>> what value do you get from navigation? personally, i already know
>> where i live, where my work is, where the local stores are, etc. why
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> it makes no sense. In this case I'd recommend
> mapquest since it's free.
that's my point - the vast majority of people don't go that far afield.
personally, i live only 15 miles from work, don't use the car for
work, yet i do about 25k per year. and i manage without nav. don't
think that makes me extroardinary. if i have long distance travel to
do, i fly & rent. can't say i've ever had a problem getting free maps
from the rental company.
> I may just be different but I go to lots of
> places other than work/local-stores all the time.
> The nav is great for getting me there.
better than a free map?
> But would I pay $1k for this. Hum... No, when I
> ordered a Mini last year I didn't because all it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> businesses in the US. This and the ability to
> search these adds tremendously to the value.
how? who would drive at random and have no idea of destination? if you
have destination, route is merely a planning exercise which has a
trivial extension to incorporate all that you list.
> Here's why:
>
> Ever been on a trip (or out of your normal area)
> and needed to know where the nearest gas station
> is?
no. they're all over the side of the road.
> Or needed cash and want to find the nearest ATM?
they're in gas stations, malls, stores, etc.
> Or the nearest restaurant? (The nav lets you
> specify fast-food / Mexican / Italian / Thai /
> American / etc. I found a great Cajun fish
> restaurant this way.)
no. they're all over the side of the road.
> Ever had (or a passenger ever had) a headache /
> toothache / etc and wondered where the nearest
> drugstore / grocery store was?
over the counter painkillers are at gas stations.
> Or had a flat-tire / out-of-gas and need the
> phone number of the nearest gas station so you
> can call them to send someone out?
no. i have aaa for that.
> Or nearest Honda dealer? Or the nearest Target or
> other kind of shopping? Or the nearest hotel? Ever
> wanted to find the nearest post office / police
> station? Or hardware store / stereo store?
no. you've posted this message, so presumably you have access to the
net. if that fails, i [gasp] /ask/!!!
> For me these features make the Honda nav unit
> worth the money.
that's impressive. but i'm coming from the other end of the spectrum to
you when i say that.
> The newer nav units have real time routing
> around traffic jams. And have restaurant reviews.
so, i'm stuck on the bay bridge. i'm not going anywhere as there's no
alternative routing. now what? send out for pizza?
> On a more minor note: I've lived in San Francisco
> for 23 years and I and friends have been surprised
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> I will never consider another car without a *good*
> nav unit.
i would never consider a car /with/ a nav unit. seems /utterly/
ridiculous to me. just like people that buy cars based on the quality
of the stereo. but hey, i'm told that some people worry about the color
of their toilet paper too.
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 14 Aug 2005 14:57 GMT
> >> what value do you get from navigation? personally, i already know
> >> where i live, where my work is, where the local stores are, etc. why
[quoted text clipped - 114 lines]
> of the stereo. but hey, i'm told that some people worry about the color
> of their toilet paper too.
I'm amazed that people were able to exist even 10 years ago, given what
they consider an absolute necessity of life today.
Brian Stell - 14 Aug 2005 19:32 GMT
> I'm amazed that people were able to exist
> even 10 years ago, given what they consider
> an absolute necessity of life today.
It's not "an absolute necessity". It is a very
useful tool to have in the car.
New things come out and people use them.
20 years ago people didn't even know the web
existed.
A hundred years ago people used horses instead
of cars.
I don't think anyone is proposing we go back to
those ways of life.
Or that we cannot live without these new things.
The issue is not "if we can or cannot live without
these". The issue is "does one see an advantage to
using them".
And each one of us get to make our own choice.
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 14 Aug 2005 21:30 GMT
> > I'm amazed that people were able to exist
> > even 10 years ago, given what they consider
> > an absolute necessity of life today.
>
> It's not "an absolute necessity". It is a very
> useful tool to have in the car.
When someone says, "I could never imagine having a car without it," that
person's imagination is extremely limited--because for years, he did
have one without it.
What he's doing is refusing to admit that he could live without it.
He's being a spoiled, selfish brat.
One wonders what will happen when the asteroid finally hits...
Steve Bigelow - 14 Aug 2005 21:44 GMT
>> > I'm amazed that people were able to exist
>> > even 10 years ago, given what they consider
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> What he's doing is refusing to admit that he could live without it.
> He's being a spoiled, selfish brat.
He's not taking anything away from anyone else.
How is he selfish?
He can afford to buy it himself.
How is he being spoiled?
Brian Stell - 15 Aug 2005 05:05 GMT
> When someone says, "I could never imagine having a car without it," that
> person's imagination is extremely limited--because for years, he did
> have one without it.
Who's quote is this? Not mine.
I said: "I will never consider another car without a *good*
nav unit."
Or a car without an electric starter. People did without
these for years.
New features come out. Why select a car without the
feature one wants?
> What he's doing is refusing to admit that he could live without it.
You are confused about the quote.
> He's being a spoiled, selfish brat.
Could you elaborate on why wanting modern features
makes one spoiled or a selfish brat?
xmirage2kx - 15 Aug 2005 16:35 GMT
"" wrote:
> > I'm amazed that people were able to exist
> > even 10 years ago, given what they consider
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> And each one of us get to make our own choice.
If you pull out a map more than 2-3x a week..... then get a Nav unit,
2-3x a day... better get a good one. its just like anything else.
would I get a $150 a month 5000min cell plan if I only wanted it to
call AAA if I break down....no... while if I am working Realestate and
I am on my cell phone for 3hrs a day I would wanna get that plan.
Everything is useful if you use it, nothing is useful if you dont.
Brian Stell - 14 Aug 2005 19:25 GMT
>> The nav is great for getting me there.
>
> better than a free map?
Yes, way better. The nav is there in the car all
the time. Mapquest requires internet access. In
the past I've always had a full set of local maps
and had no problem using them. But the nav is
much more convenient and it pays attention to the
routing so I can focus on the driving.
>> The Honda nav has a lot more than just navigation.
>> It has address/type/phone info on a million
>> businesses in the US. This and the ability to
>> search these adds tremendously to the value.
>
> how? who would drive at random and have no idea of destination?
No one proposed driving at random.
> if you have destination, route is merely a planning
> exercise which has a trivial extension to incorporate
> all that you list.
So if you are out and want to go to a store but don't
have the address how do you plan the trip? Sure, stop
call information, call the store, write down the
address and then pull out the maps.
>> Ever been on a trip (or out of your normal area)
>> and needed to know where the nearest gas station
>> is?
>
> no. they're all over the side of the road.
There are lots of place where they're not "all over".
Having had the nav for a while it's really amazing
how many are near by but not visible.
An I acknowledge that it's certianly possible to
wander around long enough and find one.
>> Or had a flat-tire / out-of-gas and need the
>> phone number of the nearest gas station so you
>> can call them to send someone out?
>
> no. i have aaa for that.
Good for you.
>> Or nearest Honda dealer? Or the nearest Target or
>> other kind of shopping? Or the nearest hotel? Ever
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> no. you've posted this message, so presumably you
> have access to the net.
The advantage is when I'm in the car. If I'm at
home or work I have phone books and the web.
I don't know many people that carry phone books
or have internet access in their car.
> if that fails, i [gasp] /ask/!!!
Sure you can ask strangers on the street for
directions. People have done that for years.
However, it is my preference not to have depend
on the knowledge and kindness of strangers. And
there are lots of times when there is no one
around to ask.
>> For me these features make the Honda nav unit
>> worth the money.
>
> that's impressive. but i'm coming from the other
> end of the spectrum to you when i say that.
What do you me by "i'm coming from the other end of the
spectrum"?
>> The newer nav units have real time routing
>> around traffic jams. And have restaurant reviews.
>
> so, i'm stuck on the bay bridge. i'm not going
> anywhere as there's no alternative routing. now what?
Uh, the point is to avoid the problem in the first
place. Sure once you are there you are stuck on the
bridge you are stuck. But depending on where you
are heading taking the San Mateo bridge might be a
lot faster. And of course one can listen to the
radio to try and figure this out.
>> I will never consider another car without a *good*
>> nav unit.
>
> i would never consider a car /with/ a nav unit. seems
> /utterly/ ridiculous to me. [silly comments snipped]
Isn't it great that we both can choose?