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Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 2005GM tops reliability and regains market share
The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. While Buick and Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all other makes, the recent incentives have pushed sales up 41 %. GM has increased its market share from 23% last year to 31% this year. This is expected to increase, as GM drops the incentive programs in favor of lower prices on most models. GM sales in Europe have risen 28% over 2004, while it is closing in on Volkswagen, which is the number one seller in China. Among the losers is Toyota, which is taken the brunt of the General Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability and great product! > The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. And this is important to the Honda new group because ...? Stewart DIBBS Well Hondas are priced high due to their perceived quality so if gm has closed the gap Honda has new competition!! Important to the group because if you're looking for a car, might want to look at gm >>The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. > > And this is important to the Honda new group because ...? > > Stewart DIBBS > Well Hondas are priced high due to their perceived quality so if gm has > closed the gap Honda has new competition!! Important to the group because > if you're looking for a car, might want to look at gm Owning a GM is okay if you have a good deal with the local tow truck operation. I speak from experience {;^( But I'm much better now, I've been a happy and satisfied Honda owner since 1979. Brian If your looking for a headache look at a GM product! Tom > Well Hondas are priced high due to their perceived quality so if gm has > closed the gap Honda has new competition!! Important to the group because [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Stewart DIBBS > .... While Buick and Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all > other makes, I'm sure you meant to say "reliability", but could you please reveal the source of this conclusion. What study or what survey says so? Bob the > recent incentives have pushed sales up 41 %. GM has increased its > market share from 23% last year to 31% this year. This is expected to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability > and great product! > > .... While Buick and Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all > > other makes, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Bob Sure, the source of this information is the 2005 JD Powers Survey and yes, I meant 'reliability'. Thanks! > the > > recent incentives have pushed sales up 41 %. GM has increased its [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability > > and great product! > Sure, the source of this information is the 2005 JD Powers Survey Most JD Power Surveys cover the first 6 months of ownership only. Can you tell us more details of this one or supply a link. Bob >> > .... While Buick and Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over >> > all [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability >> > and great product! >> .... While Buick and Cadillac models are now tops in relibility Hmmm, relibility. So GMs are now relible. Sounds like a subject for a Monty Python script ... "something about my car you find relible..." I've always though that the JD Powers Initial Quality award is a bit specious. All new cars are pretty nice (or is that nice and pretty?) for the first 6 months. A far better measure is how the car has lasted after 2 years or so. Stewart DIBBS Well you won't get reliability in a GM piece of sh.t, what have you been smoking? Honda and Toyota haven't has to resort to employe pricing, because there sales are not in the toilet like the big 3. Tom > The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. While Buick and > Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all other makes, the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability > and great product! what studys show that JUST the reliablity is making GM increase in sales? Have you looked on the side of the road lately? Theres GM's reliability! > The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. While Buick and > Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all other makes, the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability > and great product! > what studys show that JUST the reliablity is making GM increase in sales? > Have you looked on the side of the road lately? Theres GM's reliability! That shows that they have added the reliability that their products will break down more. {;^) Brian > The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. While Buick and > Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all other makes, the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability > and great product! Interesting. We own a 2003 Honda Accord and a 2002 Olds Silhoette. Both have spent more time in the shop than I would expect to see. The Honda just got a new transmission under warranty while the Olds is presently having the A/C condensor replaced at a cost of $900. The Honda has gone through brake pads much faster than one would expect and needed new rotors sooner than any other car I have ever owned. My personal experience is that GM has been improving quality in recent years while Honda has been cutting corners. The gap is not what it used to be. Johnj I could not care less about what happens at GM. Honda products are not perfect just way better then anything GM builds here. Honda has never needed to resort to pricing discounts to sell their cars and have a reputation for quality second to nobody and high resale too boot. Now even in GM's Saturn Vue you will find a HONDA 3.5 v-6 engine , appears like they know whats good also. Scott > I could not care less about what happens at GM. Honda products are not > perfect just way better then anything GM builds here. Honda has never > needed to resort to pricing discounts to sell their cars and have a > reputation for quality second to nobody and high resale too boot. Now even > in GM's Saturn Vue you will find a HONDA 3.5 v-6 engine , appears like they > know whats good also. Scott --------------------------- I wouldn't buy a Saturn Vue if it came with THREE Honda engines in it . . . You can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. Resale value may be a bit better on that version, but time will tell :-( 'Curly' I wasnt trying to say the rest of the car was any good. Just making a statement . I woundnt have one either. Honda for me. Scott > Honda has never > needed to resort to pricing discounts to sell their cars You must be forgetting the first generation Odyssey and that hack job built by Isuzu and sold by Honda. Isuzu called their version to Rodeo. I can not remember the Honda name. Honda also has rebates on several models right now, including the Accord. They just don't call 'em rebates. They call it "marketing support" to the dealerships and the number is hidden from customers. see: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/honda/accord/100452181/incentives.html?vdp=off&s etzip=95037&state=CA&tid=edmunds.n.incentivesmip.incentives.3.6.Honda* In a way this is more devious than a straight up rebate as if you don't know about it you may not get as good of a deal as a more informed person does. Yes, GM currently is discounting it's vehicles more than Honda is, but that is not the same thing as it is to say that Honda "never needed to resort to pricing discounts". Your statement simply isn't true. John >>that hack job built by Isuzu and sold by Honda. Isuzu called their version to Rodeo. I can not remember the Honda name.<< That would be the Passport. I had one, and in over 105,000 miles it was completely trouble-free. When I no longer needed an SUV for work, I got rid of it, because it got only 16 mpg (mostly highway driving) on a good day. > The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. While Buick and > Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all other makes, the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Motors offensive. It is hard to beat great prices, great reliability > and great product! GM resorted to the big discounts to move their huge SUVs. They have a few models that have fared fairly well in Consumer Reports reliability ratings -- like Buick LeSabre and the like, but Cadillac is still in the toilet. I would never trade my Prelude for anything GM makes -- and that includes a Corvette. And, I have owned a couple Corvettes before. Best thing about my Honda and others I see, the paint isn't falling off, like I've seen on alot of GM and Chrysler products, if either manufacture had any balls they would re-paint those vehicles at no cost to the owner. Tom >> The many changes made by GM appear to be paying off. While Buick and >> Cadillac models are now tops in relibility over all other makes, the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > toilet. I would never trade my Prelude for anything GM makes -- and that > includes a Corvette. And, I have owned a couple Corvettes before. With recent transmission problems Honda has some catching up to do. Besides, they are now also starting to fall behind on technology. Rear drum brakes on the 2005 Accord? And the interior is in bad need of updating. Tsk, tsk. > With recent transmission problems Honda has some catching up to do. > Besides, they are now also starting to fall behind on technology. Rear > drum brakes on the 2005 Accord? And the interior is in bad need of > updating. Tsk, tsk. I'd prefer to have drums rather than disks on the rear of my Accord. The primary reason is that they last so much longer and don't have to be serviced/checked every six months. Brian Rear drums are only on the DX or LX, EX gets discs. You most not know Honda's too well. I'm most everybody on here has owned GM cars in the past. Thats why we have Honda's now. I have worked in a Chevy garage for 33 years. I see GM at its best and worst. Honda is having a bit af trouble with tranmissions at present. Right now in our shop in Phoenix we have 6 Malibu's and Impala's all waiting for new engines. 3.5 V-6 and we have already done 4 others, and we are just one dealer. Imagine how mant other engines are failing nationwide. Crankshaft key breaks and pistons hit valves. All have less than 3000 miles , owners not happy. Any body can make errors when building cars. But GM is the master at it. Dont forget what G.M.C. stands for, Garage Mechanics Companion. hehehe In article <11df0577788830832062ce2098fda164@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>, "zonie" <sjemoomaw@nospam> wrote: > Rear drums are only on the DX or LX, EX gets discs. You most not know > Honda's too well. I'm most everybody on here has owned GM cars in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > what G.M.C. stands for, > Garage Mechanics Companion. hehehe Hello, Great post. I had lots of trouble out of Chevy Monza. That was my last one. I only have two questions for those people that love or own a GM vehicle. If GM truly believes their vehicles are great, why do they place Honda engines in at least one of the Saturn models? Don't they have any confidence in the engines made by GM? Jason  SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > Great post. I had lots of trouble out of Chevy Monza. That was my last > one. A....._Monza_? What model year was that, "Jason"? > Rear drums are only on the DX or LX, EX gets discs. LX V6 also has disks in back > With recent transmission problems Honda has some catching up to do. > Besides, they are now also starting to fall behind on technology. > Rear drum brakes on the 2005 Accord? And the interior is in bad need > of updating. Tsk, tsk. Funny, my 2004 has disc in the back.... The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said, both the new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about 150,000 miles. Sure, many go much longer and still have some residual worth at 150,000 miles. At 150,000 miles, they become "might last longer" vehicles...but not a great bet. But for GM/FORD the market prices them to go only to 100,000 miles before it's worth merely a residual "might last longer" value. That's why a loaded CR-V can command $23,000 while you can find a similar Ford Escape that they can only get $18,000 for (after all the rebate shenanigans). The market is recognizing that the Escape approaches crap at 100,000 miles while the CR-V probably won't approach crap until 150,000 miles. The HON/TOY is actually cheaper to own. Here the 'Scape costs 18 cents/mile while the CR-V costs 15 cents/mile. And while most people don't own a car from showroom to junkyard, this same pricing pattern will show up at resale time so, again, even for the 2-3 year owner, the HON/TOY is cheaper than the GM/FORD to own. (I will say that with the depth of the GM/FORD rebates today, their cost per mile is approaching that of HON/TOY. But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this 50,000 durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process). > Best thing about my Honda and others I see, the paint isn't falling off, > like I've seen on alot of GM and Chrysler products, if either manufacture [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> toilet. I would never trade my Prelude for anything GM makes -- and that >> includes a Corvette. And, I have owned a couple Corvettes before. > The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said, both the > new and the used car market prices HON/TOY products to last about 150,000 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > But, of course, cutting prices enough to compensate people for this 50,000 > durability gap is killing both GM and FORD in the process). I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three. It costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of sh.t here in the States. It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on huge temporary profits from gas hogs. >> The market sets car prices, not the manufacturers. That being said, both > the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three. It > costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of sh.t here in the States. I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their Japanese made counterparts. Japanese engineering and preparation seem to be superior to the American counterparts. I also take the stance in support of buying "American made" that I would rather support the American workers who build Pilots, Accords, Civics, etc, than the corporate pockets of GM/Ford, etc, as the American factory workers need the money more than the suits in Detroit. That said, if I buy a Honda or Toyota built here, I am still supporting the American economy and feeding the mouths of families who rely on that paycheck. > It's unions, management, better product from Japan and the reliance on > huge temporary profits from gas hogs. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> I don't know, I think it's the unions that are killing the big three. It >> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of sh.t here in the States. Good point. I guess I should have just said that "Honda and Toyota make better products" and left it at that. >I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and >Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>> It >>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of sh.t here in the States. > Good point. I guess I should have just said that "Honda and Toyota make > better products" and left it at that. Even with the alleged decline in quality of Toyota and Honda vehicles, I would still trust them over product offerings from GM, Ford and Daimler-Chrysler. Also, I find most vehicles from Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura and Nissan/Infiniti to be far more desirable than similar offerings from Detroit's Big 3. I realize that this is just a matter of personal preference, but that's the way I feel about it. And I make no apologies to the fans of domestic vehicles. They can drive what they want and I will do the same. I know full well what types of vehicles I trust and enjoy driving, and it just so happens that they are all engineered and manufactured by the Asian Big 3--either overseas or here in the U.S.A. I'm the one that has to pay for the vehicle and its maintenance, so I could care lesser than less what anyone thinks about what I choose to drive. Ron M. Don't kid yourself , Japanese companies may be employing American workers . That's all well and good , but , their profits go straight to Tokyo. -Dana >I have to disagree with "better product from Japan"....many Honda's and >Toyotas are made in the USA or Canada and hold up just as well as their [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>> It >>> costs GM and Ford too much to make a piece of sh.t here in the States. |
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