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Car Forum / Honda Cars / December 2005Ignition cut-out
This evening (yes - Christmas eve) my daughter's '93 Accord LX (225K miles) suffered a short bout of engine failure. She described it as surging a couple times when she tried to accelerate, then the engine died when she braked. I quizzed her about the tach and she was clear it was jumping rather than swinging with the engine. It didn't start right away, but would sputter occasionally and eventually lit off as though flooded (which it probably was by then). The Main Relay and ignitor are each about a year old (but both are NAPA aftermarket, since the car insists on breaking down on Sundays and holidays). The timing belt is 4 years, 60K miles old. My son and I replaced the radiator about 2 weeks ago, so I am wondering if we stirred up evil spirits in the process of that. He bled the system carefully, but a leak in the lower radiator hose attachment may have let air in. I haven't done a visual inspection yet, but will in the morning. What comes to mind? Ignition switch? Some particular underhood wiring? Distributor? Something I'm forgetting? She is committed to driving to San Diego in a week or so and I'd sure like to sort this out by then. TIA Mike How old's the ignition coil? I'd try to do a check of it early on. Dying when braking--then being able to restart it after a cooldown period, at least until the coil fails completely--is a symptom. I know you have a lot of experience with Hondas. This is just where I'd start, based on the car's age and symptoms. > This evening (yes - Christmas eve) my daughter's '93 Accord LX (225K miles) > suffered a short bout of engine failure. She described it as surging a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Mike > How old's the ignition coil? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I know you have a lot of experience with Hondas. This is > just where I'd start, based on the car's age and symptoms. I'd forgotten about that! The coil is the original. I might be wise to shotgun it out, whether or not I find something else wrong. I should even have time to get an OEM part before she leaves. At least that is something I don't have to worry about disturbing unnecessarily - I hate doing invasive work so soon before a big trip. Thanks, Elle! Mike ============================================================================== TOPIC: Ignition cut-out http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.honda/browse_thread/thread/e8a5fd8cba927459 ============================================================================== > From: "alt.autos.honda group" <noreply@googlegroups.com> > Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 07:20:29 +0000 [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > forgetting? She is committed to driving to San Diego in > a week or so and I'd sure like to sort this out by then. > == 2 of 3 == > Date: Sun, Dec 25 2005 5:31 am [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > just where I'd start, based on the car's age and > symptoms. > == 1 of 1 == > Date: Sun, Dec 25 2005 11:14 am [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Since the tach and engine timing both get their signal > from the crank sensor, I'd also look in that area. > == 2 of 5 == > Date: Sun, Dec 25 2005 4:39 pm > From: "Remco" snip > Not sure about any previous post on this issue, but the > ignitor seems to just be a larger power transistor [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the ignitor is bad. If you somehow can detect this on > the tach, it must be some sort of weird artifact. I thought coils last forever. I never had to replace a coil, rotor, cup, or wire on any of my cars. I have an Accord that soon will be 22. But on this list it is very frequently recommended to replace, even on young cars, all kind of ignition parts. To me this sounds like "it won't do any harm, so lets replace it." I have a question about the original message: > ... suffered a short bout of engine > failure. She described it as surging a couple times > when she tried to accelerate, then the engine died > when she braked. I quizzed her about the tach and > she was clear it was jumping rather than swinging > with the engine. Surging - meaning the rpm increased (suddenly, audibly?) more than expected, right? With the cars I am familiar this would not happen when any of the ignition parts fail, to the contrary, they would slow down. In order for the engine to rev up, without any corresponding increase of the speed, there must be a disconnect between engine and road, for example slipping of the clutch or AT - which most likely happens when they cannot transmit the increased power during acceleration. . > I thought coils last forever. I never had to replace a > coil, rotor, cup, or wire on any of my cars. I have an > Accord that soon will be 22. But on this list it is > very frequently recommended to replace, even on young > cars, all kind of ignition parts. To me this sounds > like "it won't do any harm, so lets replace it." The only definite coil failures I've had have been a Nissan that gave one "pop" when starting, then nothing, and my son's Acura coil that objected to not having a place for the spark to go. Old time coils practically never failed; like the old Mopar slant 6s, they didn't have the power to blow themselves up. Modern coils run at much higher power and are no longer oil filled, so failures are not unusual. My experience with electrical parts of all sorts shows the pattern that power handling devices gradually cook themselves one way or another. 200K+ miles on a coil certainly puts it in the range of "untrustworthy," and when a contributor I respect says she has seen intermittent failures in them before they die I think that's reason to change it out on suspicion... while still investigating other possibilities. > I have a question about the original message: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > familiar this would not happen when any of the ignition > parts fail, to the contrary, they would slow down. I don't think I described it well. The surging was intermittent loss of power, and of course she instinctively pressed on the gas to compensate. We all know it rarely helps, but we all do it :-) A follow-up... the symptoms haven't returned yet. This model has a solid ground to the chassis near the battery, and the battery negative cable also takes the ground to the engine, so my concern that we left the ground loose was unfounded. The ignition switch seems solid, but I'd like to check it when it is cold, too. Mike > Old time coils practically never > failed; like the old Mopar slant 6s, they didn't have the power to blow [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > seen intermittent failures in them before they die I think that's reason to > change it out on suspicion... while still investigating other possibilities. Toss in that Tegger put this item's troubleshooting and replacement, with quite a lot of detail, into his FAQ. Meaning the coil's failure is reported quite a bit here. My 91 Civic's first coil lasted ten years, 120k miles. My one non-OEM coil lasted less than two years, about 35k miles. Firestone charged me an arm and a leg for that non-OEM coil, too. 'Course, let me be the first to point out that non-OEM ignition wires may have played a role. Tegger's 1991 Integra, at over 240k miles IIRC, is still on its original coil. He appears to take fastidious care of his ignition electrical parts (rotor, cap, wires, plugs all replaced at five years by him, all OEM IIRC). A lesson for us all, IMO. I read the other day an article by Auto tech writer Larry Carley. He also reported that not taking good care of ignition wires will shorten coil lives. This might not solve your daughter's car's problem. Again, it's just where I would start. Though I would have taken resistance measurements, per the manual's specs, on the old coil before replacing it, too. Not that you have time over a possible holiday to deal with this. > This evening (yes - Christmas eve) my daughter's '93 Accord LX (225K miles) > suffered a short bout of engine failure. She described it as surging a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Distributor? Something I'm forgetting? She is committed to driving to San > Diego in a week or so and I'd sure like to sort this out by then. I wonder if the problem is electrical in nature, because the RPMs were jumping around wildly. Since the tach and engine timing both get their signal from the crank sensor, I'd also look in that area. Remco > I wonder if the problem is electrical in nature, because the RPMs were > jumping around wildly. > > Since the tach and engine timing both get their signal from the crank > sensor, I'd also look in that area. I thought I read on here recently that an erratic tach that precedes a cut-out is a sign of a bad igniter. > > I wonder if the problem is electrical in nature, because the RPMs were > > jumping around wildly. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I thought I read on here recently that an erratic tach that precedes a > cut-out is a sign of a bad igniter. Not sure about any previous post on this issue, but the ignitor seems to just be a larger power transistor (probably a darlington, but that's besides a point). The way this transistor is configured, it simply acts as a switch that that closes/opens a contact when its input changes states (to simplify it all, imagine a relay with a coil and contact - that is not quite what a transistor is, but behaves quite similarly the way an ignitor is hooked up). When a level is applied to its input, it switches the primary side (the 12V side, basically) of the coil to ground and does this at a very high rate of speed. The secondary of the coil is what generates a high voltage spark. The output of the ignitor does not seem to attach to anything else so iti it breaks you won't have spark. I don't think the tach is getting its signal from the ignitor, so don't see how one can tell by the tach that the ignitor is bad. If you somehow can detect this on the tach, it must be some sort of weird artifact. Remco >> > I wonder if the problem is electrical in nature, because the RPMs were >> > jumping around wildly. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Remco Actually, I believe the tach does get its signal from a separate lead on the igniter. The current symptoms do sound like igniter trouble, but the igniter (and tune-up parts) are a little less than a year old... from March, IIRC. I might be wise to re-heatsink the igniter, though. What makes me think it isn't distributor sensor trouble is that there is no "check engine" light, suggesting the problem is past the ECU... i.e. igniter or coil, or high tension side (like the rotor or cap.) Mike > Actually, I believe the tach does get its signal from a separate lead on the > igniter. The electrical diagram for the ignition system suggests you are remembering correctly. See the top schematic at http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html . Tegger's version appears to confirm it: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-operation/index.html > The current symptoms do sound like igniter trouble, but the igniter > (and tune-up parts) are a little less than a year old... from March, IIRC. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "check engine" light, suggesting the problem is past the ECU... i.e. igniter > or coil, or high tension side (like the rotor or cap.) Plus ISTM igniters don't exactly seem to die slowly, at least not the way coils often do. Igniters seem more like an all-or-nothing deal, with symptoms only for the very observant, at best. >> Actually, I believe the tach does get its signal from a > separate lead on the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > all-or-nothing deal, with symptoms only for the very > observant, at best. I have a Bosch coil ordered through alleurasianautoparts.com, should be here by Wednesday. Since there really is no way to determine whether the coil is failing intermittently and 225K miles is a lot of service to expect from one, it seemed like the prudent thing to do. I can check the ignition switch by seeing if the voltage across it fluctuates from one time to the next, but the coil keeps its secrets. In my experience, the more power a device handles the more likely it is to have a limited life. An ignition coil has to transform hefty currents into hefty high voltage jolts, so I don't expect it to last forever. Thanks again for the suggestion. Mike > >> Actually, I believe the tach does get its signal from a > > separate lead on the [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Mike I'm with Elle on the ignitor's failure mode. One would imagine that these things just fail very quickly (unless it is thermal in nature, oif course) Could it be that the power to the ignitor is intermittent - A bad contact in that path somewhere? Imagine a bad intermittent contact on the 12V (or ground) to the ignitor while the car is running. It would certainly translate into bad spark (too narrow) and getting noise on the tach lead.. Remco > > Actually, I believe the tach does get its signal from a > separate lead on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > version appears to confirm it: > http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-operation/index.html You're absolutely right - I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead anyone. It has been a while since I looked at the ignitor and didn't have my manual handy, but that's a bad defense <blushing> This is why we need those pros, huh :) Remco > I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead > anyone. > It has been a while since I looked at the ignitor and didn't have my > manual handy, but that's a bad defense <blushing> I've looked at the schematic I cited and Tegger's igniter site closely at least half a dozen times each this past year, and I forgot about the tach output until Michael P. mentioned and I re-checked. That the Tach signal comes from the igniter doesn't exactly pass the common sense test. At least not at first blush, afaic. I trust you see Tegger's site confirms the rest of your conjecture, about the igniter being mostly a Darlington pair transistor, yada. > This is why we need those pros, huh :) Yes, plus repair manual hounds. :-) > > I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead > > anyone. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the igniter doesn't exactly pass the common sense test. At > least not at first blush, afaic. Aw, shuks - now you're just trying to make me feel better :) Yeah, that is kinda weird how they have the tach input coming from the ignitor. One would imagine they could have just as easily taken the signal going to the ignitor (possibly current boost it a little) and feed it into the tach directly. Less wire and things that can go wrong, imo... Maybe they did that as a trouble shooting measure or we can use at as such: This morning I cranked my wife's integra and noticed that while cranking the tach moves very slightly. Maybe if a honda cranks and the tach does not move it is an indication that the ignitor is bad..? That would be an interesting thought. Wonder how Michael is making out with this thing. Remco > Elle wrote: > > > I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Aw, shuks - now you're just trying to make me feel better :) You and anyone else who posts or lurks here. This was not an easy catch, IMO. But as importantly, a group like this will thrive only with open-mindedness and polite honesty. (Not that I excel at these, but I know I'm supposed to try... :-) > Yeah, that is kinda weird how they have the tach input coming from the > ignitor. One would imagine they could have just as easily taken the > signal going to the ignitor (possibly current boost it a little) and > feed it into the tach directly. I thought maybe this might be happening anyway. The igniter gets input from the ECU, of course, after all. On further thought, the RPM signal really had to be someplace in the vicinity of the camshaft or crankshaft. And someplace protected, like the distributor housing. I am thinking many other cars have their tach input coming from somewhere within the distributor as well. > Less wire and things that can go wrong, > imo... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cranking the tach moves very slightly. Maybe if a honda cranks and the > tach does not move it is an indication that the ignitor is bad..? Tegger's site certainly puts emphasis on this notion. See http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/igniter-operation/badigniter. html I see on further examination that Tegger's drawing (at another of his sites on the igniter) has the Tach signal coming out of the igniter's control chip, for one thing. > That > would be an interesting thought. > > Wonder how Michael is making out with this thing. <Whispering: Why's one of our regulars buying a non-OEM coil?> > <Whispering: Why's one of our regulars buying a non-OEM > coil?> Lol -- yeah, I was kinda wondering the same thing. That aforementioned mentioned politeness thing had me keeping it to myself. Sorry for getting on your case, Michael. :) >> <Whispering: Why's one of our regulars buying a non-OEM >> coil?> > > Lol -- yeah, I was kinda wondering the same thing. That aforementioned > mentioned politeness thing had me keeping it to myself. > Sorry for getting on your case, Michael. :) I wonder if using a non-integral distributor cap/coil like the separate MSD racing coil and plain distributor cap would be a more durable system? MSD is supposed to have a good reputation. I never liked the idea of an integral cap and coil.  SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > Wonder how Michael is making out with this thing. > > Remco Thanks for asking! Kinda in a holding pattern. My daughter got back with it just now, so I can check out the ignition switch and the engine ground. No failures since Friday, though. Whether that's good news or bad news is a matter of perspective :-} Mike >> > I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead >> > anyone. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Remco I doubt a starter will crank the motor fast enough to make any significant reading on the tach. What's the smallest RPM indication on the tach,100 RPM? No starter turns the motor that fast. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > >> > I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead > >> > anyone. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > -- Well, FWIW on my wife's Integra I see the needle bump around zero when it starts. It would be interesting to see if it still does that with a bad ignitor.. Remco >> >> > I stand corrected and didn't mean to mislead >> >> > anyone. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Remco Remember that the internal circuit of the "igniter" has an IC to measure coil current("dwell")and provide the proper drive to the Darlinton current switch. The tach drive could come from the IC. I haven't yet found the exact IC number to provide a datasheet to examine,to know for certain. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote > > Yeah, that is kinda weird how they have the tach input coming from the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > What's the smallest RPM indication on the tach,100 RPM? > No starter turns the motor that fast. Doesn't this assume that it's mechanical motion of the crankshaft or camshaft that actuates the tachometer? If so, I'm not so sure I buy your reasoning. I thought it was strictly a digital signal from the igniter (in particular, its computer chip) that actuated the tachometer. That is, the igniter computer chip certainly is not actually sensing degrees of crank- or camshaft rotation. Instead it receives signals from the ECU to excite the base of the igniter's transistor yada, in proportion to the rate at which the primary of the coil is supposed to be energized. This of course determines the plug firing rate, which will certainly determine, ordinarily, the engine RPM. The computer chip "measures" engine RPM through on/off switching of some kind (and so is digital and not analog in nature?). I would think that the momentary signals from the ECU at starting may very well cause something like noise in the tachometer signal, causing it to jump a bit. Again, Tegger's site puts a lot of emphasis on watching the tach to diagnose a bad igniter. > > "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote > > > Yeah, that is kinda weird how they have the tach input [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > Again, Tegger's site puts a lot of emphasis on watching the > tach to diagnose a bad igniter. Makes sense to me. If the ignitor's drive comes from the ECM and clearly fires when the car is starting (one needs spark, after all), you should see it on the tach, albeit at a very low frequency. I had not read tegger's page on the ignitor in quite a while until today. Seems like you can indeed tell by looking at the tach wheter the ignitor is bad. (That site is quite a great resource, isn't it? He's done a hell of a job on it - can't get over that every time I visit it..) Remco "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote On Tegger's site: > (That site is quite a great resource, isn't it? He's done a hell of a > job on it - can't get over that every time I visit it..) Today I was reading his fairly new "online OEM parts sources" site. Quite an interesting read. I hope to try the Colorado online parts store he lists sometime soon. Its shipping appears a little more straightforward and may be cheaper than Majestic's or SLHonda's. The parts prices themselves look about the same. >> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote >> > Yeah, that is kinda weird how they have the tach input [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > crankshaft or camshaft that actuates the tachometer? If so, > I'm not so sure I buy your reasoning. But during CRANKING,the ECU reads the crankshaft (CK)sensor to determine firing pulses to FEED the igniter.So,tach pulses are still dependent on the ECU and engine RPM. > I thought it was strictly a digital signal from the igniter > (in particular, its computer chip) that actuated the > tachometer. That is, the igniter computer chip certainly is > not actually sensing degrees of crank- or camshaft rotation. No,the crankshaft sensor is doing that. Spark plugs fire -at a certain position of the piston in each cylinder- ,determined by the ECU,thru the CK sensor.Not by RPM. > Instead it receives signals from the ECU to excite the base > of the igniter's transistor yada, in proportion to the rate > at which the primary of the coil is supposed to be > energized. This of course determines the plug firing rate, > which will certainly determine, ordinarily, the engine RPM. You have it backwards.On *starting*(cranking),the CK sensor reads engine crank position,and the ECU reads that and calculates the triggers for the igniter.The starter determines the cranking RPM,the ECU reads it thru the CKsensor (piston position)and triggers the igniter,where a supplementary signal is tapped to run the tach. BTW,the igniter fires the coil *4 times* for each revolution of the crank,so the tach circuit divides by 4 to get true RPM,or the igniter IC does that internally.Probably the latter. > The computer chip "measures" engine RPM through on/off > switching of some kind (and so is digital and not analog in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Again, Tegger's site puts a lot of emphasis on watching the > tach to diagnose a bad igniter. The IC inside the igniter is to optimize coil current for hottest spark,and provide proper base drive for the Darlinton.The coil generates it's HV on the *shut-off* of the Darlington (that's the "flyback" pulse),not the turn- on,which is only to *charge* the coil's magnetic field.The IC is there to insure the coil gets a full charge no matter what RPM,that used to be called "dwell time",the time the points were closed and charging the coil,flyback and HV occuring when the points *opened* after charging the coil. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote > >> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > You have it backwards. I just omitted the effect of the CK sensor. The main point--that the signal to the tach is digital and in response to the ECU signal, and may be sufficiently electronically yada noisy to yield some jiggling of the tach upon starting--stands. > On *starting*(cranking),the CK sensor reads engine > crank position,and the ECU reads that and calculates the triggers for the > igniter.The starter determines the cranking RPM,the ECU reads it thru the > CKsensor (piston position)and triggers the igniter,where a supplementary > signal is tapped to run the tach. Yeahbut while starting, well within one camshaft revolution the ECU is signalling the igniter, whose computer chip is still signalling the tach. I'm just saying ISTM there's some kind of signal to the tach being generated, starting well within one camshaft revolution. > BTW,the igniter fires the coil *4 times* for each revolution of the > crank, I believe you mean for each /two revolutions/ of the crank. It's a four-stroke engine; takes two revolutions for each piston to have gone through firing TDC (in a four-cylinder car) once; etc. > > BTW,the igniter fires the coil *4 times* for each > revolution of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > piston to have gone through firing TDC (in a four-cylinder > car) once; etc. FWIW, there's no real reason to "NOT" have it fire. There's just nothing there to burn half the time. > Elle <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote > > > BTW,the igniter fires the coil *4 times* for each [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > FWIW, there's no real reason to "NOT" have it fire. Sure there is. For one thing, it would shorten the life of spark plugs, wires, and coil, potentially by quite a lot. Weird comment... > There's just nothing there > to burn half the time. >> "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote >> >> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > I just omitted the effect of the CK sensor. The main > point--that the signal to the tach is digital Meaning there's ON and OFF and no inbetween. > and in > response to the ECU signal, and may be sufficiently > electronically yada noisy to yield some jiggling of the tach > upon starting--stands. The jitter would be due to normal timing variation of firing pulses from the ECU/CKsensor system,not from "noise" which would not affect a digital signal.(after all,it's a closed-LOOP system.) And the inertia of the digital to analog conversion to drive the tach needle smooths out jitter. The tach jitter is essentially meaningless,as the motor is not turning fast enough to give a true indication of RPM,RPMs being below the minimum calibrations of the tach dial. Note I previously said "significant reading". >> >> I doubt a starter will crank the motor fast enough to > make >> > any significant >> >> reading on the tach. >> >> What's the smallest RPM indication on the tach,100 RPM? >> >> No starter turns the motor that fast. Actually,I think the RPM calibration begins at a few hundred RPM,then linearly increases from there. >> On *starting*(cranking),the CK sensor reads engine >> crank position,and the ECU reads that and calculates the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the ECU is signalling the igniter, whose computer chip is > still signalling the tach. (well,the igniter chip is not a "computer" chip,it's analog;a current- sensing comparator to insure a full coil charge,that "dwell" stuff.) > I'm just saying ISTM there's some kind of signal to the tach > being generated, starting well within one camshaft > revolution. Yes,the tach pulses get generated,but not enough pulses or fast enough to be significant.I haven't gotten a look at the specific circuitry of the igniter IC to be sure that tach pulses would not be generated even if the Darlington was blown and no current being switched thru the coil.The ECU could be triggering the IC and tach pulses passed on,but no Darlington drive or a dead Darlington. >> BTW,the igniter fires the coil *4 times* for each > revolution of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > piston to have gone through firing TDC (in a four-cylinder > car) once; etc. You got me there. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote > > I just omitted the effect of the CK sensor. The main [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The jitter would be due to normal timing variation of firing pulses from > the ECU/CKsensor system, Sure. I was being loose with "noise" and probably crossed the line to inaccuracy. > not from "noise" which would not affect a digital > signal.(after all,it's a closed-LOOP system.) AFAIC, noise can be a problem, regardless of whether the system is closed loop or open loop. For example, the ignition system has a radio noise condenser in it (meaning, I hope as you know, this condenser reduces interference with the ECU, the car radio, and probably the igniter's transistors. Reports from two of our regulars here are that this condenser's removal or aging can definitely adversely affect ignition and so engine performance. > And the inertia of the digital to analog conversion to drive the tach > needle smooths out jitter. > The tach jitter is essentially meaningless,as the motor is not turning fast > enough to give a true indication of RPM,RPMs being below the minimum > calibrations of the tach dial. Meaningless as far as indicating actual RPM. Meaningful as far as possibly using it to diagnose an igniter failure. Or so it seems to me for now. I don't agree or disagree with the rest. My only interest was proposing that the Tach response could give an indication of igniter mis-operation. No disrespect intended; I prefer to get the bulk of my electronics lessons from other than Usenet. It's too hard to communicate important detail on internet boards. ============================================================ TOPIC: Ignition cut-out http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.honda/browse_thread/thread/e8a5fd8cba927459 ============================================================ > == 4 of 11 == > Date: Tues, Dec 27 2005 2:39 am > From: "Elle" snip > Instead [the igniter computer chip] receives signals > from the ECU to excite the base of the igniter's > transistor yada, in proportion to the rate at which > the primary of the coil is supposed to be energized. > This of course determines the plug firing rate, which > will certainly determine, ordinarily, the engine RPM. Most interesting. . "Elle" <honda.lioness@earthlink.net> wrote > My 91 Civic's first coil lasted ten years, 120k miles. My > one non-OEM coil lasted less than two years, about 35k > miles. Correction. The non-OEM coil lasted a little less than 20k miles. About half that time it was also feeding non-OEM wires. |
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