some change. Anyways, I was amazed how cheap the gas was here in Georgia. My ex's father actually is the Director of the Department of Energy, so if anyone knows anything about Gasoline prices or anything to do with energy costs, hes the guy to ask. Basically, out of all the states Georgia has the cheapest Taxes on Gasoline. What most people don't know, that for every gallon of gasoline, about 75 cents of it is just the tax. Talk about a lot of money being just paid for tax. Today the cheapest gas price is $1.98 a gallon, and the national average is $2.30, so I guess we are doing pretty good. ------ Steve, wow that sure is a lot of horse power. > Hi Tegger, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > where she lived at the time and the gas was only 67 cents, and I swear > I never seen gas so damn cheap in my life. I was at the Ford plant in Hapeville in 1998. Gas was nowhere near 67¢, trust me on that. > I am originally from Milwaukee, and gas is always about 90 cents > cheaper than it is in Chicago as Chicago is one of the most expensive > cities for gas. And do you know...why? There are regional regulations involving oxygenation and reformulation. These tend to jack up prices. Then there are local tax laws. I haven't been to Chicago since about the mid-'90s, and I don't remember what the gas price was there then. > What most people don't know, that for every gallon of gasoline, about > 75 cents of it is just the tax. Talk about a lot of money being just > paid for tax. http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/oecd.htm SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Hi Tegger, >> >There are regional regulations involving oxygenation and reformulation. >These tend to jack up prices. Then there are local tax laws. I think most would agree that California has the worst of these. In February, 1998 in San Diego the average was $1.29 according to http://www.fueltracker.com/whitepaper8-98/gasfinal.html. Cheap fuel was a largely ignored economic factor through most of the 90's. I remember news stories about gasoline prices below a dollar in GA. I don't personally recall anything less than $1.09 locally, but we only have three supplying refineries and two companies running those, so competition's not keen. >> I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car >> run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > said, the oil and auto industries paid off the inventors to keep them > quiet. Where did you see this information about this carburetor? Any fuel has a certain amount of stored potential energy. Burning that fuel can release that much energy and no more. It takes a given amount of energy to move a given amount of weight. A fancy carburetor can't get more energy out of the fuel than it already contains, or reduce the amount needed to move the car. Usually you get a substantial amount less power out because of improper combustion, and improved combustion can make for more efficient energy production, but not THAT much more efficient. > P.S. I read something in Car & Driver Magazine a few years ago that > Honda invented a 4-cylinder engine that could produce 900HP, but there > is no clutch or transmission that will bolt onto a 4-cylinder engine > block that could handle that much power. Also, of course, there is no > way it could be street-legal. CHAMP cars (the open-wheel racers used by CART) use a 2.65 liter V-8 (8 cylinders, but barely more displacement than my Accord) that get around 750hp. They burn straight methanol tho... --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0535-3, 09/02/2005 Tested on: 9/3/2005 1:08:07 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com > I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car > run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off > the investors with millions of dollars Sorry, the conspiracy theorists have hoodwinked you once again. Simple physics says there is NO way you could ever achieve 1000mpg with ANY gasoline (or diesel, or propane, or...) technology as long as approximately 80% of the energy is lost to heat and friction. > to secure those patents, and > then burired those patents and never used the technology? You cannot "bury" a patent. Every patent ever granted is accessible to the public at the various Patent Offices in various countries. I've been through stacks and stacks of them for customer projects. > But the thing is it would cost the automotive industry billions of > dollars in profits. Now thats very messed up, but I don't blame them. > They want money! You should try to be a bit more skeptical. GM is LOSING money. don't you think they'd spring something like this on the market if they could? > What role does a carburetor have anyways? honestly, is there anyway a > carburetor could allow us to burn our gas slowly, Carburetors don't burn gas, engines do. Carburetors only mix gas with air and send it on its way down a long pipe. You need a certain minimum mixture of gas and air to have proper combustion, or any kind of combustion at all for that matter. Carburetors are very inefficient compared to fuel injection, and for fundamental reasons it is impossible for them to meet current and future emissions and fuel economy regulations. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car > run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Very interesting stuff I canna change the laws of physics, Cap'n! It isn't the carburetor or engine that allows higher fuel economy, but the design of the vehicle. A bicycle could probably get several hundred mpg, but a car as we know it has too much drag. The by-the-ways show up in discussions of hybrid cars all the time. We have a 2002 Toyota Prius, and it does indeed get as much as 50 mpg or slightly more in town. But an amazing number of factors can eat into that. Short trips can knock the average economy below 40 mpg (there is a display for trip mpg, 5 minute interval mpg, and "immediate" mpg). The A/C or defroster has about the same effect. Last winter I rolled the windows down and turned the heater on high to see what effect it had, and the next five minute bar dropped from about 40 mpg to 25 mpg! The car gets 65 mpg at 60 mph (no A/C on) and 45 mpg at 75 mph. When the edge is that fine it takes very little to dull it. Mike Fuel economy has improved from maybe 12 mpg to 25-35 mpg over the past 75 or so years. Don't you think it's ridiculous for the next jump in efficiency to be to 1000 mpg? Assuming that a car *can* get 1000 mpg, what do you think that will do to its performance? Zero to 60 in five minutes. I can understand why the oil industry would want to thwart fuel-efficient cars, but why the auto industry? Does not make sense. Carburetors are not efficient, period. Fuel-injector cars do not have them at all. The best improvement that was ever made to a carburetor to increase its fuel efficiency was to eliminate it. > I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car > run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Very interesting stuff A bunch of urban legend BS. Your time would be better spent studying the laws of thermodynamics instead of reading unsubstantianed crap. John > I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car > run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Very interesting stuff Even more interesting: www.snopes.com Pagan >> I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car >> run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Pagan Specifically http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp It's also worth noting that US patents expire after 17 years (non-renewable, unlike copyrights), and patents are not binding outside the countries in which they are registered. Any such carburetor would be in the public domain by now, and we would have seen them being made various places overseas - even if they could not be imported while the patent was in effect. Mike |
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