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Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 2005Main relay solder connections - quick fix?
In an earlier thread (1994 Honda Civic won't start) people recommended that I check the main relay to rule out a failed solder connection (for example http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html). Would it suffice to simply touch up the existing connections with the tip of a soldering iron? Looking for an easier workaround than re/desoldering just to rule out this simple part... Thanks. > In an earlier thread (1994 Honda Civic won't start) people recommended > that I check the main relay to rule out a failed solder connection (for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks. ============================= You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem. In a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump run for 2 seconds. If it doesn't run, smack the dash and listen. If pump runs, it's your Main Relay. You car will now start, and the vibration will keep the relay working until you shut the engine off. Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet? 'Curly' > Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet? > > 'Curly' a broken timing belt will have a CLEARLY different sound;the motor will spin faster than the usual cranking speed. It's happened to me on a Civic CVCC.It's like a fast "whirr",rather then the normal cranking under compression.  SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem. In > a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump run for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Have you checked that that your timing belt isn't broken yet? When I turn the key to position 2, I hear a soft ~2-second whir which is probably the pump, followed by a non-start. By your logic, that means the main relay IS working OK, since I didn't need to slap the dashboard...? :) My timing belts are probably 15,000 miles old so they should be healthy. Thanks for the helpful ideas. >> You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem. >> In a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > means the main relay IS working OK, since I didn't need to slap the > dashboard...? :) Not necessarily. All it means is that the fuel pump is running for two seconds. Reach behind the dash so you can feel the Main Relay. Turn the ignition to ON (not START) There should be a click as the Check Engine light goes on, then anoher as it goes off. You will hear the pump run for two seconds. Turn the key to START. At that point you should feel a THIRD click. If you feel all those clicks, the Main Relay is OK. If any clicks are missing, the Main Relay has a cracked solder problem. If the Main Relay is OK, turn the key to ON, wait for the Check Engine light to go off, then turn the key to OFF again. Quickly repeat a half- dozen times or so. If it now starts, the fuel pump check valve is bad, allowing pressure to bleed off. If it still does not start, check for spark as you crank. Buy a cheap spark plug at the store (doesn't matter what kind), pull one of the plug wires, insert the new plug, hold the hex part against a ground, then watch the gap as somebody cranks. Any spark? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>You dont' even have to touch it to prove if it's causing the problem. >>>In a quiet place, turn the key to position II. Listen to fuel pump [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > insert the new plug, hold the hex part against a ground, then watch the gap > as somebody cranks. Any spark? the gap for a standard plug is too narrow to reliably spark at atmospheric pressure. that spare plug is a great tool to have in your toolbox, but open the ground electrode so it's at about 45 degrees to the axis of the plug. then they spark just fine in open air. > the gap for a standard plug is too narrow to reliably spark at > atmospheric pressure. that spare plug is a great tool to have in your > toolbox, but open the ground electrode so it's at about 45 degrees to > the axis of the plug. then they spark just fine in open air. Good tip. Actually, I've never used a plug. I just suggested that becuase some people got upset last time I suggested just holding the plug lead a half-inch from a ground. That method is perfectly safe for a few seconds of cranking. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Good news, I followed the steps below and felt every click. So the main relay is ruled out. Also tried the off-on x 6, the engine did not start. The last reco is a little out of my league, I think I'd need more docs about plugs and sparks before attempting that. > Not necessarily. All it means is that the fuel pump is running for two > seconds. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > gap > as somebody cranks. Any spark? > The last reco is a little out of my league, I think I'd need more docs about > plugs and sparks before attempting that. Remove a plug (or buy one) then reconnect the plug wire to it. Lay it on the valve cover (metal part of plug) so you see it from the driver seat and crank the engine over. You should hear a loud snapping or see sparks. Don't do this for more than 5 seconds. If you are getting fuel you'll just be dumping it into the on cylinder and not igniting it. Otherwise, have a frined insert a screwdriver in the wire and hold it near ground and crank away. Make sure he/she doesn't touch any metal on the car or the screwdriver. They also make spark checker. http://www.etoolcart.com/browseproducts/Spark-Checker-In-line-with--90-degree-Bo ot--TA23920.html This link is the same as above. http://snipurl.com/hc3g > Remove a plug (or buy one) then reconnect the plug wire to it. Lay it > on the valve cover (metal part of) so you see it from the driver > seat and crank the engine over. You should hear a loud snapping or > see sparks. Omit this part. I believe Tegger mention it already. >> Remove a plug (or buy one) then reconnect the plug wire to it. Lay it >> on the valve cover (metal part of) so you see it from the driver >> seat and crank the engine over. You should hear a loud snapping or >> see sparks. > > Omit this part. I believe Tegger mention it already. A can't remember, anyone tell him to trya and clear a flooded condtion first? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>Remove a plug (or buy one) then reconnect the plug wire to it. Lay it >>>on the valve cover (metal part of) so you see it from the driver [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > A can't remember, anyone tell him to trya and clear a flooded condtion > first? pull the injector connections - no flooding. Yes, this was recommended. I tried it, no luck. People keep bringing this up.... I'll try it again, but damn, my battery is starting to run low... :P > If you suspect that your fuel injected engine is flooded. Push the gas > pedal to the floor while starting. The ECU (electronic control unit) will > detect that the throttle is more than 2/3 of the way open and shut off > the fuel while starting for a period of time (I believe 15 seconds) to > clear the flooded condition. Then it will apply fuel to start the engine. > Good news, I followed the steps below and felt every click. So the > main relay is ruled out. Also tried the off-on x 6, the engine did not > start. > > The last reco is a little out of my league, I think I'd need more docs > about plugs and sparks before attempting that. Easy as pie. Really. Just go buy any kind of cheap automotive spark plug. Bend the electrode with a pair of pliers as jim beam says. Pull the easiest plug wire you can find from its plug, and insert the plug in the plug wire. Touch the plug to any ground (valve cover bolt, battery negative terminal, etc). Now have a friend crank the engine. If you're getting spark, it will be loud and yellow. If you're worried about getting electrocuted, don't. If you do happen to get a shock, it does absolutely *no* harm at all. It just startles you. Actually, you don't even need a spare plug. Just hold the empty plug wire close to a ground (any bare metal part on the engine) about 1/4" or 1/2" away. Then have your friend crank for a second or two. DO NOT allow the car to start with the plug wire removed! If it should happen to start, shut it down immediately to protect the ignition coil. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Actually, you don't even need a spare plug. Just hold the empty plug wire > close to a ground (any bare metal part on the engine) about 1/4" or 1/2" > away. Then have your friend crank for a second or two. Or you can have the friend put his finger in the boot and rest the side of his hand on the car body or engine. Stop cranking when you hear a shout, as he has probably released the wire or removed his hand from the car. If you don't hear a shout, you are not getting a spark or your friend is mute. It is best to use a very tolerant friend or one who has very poor memory. Mike >> Actually, you don't even need a spare plug. Just hold the empty plug >> wire close to a ground (any bare metal part on the engine) about 1/4" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > or your friend is mute. It is best to use a very tolerant friend or > one who has very poor memory. Remind me to invite you to my next party. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > In an earlier thread (1994 Honda Civic won't start) people recommended > that I check the main relay to rule out a failed solder connection (for > example http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html). > > Would it suffice to simply touch up the existing connections with the > tip of a soldering iron? no. the cracked joints tend to oxidize inside the crack face. remelting without removing this layer just leaves it in place and compromises both mechanical strength and conductivity. you need to de-solder to do this job properly. > Looking for an easier workaround than re/desoldering just to rule out > this simple part... the "simple" solution is replacing the relay - it's /guaranteed/ to work. but that's still more expensive than buying the soldering iron, solder and de-soldering wick. > Thanks.
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