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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2006Disabling ABS
disabling ABS for snowy (not icey) conditions. When I'm driving on fresh snow, I'd rather be able to lock my tires up and build up some snow ahead of the tires than to let the ABS pulsate and cause the tires to slip along on top of the snow. Would pulling a fuse or unplugging the module work to turn off ABS? Would this hurt my 96 Accord? maybe buy some winter tires instead, or some that have some traction so the abs can work. Or failing that just keep driving on your bald tires, and perhaps disconnnect your break lights while your at it > disabling ABS for snowy (not icey) conditions. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Would pulling a fuse or unplugging the module work to turn off ABS? > Would this hurt my 96 Accord? Sorry to say this, but you are an idiot. G-Man > disabling ABS for snowy (not icey) conditions. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Would pulling a fuse or unplugging the module work to turn off ABS? > Would this hurt my 96 Accord? Are you really contimplating disconnecting the ABS? Why would you want to defeat a system that has great benefits? Professor www.telstar-electronics.com > Are you really contimplating disconnecting the ABS? > Why would you want to defeat a system that has great benefits? > > Professor > www.telstar-electronics.com it has benefits in some circumstances for "average" drivers, but the situation the op described is /precisely/ the kind of situation where abs is indeed undesirable. read the owners manual for weasel worded disclaimers about abs not being ideal for all situations. >> Are you really contimplating disconnecting the ABS? >> Why would you want to defeat a system that has great benefits? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >abs is indeed undesirable. read the owners manual for weasel worded >disclaimers about abs not being ideal for all situations. I am not an average driver. I'm a control freak. I like being in full control of my vehicle. In addition to wanting to be in full control of my brakes, I like to be in full control of my transmission. One of the main criteria I look for when buying a car is that it must be a manual transmission. So, If you think I'm an idiot, that's fine. I know that I have the skill to handle a car in an emergency stop without ABS. So, does anyone know: Is there an easy way to disable ABS without causing any damage to the car? >>>Are you really contimplating disconnecting the ABS? >>>Why would you want to defeat a system that has great benefits? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > One of the main criteria I look for when buying a car is that it must > be a manual transmission. so how does that make you different from the rest of us on this ng??? > So, If you think I'm an idiot, that's fine. I know that I have the > skill to handle a car in an emergency stop without ABS. > > So, does anyone know: Is there an easy way to disable ABS without > causing any damage to the car? google this group!!! it's been posted here many many times. and check tegger.com for the faq's. >>>>Are you really contimplating disconnecting the ABS? >>>>Why would you want to defeat a system that has great benefits? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >google this group!!! it's been posted here many many times. and check >tegger.com for the faq's. Ok! Will do... Thanks Jim! No... I don't think you're an idiot. I just think that maybe you may be misinformed. If you think you have superhero skills... and can outperform the ABS in an emergency situation... then I question your rationale. Professor www.telstar-electronics.com >No... I don't think you're an idiot. I just think that maybe you may be >misinformed. If you think you have superhero skills... and can >outperform the ABS in an emergency situation... then I question your >rationale. And, as everyone else who actually knows what they're talking about has said, ABS is NOT the best thing in all situations. On loose ground, locking the wheels is preferable to cadence braking (manual or ABS-automated) as it packs material under the tyres, shortening the stopping distance. As others have said, read what the manufacturers say about ABS - even they say its 'not ideal in all circumstances' >Professor >www.telstar-electronics.com It's nice to know that there are so many people responding to this thread that are much smarter than the automotive engineers that designed the ABS system. Thanks for all your invaluable knowledge. Professor www.telstar-electronics.com >It's nice to know that there are so many people responding to this >thread that are much smarter than the automotive engineers that >designed the ABS system. Thanks for all your invaluable knowledge. niec to see there's people like you who don't read what they ACTUALLY say either. You take the Cliff-notes route through life, and thats fine for you, but don't profsres knowledge in any areas when you do so. As many have said, including myself, read the caviets for the ABS systems one of my vehicles says in its owners manual "ABS system may not provide optimal braking in all conditions" I have an old rally handbook from the early 70s too, for new drivers comming into the sport, it says pretty much the same, that on loose surfaces, locking the wheels is a more effective braking method. In short though, material packs in front of your wheels, and you dig yourself in effectively, and rearranges the forces being dissapoated differently to standard tarmac braking. Its hard to explain without good deal of diagrams and calculus. Suffice to say that this is another subject, where high school educations are the basic generalities, and not the actualities. >Professor >www.telstar-electronics.com > >It's nice to know that there are so many people responding to this > >thread that are much smarter than the automotive engineers that [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Professor > >www.telstar-electronics.com I completely agree with you, and I too took the time to actually read my instruction manual and noticed that little caveat about ABS. My manual actually specifically said that in snowy conditions, ABS would INCREASE stopping distances. Also, in extention of what you were saying, a simple way of demonstrating how it works is to say that basically, the material being packed in front of the tires acts in a similar fashion to a door stop. Sean Sounds like the best solution is to have a toggle switch to turn ABS on and off as appropriate. Does anyone know of an easy way to do this without damaging the car? > Sounds like the best solution is to have a toggle switch to turn ABS > on and off as appropriate. Does anyone know of an easy way to do this > without damaging the car? That would be tricky since I think the fuse for the ABS system is under the hood as opposed to in the dash. I would also be a little concerned about the legality of disabling a safety feature that the car came equipped with. I think some jurisdiction forbid the disabling of standard safety features. This became an issue when some people wanted to disable air bags for personal safety reasons. I've been told for example, that in many Canadian provinces, disabling the air bags is illegal since they came with the car as a safety feature. ABS may also fall under that category. In addition, if you were to have an accident and your insurance company discovered that you disabled your ABS, they could technically refuse coverage by arguing that the missing safety feature was a contributing factor in the accident. Just a little food for thought. You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a panic situation. This steering ability could be key in crash avoidance... Professor www.telstar-electronics.com > You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has > mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Professor > www.telstar-electronics.com dude, you can /only/ steer if you have sufficient adhesion. just because you have abs doesn't mean you can steer. all that abs achieves, and my grandmother is a great example of this, is some hope of crash-avoidance in a situation where a panicking driver locks the wheels and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key disclaimer of the owners manual. I think you better sit back and have another whiskey... Jim Beam Professor www.telstar-electronics.com > > You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has > > mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > dude, "you can /only/ steer if you have sufficient adhesion." Exactly, it's anti-LOCK brakes, not anti-skid brakes. If you are doing 30 miles per hour on an icy turn and you slam on the brakes, the wheel may not lock but there is a decent chance the car's inertia will make you slide on the ice because of the sudden deceleration, front tires without traction don't steer, even if they are turning. Mr. Professor seems to assume that all people slam on the brakes with full force in a panic situation. There are some of us who have had driver training and learned "threshold braking". It's basically the manual way of doing what ABS is doing. There's called skills. ABS was invented to protect the people who don't know that technique. As for the professor's question in an earlier post about some being able to outperform the computer, properly exacuted threshold braking can stop a car in a shorter distance than ABS. No computer system will ever be able to outperform a skilled driver. The key word being "skilled". Not everyone is. This is why ABS exist. > because you have abs doesn't mean you can steer. all that abs achieves, > and my grandmother is a great example of this, is some hope of > crash-avoidance in a situation where a panicking driver locks the wheels > and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key > disclaimer of the owners manual. I'm just glad you guys aren't designing my car!... LOL Professor www.telstar-electronics.com > I'm just glad you guys aren't designing my car!... LOL > > Professor > www.telstar-electronics.com don't you think it a high risk strategy to call yourself "professor" if you don't know what you're talking about? and worse, don't know when to not /prove/ you don't know what you're talking about? >>>You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >>>mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > No computer system will ever be able to outperform a skilled driver. technically, that's not quite correct, but the conditions under which abs outperforms a skilled driver are fairly narrow in scope and require the abs to "know" the difference between tires, road conditions, etc. all current abs systems "know" [afaik] is whether the wheel is locked or not, and that's "dumb". > The > key word being "skilled". Not everyone is. This is why ABS exist. my experience with abs is that it's actually a very good idea on garbage slush boxes like buicks. for cars like that, the suspension is so soft, that sudden application of the brakes is initially taken up in the "slush" of suspension travel, not road resistance, and the wheel can almost instantaneously lock. as there's almost no driver feedback, the driver doesn't know what's going on until the whole car is starting to break loose - not good. and in this situation, i think the compromise that is abs is on balance a good idea. with a honda otoh, it's light, tight, and the driver can instantly feel what's going on, /way/ before the car brakes loose. the suspension is /not/ sloppy, so the "instant lock" phenomenon is not a feature of daily driving. in this case, i think abs is an option, and something i personally declined when i bought a new civic back in 2000. >>because you have abs doesn't mean you can steer. all that abs achieves, >>and my grandmother is a great example of this, is some hope of >>crash-avoidance in a situation where a panicking driver locks the wheels >>and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key >>disclaimer of the owners manual. >> > You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >> > mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >force in a panic situation. There are some of us who have had driver >training and learned "threshold braking". Actually, its properly called Cadence braking > It's basically the manual way of >doing what ABS is doing. There's called skills. ABS was invented to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key >> disclaimer of the owners manual. > >> > You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has > >> > mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Actually, its properly called Cadence braking If you'd bothered to google both terms you'd know that they are both equally accepted terms for basically the same technique. > > It's basically the manual way of > >doing what ABS is doing. There's called skills. ABS was invented to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >> and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key > >> disclaimer of the owners manual. >>>>>You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >>>>>mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > If you'd bothered to google both terms you'd know that they are both equally > accepted terms for basically the same technique. not really. cadence, like abs, is where you pass /through/ the threshold of adhesion, lock and have to release. threshold is where you brake /at/ the adhesion limit, but don't pass through it. >>>It's basically the manual way of >>>doing what ABS is doing. There's called skills. ABS was invented to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>>>and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key >>>>disclaimer of the owners manual. > >>>>>You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has > >>>>>mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > threshold of adhesion, lock and have to release. threshold is where you > brake /at/ the adhesion limit, but don't pass through it. So cadence braking is "pumping" the brake where you lock and unlock, whereas threshold is where you constantly apply the max pressure without locking to get the most out of the brakes, right? The technique I learned was threshold braking, where you hit the brakes hard, when you feel the wheel starting to lock, release the slightest amount of pressure to prevent locking, then gradually apply more pressure to brake as you slow down, always staying on the verge of locking. As I said earlier, a properly performed threshold brake will outperform ABS because there is no release in brake pressure. I still use threshold braking on my car. ABS just prevents locking if I accidentally apply too much pressure. It's a safeguard, but I don't depend in it. P.S. My apologies to the poster I responsed to earlier. My response was snotty. I'd just gotten off work and was in a rotten mood. > >>>It's basically the manual way of > >>>doing what ABS is doing. There's called skills. ABS was invented to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >>>>and won't release them again. /you/ seem to be overlooking the key > >>>>disclaimer of the owners manual. >You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Professor >www.telstar-electronics.com You are absolutely correct. I have seen this demonstrated at two performance driving schools I attented. After the instructors finished the demonstration, the students got a chance to try it. It made me a believer. I'm sure I'll get replies saying I don't know what I'm talking about and the instructors didn't either. I'll give my response ahead of time. Spend a few days and a little money and go to a school taught by professional drivers. You will be amazed at what you will learn. >>You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >>mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > school taught by professional drivers. You will be amazed at what you > will learn. the place for abs is on slush buckets where the driver has no feedback on what's happening with the wheels, trucks where the driver has no feedback on what's happening with the wheels, locomotives where the driver has no feedback on what's happening with the wheels, planes where... get the idea? for a light & tight vehicle like a honda [this /is/ a honda group, right?] it's only necessary if the driver can't/won't/doesn't threshold brake. braking distance is a function of energy absorbed. abs chops up the absorption curve into chunks as it goes above and below threshold repeatedly. the abs can't moderate the degree of pressure to achieve threshold, nor can it hold it at threshold. all it can do is sense whether the wheel is locked, release, and so on. each time it releases, it passes threshold, each time it releases, it passes threshold. this may be fine in reasonable friction conditions where the braking effect between each release is considerable and the total energy absorbed quickly accumulates, but in low friction conditions, this can introduce considerable time delay into the energy absorption equation. try stopping quickly in snow with abs and see where it gets you. >>>You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >>>mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >considerable time delay into the energy absorption equation. try >stopping quickly in snow with abs and see where it gets you. My prediction was correct. I knew it would be. IRMC. BTW: Your "Shift Key" isn't working. PLONK! You won't stir my pot again. >>>>You are all overlooking a key feature of ABS... that nobody has >>>>mentioned. It's the ability to steer after you stomp on the brake in a [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > My prediction was correct. I knew it would be. IRMC. BTW: Your "Shift > Key" isn't working. PLONK! You won't stir my pot again. a worthy technical analysis. thanks for contributing to the knowledge pool by sharing your expertise. > disabling ABS for snowy (not icey) conditions. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Would pulling a fuse or unplugging the module work to turn off ABS? > Would this hurt my 96 Accord? how to disable abs comes up on this group regularly. google is your friend. |
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