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Car Forum / Honda Cars / September 20051994 Honda Civic won't start
Hi, My 94 Honda Civic EX automatic will not start. It has plenty of battery juice, and turns over, just no ignition. Any recommendations? I'd like to try to fix this without going into a shop. Related info: It's very humid, rainy. This happened a once couple months ago, and seemed to resolv itself w/o repair. Thanks. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > This happened a once couple months ago, and seemed to resolv itself w/o > repair. Are you getting spark? Usually ignition problems that show up when it is humid or raining are related to your cap, rotor and wires. If it has been a while since they've been replaced, replace them. Use original Honda components - they are a little more expensive, but do tend to be better and last longer than aftermarket. You if you are not getting any kind of spark, it could also be your ignitor. This is an electronic component inside your distributor and commonly fails on Hondas. Here's some really good info on it: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/startproblems.html#badigniter Hope you'll fix it soon. Remco > hutchtoo wrote: > > Hi, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Usually ignition problems that show up when it is humid or raining are > related to your cap, rotor and wires. I agree about the moisture, particularly affecting the distributor cap. I'd start with replacing the cap (the part costs about $20). Still no start, then change the plugs ($10-$20). Then the wires ($50-$75). Then the rotor ($15?). If you have a voltmeter, you should be able to check the resistance of the wires. Alternatively, post the age (in years and miles of each of the above), and people can comment further. > If it has been a while since they've been replaced, replace them. Use > original Honda components - they are a little more expensive, but do [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ignitor. This is an electronic component inside your distributor and > commonly fails on Hondas. Agreed. A new ignitor will run about $100. Buy OEM everything. <snip> > If you have a voltmeter, you should be able to check the resistance of the > wires. <snip> How conclusive is this test? I've heard varying opinions. Greg. > > If you have a voltmeter, you should be able to check the resistance of the > > wires. > How conclusive is this test? I've heard varying opinions. If you mean that a wire whose resistance is in spec is not necessarily fine, then I agree. But if the resistance is way high, the spark at the plug will be inadequate, and this may be the cause of the no start. (Note: I am going on the assumption people have all-in-one electric meter gadgets that include both a voltmeter and ohmmeter, among other testing features. I just called these gadgets "voltmeters" for short.) Ways to check plug wires are discussed a lot on the web. Google for {plugs wires resistance check}, and see for example: http://www.inct.net/~autotips/plugwire.htm http://www.ehow.com/how_16427_replace-spark-plug.html (see the tips on wire testing at the bottom) http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/maintain/answer.php?ignition_system2.html > My 94 Honda Civic EX automatic will not start. It has plenty of battery > juice, and turns over, just no ignition. Any recommendations? I'd like to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This happened a once couple months ago, and seemed to resolv itself w/o > repair. Looks like you are located in Waltham, Massachusetts. If it rainy and freezing I'd make sure the distributor seal is in perfect condition to keep the moisture out. Use dielectric grease to seal the ends of the plug wires. In this image distributor seal is part #10 http://www.slhondaparts.com/images/PCI/13SR40/017/6.jpg > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. ===================================== Hutchtoo, Don't go off pursuing any untamed ornithoids. (wild goose chase). Electronic components don't fail overnight. Spark plugs don't get fouled overnight. We had the same problem on our Odyssey. One morning it just wouldn't start. Spun good, but no start. If I had realized that one of my injectors had simply dripped a load of fuel into the engine overnight, I would have opened the Owner's Manual and found the part about how to start a 'flooded engine'. Hold the pedal to the floor crank the starter for up to fifteen seconds. When it starts to run, back off the pedal. It may blow a bit of smoke. Run a tank of Gasohol or a bottle of injector cleaner thru it. 'Curly' Thanks all, this is great info. I'll definitely try the 15-second test before replacing the distributor parts. I got this car in Nov 1994 and suspect most of these parts are nearly that old -- other than the plugs. Any recommendations on sources for original Honda parts? I prefer go to local shops like Lappens and NAPA, which mostly sell 3d party parts like Beck Arnley distributor parts. Thanks again. > Thanks all, this is great info. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks again. If you end up replacing ignition components, replace them with OEM Honda: using aftermarket is just asking for trouble. Are you in a hurry? If not, I recommend www.slhonda.com (in California). Great drawings to find your parts. All OEM. Good service, based on my one order from them so far. Your parts should arrive within ten days or even a week. It's been reported here that some dealers (parts dept.) will give you www.slhonda.com's prices if you come to them with a printout of prices from slhonda. Also, Curly's point is a good one, by the way, AFAIC. On the other hand, the distributor, wire, and plug parts mentioned earlier all have to be changed out every few years anyway, so it's not like you're throwing money away. (Some folks are saying OEM Honda wires last a really long time, though... ) > Any recommendations on sources for original Honda parts? I prefer go to > local shops like Lappens and NAPA, which mostly sell 3d party parts > like Beck Arnley distributor parts. > Thanks all, this is great info. > I'll definitely try the 15-second test before replacing the distributor [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > like Beck Arnley distributor parts. > Thanks again. The genuine distributor cap seal is about a dollar and last much longer. Napa probably sell an aftermarket one for $3. Only replace it when the seal feels stiff, cracking or flattened. Dielectric grease is about $3 to $5 at Napa. A rag to wipe out the moisture is free. Wipe everything from coil to the spark plugs. WD-40 will also absorb the moisture. Remove the spark plug wire from the socket and apply a small amount of dielectric tune up grease to the insulator, apply some to the distributor cap where there are gaps. Use your finger to spread the dielectric grease around the ceramic portion of the spark plug to help maintain a dry environment for the plugs. If you need help go here. http://www.techguys.ca/howto/spark_plugs.html For the paranoid, spray a silicone film on the plug wires and cap to further insulate from moisture. > Hutchtoo, > Don't go off pursuing any untamed ornithoids. (wild goose chase). > Electronic components don't fail overnight. Spark plugs don't get fouled > overnight. We had the same problem on our Odyssey. One morning it just > wouldn't start. Spun good, but no start. The OP's problem is due to moisture from his climate change. Leaky injectors would leak wet or dry, no? The OP should check for sparks and observe the smoke from the tailpipe to fill us in to real nature of the problem. >> Hutchtoo, >> Don't go off pursuing any untamed ornithoids. (wild goose chase). >> Electronic components don't fail overnight. Spark plugs don't get >> fouled overnight. We had the same problem on our Odyssey. One morning >> it just wouldn't start. Spun good, but no start. Here he gives a slightly better description;"spun good",but no start. He didn't mention any misfiring like one would get if there were leaking spark impulses. "spun good" but not starting is a typical failed MR indicator. > The OP's problem is due to moisture from his climate change. Says who? the OP didn't give any indication of leaking HV like misfiring or stumbling,only "no start" which doesn't describe anything. > Leaky > injectors would leak wet or dry, no? > > The OP should check for sparks and observe the smoke from the > tailpipe to fill us in to real nature of the problem. Smoke would indicate that some cylinders were igniting,at least part of the time,and there would be misfiring and stumbling in trying to start it.  SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > "B Squareman" <Squareman@none.com> wrote in > > The OP's problem is due to moisture from his climate change. > Says who? the OP didn't give any indication of leaking HV like misfiring or > stumbling,only "no start" which doesn't describe anything. The OP hinted that "It's very humid, rainy." The OP crank but won't start in this condition. A leaking HV from the coil straight to ground via moisture (and never making it to the plug wires) will crank but not sputter. And yes, if it's leaking from a spark plug wire or two, it will stumble/misfire. We shouldn't be too adamant about one scenario. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. It could also be a bad main relay. http://www.marklamond.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm tegger.com is also a great Honda/Acura info database. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > It could also be a bad main relay. Good to know. Though both times this happened with a cold start (albeit in warm humid weather). Distributor assy seems to be the top suspect based on most of the feedback.... >> It could also be a bad main relay. > > Good to know. Though both times this happened with a cold start (albeit > in warm humid weather). Distributor assy seems to be the top suspect > based on most of the feedback.... Actually, distributor cap and wires are both equally likely suspects. Moisture/insulation breakdown/cracks will all leak voltage to ground on wet days. This is the sort of thing regular maintenance prevents 100%. And use OEM. Forget the aftermarket sh.t. It's false economy. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> It could also be a bad main relay. > > Good to know. Though both times this happened with a cold start (albeit > in warm humid weather). A symptom of a bad MR.(not humidity,though) even just whacking the MR can temporarily 'fix' it and get your car started.Lose fuel pressure and your car will not start,and you can crank until the battery is dead. > Distributor assy seems to be the top suspect > based on most of the feedback.... Yes,but it's very easy to resolder the main relay and *eliminate* it as a source of trouble.Much easier than messing with the distributor. I note the others have you swapping parts right off the start. Parts cost money. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> Distributor assy seems to be the top suspect >> based on most of the feedback.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I note the others have you swapping parts right off the start. > Parts cost money. You mean me? You're right. I forgot the most obvious method of temporarily fixing a moisture problem: Wipe off the rotor and the inside of the distributor cap, wipe off all the plug wires. Spray wires with WD-40 (don't wipe WD-40 off). Reinstall. If it still won't start, then it's something else. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I note the others have you swapping parts right off the start. >> Parts cost money. > > You mean me? Not just you,and no offense meant to any of you. The Honda main relay is such a common,frequent problem,and she DID say WARM along with humid,and beginning with a cold start;sounded just like the MR problem. It's a problem easily eliminated without new parts,IF one has the tools and skillset. I think you folks saw the words 'humid' and 'ignition'(which I took to meaning "not firing up",or starting),and put together -ignition problems- (no spark),which IMO,are a bit less common than the relay problem. I also think that if it were ignition problems,the 'starting' would be a bit rough,like misfiring,where she said it just cranked and didn't start. I still could be wrong,and you folks could be right,though. I just read it a little differently. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > >> I note the others have you swapping parts right off the start. > >> Parts cost money. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > at > kua.net When I saw the words humid and ignition, I asked if he had spark or even a weak one. Usually my answers go like "does it do this?", "If so, check this..". Since he then asked about OEM vs aftermarket parts, it was my (and probably everyone's) conclusion that he lost spark. Humidity is actually a fairly common cause of a no-start. He could have easily have a cracked cap. Replacing this components periodically, especially if they've never been replaced, is just good maintenance. To just swap parts is expensive but I don't think that was suggested. Remco >> >> I note the others have you swapping parts right off the start. >> >> Parts cost money. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Humidity is actually a fairly common cause of a no-start. Not a total,crank-to-death no-cylinder-firing no-start,but a stumbling,erratic misfiring no-start.I didn't get that from his post. > He could > have easily have a cracked cap. Replacing this components [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Remco SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > Yes,but it's very easy to resolder the main relay and *eliminate* it as a > source of trouble.Much easier than messing with the distributor. Easy to solder, but not easy to remove it from inside the dash. >> Yes,but it's very easy to resolder the main relay and *eliminate* it >> as a source of trouble.Much easier than messing with the distributor. > > Easy to solder, but not easy to remove it from inside the dash. It is if you remove the knee bolster. http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > It is if you remove the knee bolster. > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html Even with the bolster out, in the 94 civic there are other parts that prevent me from using my normal wrench. The main relay (I assume this is it, looks like the pictures on the page above) is to the left of the fusebox, wedged up against the left above the hood latch in a tight spot. > > It is if you remove the knee bolster. > > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > looks like the pictures on the page above) is to the left of the fusebox, > wedged up against the left above the hood latch in a tight spot. There is a trick to it; Don't try to unbolt the relay. Rather, pull the guts out of it while the housing is still in place. Then you can resolder and re-install, or you can put the guts from a new replacement relay into the old housing. Signature======================================================= A very modest collection of Honda tech info can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/ng_randolph >> > It is if you remove the knee bolster. >> > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > resolder and re-install, or you can put the guts from a new > replacement relay into the old housing. Can anyone send me a photo of a relay that's in that location? I'd like to add it to the relevant FAQ page to complement the pics that are there now. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Can anyone send me a photo of a relay that's in that location? I'd like to > add it to the relevant FAQ page to complement the pics that are there now. Tegger, I emailed you a photo from my 94 civic. Let me know if you need a re-send. >> Yes,but it's very easy to resolder the main relay and *eliminate* it as a >> source of trouble.Much easier than messing with the distributor. > > Easy to solder, but not easy to remove it from inside the dash. That's the problem. Not too hard to find but really tough to extract. I'm going to have to go spend at least $20+ on wrench extensions to get this thing out... > My 94 Honda Civic EX automatic will not start. It has plenty of battery > juice, and turns over, just no ignition. Any recommendations? I'd like to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This happened a once couple months ago, and seemed to resolv itself w/o > repair. (I don't know how technical you are - please pardon anything here that's blatantly obvious to you.) Have you checked for moisture in the distributor cap? That's the classic rainy-day ignition problem. (It's even been immortalized in song, by Ed's Redeeming Qualities: "And if your car won't start in the rain / New distributor cap".) Easy to check - label the plug wires (so you can be sure to put them back correctly!) and disconnect them from the distributor, remove the cap, and wipe the inside with a tissue or something similar to see if there's moisture inside. Cheap to fix, if it's just the cap - you can get a replacement cap and rotor for many cars from places like Carquest for under $20. (I don't know how much a '94 Civic's is, but it doesn't seem like something that'd be unusually expensive.) My '93 Civic EX (manual) had that problem, and also occasional stalling. Initially thought it was the alternator because when the car would start, alternator output often would be fine initially but then drop. Turned out that the ignition switch was bad, and some of the contacts were failing intermittently. Moisture seemed to aggravate the problem. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to diagnose this one myself - it was my shop that finally tracked it down, after I'd looked at the alternator and various other things - so I'm not sure what the best way to test for it would be. If removing the switch isn't difficult, I'd probably try checking it with an ohm meter for a reliable connection between the appropriate points at the various key positions. SignatureMichael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com Is it any wonder the world's gone insane, with information come to be the only real medium of exchange? -- Thomas Pynchon It could be the fuel pump. My '90 Accord did the same exact thing a couple years ago. Josh http://www.pingeek.com pinball stuff > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. The problem is fixed. After finding the ignition coil was bad, but after having subjected the rotor and assembly to lots of abuse removing the seized rotor screw, I decided to replace the entire distributor. Against some people's advice, I've purchased a $185 non-OEM distributor (plus new cap and rotor) at the AutoZone down the street. I made this cost/convenience decision based on my short time horizon for this car and low mileage. The new distrbutor fixed the problem. If it fails in the future I will send an update. Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. Congratulations! Did the non-OEM distributor include a new coil and new ignitor? Thanks for the update, and way to hang in there. :-) > The problem is fixed. After finding the ignition coil was bad, but after > having subjected the rotor and assembly to lots of abuse removing the seized [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback. > Congratulations! Did the non-OEM distributor include a new coil and new > ignitor? Yes, it included both a coil and ignitor, and has a lifetime guarantee. It did not include a rotor or cap. I should also put a good word in for AutoZone. Those guys were a big help getting the seized rotor screw out. > > Congratulations! Did the non-OEM distributor include a new coil and new > > ignitor? > > Yes, it included both a coil and ignitor, and has a lifetime guarantee. It > did not include a rotor or cap. Wow. For $180, even if it dies in say, six months, that's worth it. > I should also put a good word in for AutoZone. Those guys were a big help > getting the seized rotor screw out. I toast AZ. :-) |
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