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Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 2006New tires on 98 Accord LX - Do I need an alignment?
I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with 75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at Costco told me to get an alignment and they implied it would protect my tire warranty. They said get an alignment every year. I think I have had one alignment since new. I am wondering if I really need one. There is zero vibration or shimmy in the steering wheel. If I take my hands off the wheel, (hold them an inch away from the wheel & when no cars are around) the cars drives totally straight and the wheel do not vibrate or anything. The tires have a 60,000 mile warranty, 500 rating and Costco provides free rotation, road hazard the works. > I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with > 75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The tires have a 60,000 mile warranty, 500 rating and Costco provides > free rotation, road hazard the works. what was the wear pattern on the old tires? The wear [attern looked pretty normal. No excessive wear on either side (inboard or outboard) of the front or rear tires. BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French) Uniroyal HRs. Thanks guys. Have 194K on a 97 accord - no alignment since purchase - tire wear is even - so if your tire wear is even - you don't need one. Also check tirerack.com for recommendations on tire brands - BF Goodrich is not a stellar choice IMHO. >BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of >tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French) >Uniroyal HRs. I have. These weren't crappy super hard cheapo rubber rim protector tires you get at discount auto stores. These were Goodyear Eagle NCT's on a Dodge Omni GLH Turbo. I got right around 40k miles out of the tires. I think the long life is attributable to a light weight car, (~2200lbs) on relatively wide (195mm) tires. --------------- Alex On 2/22/06 12:16 PM, in article dti9pn$qli$5@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu, >> BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of >> tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > --------------- > Alex I've gotten at least 40,000 miles off the original tires on every car I've bought since 1985 (before then - no). The Original equip Michelins on the 2000 TL went 49,000. The original Bridgestones on my 2002 Pathfinder still have at least one rotation (6,000 miles) left on them at 52,000. If the OP is only getting 25,000 from tires on a standard sedan, then I would say more frequent alignments are definitely in order. > I've gotten at least 40,000 miles off the original tires on every car I've > bought since 1985 (before then - no). The Original equip Michelins on the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If the OP is only getting 25,000 from tires on a standard sedan, then I > would say more frequent alignments are definitely in order. I imagine it could also depend how hard they're driven. ie: around corners, etc. Tire inflation as well, but inproper inflation would show uneven wear. >BTW - is anyone here able to get more than 25,000 miles on a set of >tires? I did once on a new 1984 VW Scirocco with excellent (French) >Uniroyal HRs. Yes. If you are only getting 25,000 miles on a set of tires, check the following: Tire air pressure -- too low and the tires will wear out quickly, as well as being less safe. Tire size, type, and rating -- sportier tires (with higher speed ratings) tend to have lesser tread life (S and T rated tires may last 80,000 miles, though some "budget" tires have far shorter tread lifes; H rated tires typically 50,000 to 60,000 miles, and sportier tires with higher speed ratings like V, Z, W, Y typically less). Check the load rating on the tires as well. Type of driving -- city driving will wear out tires (and other things in a car, like brake pads and oil) in less mileage than highway driving.  Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. > I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with > 75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at > Costco told me to get an alignment and they implied it would protect my > tire warranty. They said get an alignment every year. I think I have > had one alignment since new. did they notice abnormal wear on the old tires to the inboard or outboard sides? they dont do alignments, so thats the only reason i can think of that theyd tell you something like that. > I am wondering if I really need one. There is zero vibration or shimmy > in the steering wheel. dont need one, unless you notice uneven wear, or pulling to one side. > If I take my hands off the wheel, (hold them an inch away from the > wheel & when no cars are around) the cars drives totally straight and > the wheel do not vibrate or anything. > > The tires have a 60,000 mile warranty, 500 rating and Costco provides > free rotation, road hazard the works. costco will warrant the tires regardless of if you align the car or not. > I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with > 75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The tires have a 60,000 mile warranty, 500 rating and Costco provides > free rotation, road hazard the works. Some shops have a computerized slide slip meter that they can drive the car over which senses how many feet per mile the tires are pulling sideways. This test will help to determine if you really need an alignment. Call around to a few different shops in your area. One shop that I know of will do the test for free since it only takes a minute or two. By the way, an alignment per year sounds excessive. The best thing you can do for your tires is to keep them properly inflated to the car's recommended pressure. Also check for unusual wear patterns and get them rotated front to back regularly. I do mine at every other oil change. I also bought tires at Costco, but I won't let them rotate the tires any more since they messed up one of my lugnuts (just about the only way to mess up the threads on a lugnut is to start the threads with the nut in your air tool instead of by hand and people making this type of mistake are usually found in a high school shop class or they belong there). Eric >I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with > 75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The tires have a 60,000 mile warranty, 500 rating and Costco provides > free rotation, road hazard the works. The shadetree trick to check whether you need alignment to prevent tire wear: stick strips of masking tape across the treads of the front tires from sidewall to sidewall and find a reasonably straight stretch of road to drive for a mile or so. Pull over and look at the tape. If it is worn evenly on the inside and outside edges, roughly matching the wear in the center, you are wearing okay. If the inside or outside edges are more worn you need an alignment. If you haven't had anything replaced in the front end and the steering wheel sits straight when you drive the alignment is probably okay. It's rare for the alignment to be "knocked out" by a big bump without affecting one side more than the other and so making the steering off-center. Mike I paid about $45 for a four wheel alignment at a Firestone dealer after popping for a set of Bridgestones. The alignment was way off om my 2001 Accord V6-EX with about 45K. Spring for the alignment. >I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with >75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >The tires have a 60,000 mile warranty, 500 rating and Costco provides >free rotation, road hazard the works. sounds odd to me. Costco doesn't do alignments, so it's not like they are trying to sell you an unecessary service to make more money. Did they refer you to specific shop? Maybe they are getting a kick back? Unless you are getting abnormal wear of your tires or the car is pulling to one side, you don't need to get an alignment. -------------- Alex They did not refer me to any specific shop. There are no auto repair shops near this Costco location. There is no vibration in the steering wheel at all, car drives stratight as an arrow and the wear on the old tires looked normal. As much as I hate to admit it Costco is right. An alignment is to tell you and the tire seller that your car is within specs and should not wear the tires prematurely. If in 15000 miles you notice the tires have wear on the inside edge and are now considered unsafe, then the seller may say too bad. OTOH, if you can prove your car didn't wear out the tires, then your challenging the tire manufactures mileage warranty. Firestone offers a lifetime alignment, and using this I have seen several customers get new tires at 20000 miles because the tires were suppose to last 40000 AND because they were in every 6 month or so keeping up on the alignment the ball was in there court (so to say) For about 20$ Firestone offers a alignment check. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ > They did not refer me to any specific shop. There are no auto repair > shops near this Costco location. There is no vibration in the steering > wheel at all, car drives stratight as an arrow and the wear on the old > tires looked normal. >As much as I hate to admit it Costco is right. An alignment is to tell you >and the tire seller that your car is within specs and should not wear the >tires prematurely. No they are not. Cars don't spontanteously go out of alignment. If your prior set of tires wore evenly across the tread, there is no reason to believe you need to get an alignment just because you bought new tires. It is a waste of time and money. >If in 15000 miles you notice the tires have wear on the >inside edge and are now considered unsafe, then the seller may say too bad. As it should be since uneven wear is usually caused by something other than a defective tire. >OTOH, if you can prove your car didn't wear out the tires, then your >challenging the tire manufactures mileage warranty. If you get an alignment when you buy the new tires, it doesn't prove anything except that the car was properly aligned when you left the garage. You could hit a pothole that throws your car out of alignment on the way home for the mechanics. >Firestone offers a lifetime alignment, and using this I have seen several >customers get new tires at 20000 miles because the tires were suppose to >last 40000 AND because they were in every 6 month or so keeping up on the >alignment the ball was in there court (so to say) Tires that wear out prematurely becuase of poor alignment are easy to spot because the wear is uneven. So getting your alignment checked regularly is not necessary. The lifetime alignment is used by some places to try to sell you more services. When you bring your car in to get checked, they always find something else that needs attention. ------------ Alex You miss the point... This alignment isn't about the car its about the tires. We have in our shop tires warranted to last 60000... We put them on your car and in 30,000 miles they are worn out. You come back to the shop and scream about the tires not living up to your expatiations "You promised they would last longer" But if you toe was out just a bit and your camber was out just a bit, then this caused the tires not to last. You might be able to see on the old tires if there is an issue; but can you prove it later? We have customers who don't rotate tires as suggested and wonder why the tires are wearing funny, or why the fronts are bald and the rears are not. A week ago we repaired the wheel bearings and put new tires on a local delivery car; on the test drive the wheel is offcenter and it pulled; he declined the free alignment check; when he comes back with worn tires in 2 months sure enough it will be our fault. The alignment is suggested to VALIDATE the tire warranty.. If you say "NO" then the mileage warranty is Void; the same as if you decline the extended warranty on something you buy. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ >>As much as I hate to admit it Costco is right. An alignment is to tell you >>and the tire seller that your car is within specs and should not wear the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > ------------ > Alex >You miss the point... This alignment isn't about the car its about the >tires. It is about the car and the tires. A poorly aligned car will not handle properly, which is dangerous. >The alignment is suggested to VALIDATE the tire warranty.. >If you say "NO" then the mileage warranty is Void; the same as if you >decline the extended warranty on something you buy. If that is the case, then the tire warranty should clearly state it. I never buy tires because of a wear warranty. Those types of tires tend to be poor performers. So it is a non-issue for me. -------------- Alex Most all tires have some sort of mileage warranty; If you choose to look at it and use it is up to you. The higher performance tires do not; especially the 50 series and such and those with z-rating ect. Also some aggressive truck tires do not also; this is up to the manufacture A car that is radically out of alignment MAY cause handling problem and be unsafe; but generally speaking most alignment issues boil down to pulls, drifts and tire wear. I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous on the road prior to the job. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ >>You miss the point... This alignment isn't about the car its about the >>tires. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -------------- > Alex > Most all tires have some sort of mileage warranty; If you choose to look at > it and use it is up to you. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous on the > road prior to the job. maybe not pottering about town or straight line on a freeway, but i assure you, if the rear alignment on a civic is out, it radically affects cornering stability - it makes a huge difference to the adhesion limit and therefore can significantly reduce cornering speed. do the experiments yourself some time. >> I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous >> on the road prior to the job. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > adhesion limit and therefore can significantly reduce cornering speed. > do the experiments yourself some time. In principal I agree but, how many people actually drive 9-10ths on the road? I think alignment guy's speaking of normal drivers. In the back and front on normal honda's, the only adjustment is toe (how pointed in the tires are to each other). In the front, if the caster's off you actually have to loosen and move the entire subframe fore and aft (which means effectively it's not adjultable) . Camber's completely not adjustable. If you have bad camber, you've either lowered the car or something's bent. You can put adjustable parts in, if you want to change the camber, upper control arm's in the back and front can be replaced with adjustable ones. >>>I perform about 150-200 alignments a year, seldom are they dangerous >>>on the road prior to the job. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > In principal I agree but, how many people actually drive 9-10ths on the > road? I think alignment guy's speaking of normal drivers. but how many accidents occur at any less than 9/10th's? /and/ adhesion limit depends on alignment! > In the back and front on normal honda's, the only adjustment is toe (how > pointed in the tires are to each other). In the front, if the caster's off > you actually have to loosen and move the entire subframe fore and aft > (which means effectively it's not adjultable) . Camber's completely not > adjustable. If you have bad camber, you've either lowered the car or > something's bent. right, but if it's bent, straighten it! that's why we check these things! > You can put adjustable parts in, if you want to change the camber, upper > control arm's in the back and front can be replaced with adjustable ones. unless the car's lowered and as long as the bushings are factory, standard settings are fine. Stephen: Out of curiousity - do you see customers who actually get 60,000 million on a set off tires especially front wheel drive cars? Any brands you prefer? I always had weird stuff with Michelins as they would seem to attract nails. Well 60,000 million--never ;) A few push the 60K number; a regional tire distributor is advertising a 100,000 tire. Realistically that rubber would be so hard that I wonder if it would have any grip. Most people have forgotten about any warranty by the 60k mark, and if you don't quite make it then the tire dealer offers them a pro rated offer perhaps 10 dollars off each on the new set. My tire preference is the brand we sell, based on performance and what I see on a regular basis. Also my discount plays into it allot. There are a few of our names I don't like based upon the tread depth. I don't like tires that have the edge tread 2/32 less than the center because if you corner allot then you wear the tires edges and then your tire looks worn out while there is still tread in the center. I hate Michelins only because thy have a stiff sidewall and are hard to remove from the rim sometimes. But as far as being "nail magnets" it seems as though all tires are equal. We do see more nails and flats in tires that are 80% worn... SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ > Stephen: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Any brands you prefer? I always had weird stuff with Michelins as they > would seem to attract nails. > I hate Michelins only because thy have a stiff sidewall and are hard to > remove from the rim sometimes. But as far as being "nail magnets" it > seems as though all tires are equal. We do see more nails and flats in > tires that are 80% worn... Our Prius came with Potenza tires, which have a treadwear rating of 160 (!) - those really were "nail magnets." We had more punctures with those in two years than we had altogether in a 2-car family for more than 20 years. I think the soft compound let road debris get a perch and work its way into the tire. The Pirellis we put on haven't had a puncture yet. Mike yet OTOH, I've only seen a few punctures on the Prius/Potenza Combo... Perhaps you just had a string of bad luck? ;) But seriously, When the Prius came out it was pointed out that the tires had a heaver load rating than Standard Potenza's--We had to order extras in. We saw a lot of premature wear on those tires, not lasting near as long as needed, so the BOSS suggested bumping the pressure up a bit (34psi I believe) and the wear slowed down. A local shop put a Toyo on the car and when the dealer saw it they suggested the car be towed to a good tire shop to have a proper tire with the adequate load rating put on. Now this is all fine and dandy; and mind you this is Toyota thought process not my personal thought. Just be sure the Pirellis are rated for that car. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ >> I hate Michelins only because thy have a stiff sidewall and are hard to >> remove from the rim sometimes. But as far as being "nail magnets" it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Mike > They did not refer me to any specific shop. There are no auto repair > shops near this Costco location. There is no vibration in the steering > wheel at all, car drives stratight as an arrow and the wear on the old > tires looked normal. skip the alignment. id chalk the talk up to an overeager young tire monkey trying to sound more knowledgeable than he really is. he probably drives a mustang that needs an alignment every year :) On 2/20/06 12:48 PM, in article dtd2t5$jan$8@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu, >> I bought 4 new BF Goodrich tires for my 98 Accord LX 5-speed with >> 75,000 miles. The cars is very quiet now and very smooth. The guys at [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -------------- > Alex I think it must be part of Costco's normal advice. I bought tires there for my Acura once and they told me I should get an alignment prior to ever seeing the car. I think it is probably a safe assumption that the vast majority of cars need an alignment by the time they need tires. All tire shops should do this; it is to validate the tire manufactures mileage warranty-- Don't do it and the tires wear out in 10000 miles, you could eat the replacement cost; do it then you might get pro rated for the amount of tires you worn away. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ > On 2/20/06 12:48 PM, in article dtd2t5$jan$8@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > seeing the car. I think it is probably a safe assumption that the vast > majority of cars need an alignment by the time they need tires. >I think it must be part of Costco's normal advice. I bought tires there for >my Acura once and they told me I should get an alignment prior to ever >seeing the car. I think it is probably a safe assumption that the vast >majority of cars need an alignment by the time they need tires. Not true. I've owned cars that didn't need an alignment until suspension parts were changed. -------------- Alex And I've seen cars out of alignment from the factory. SignatureStephen W. Hansen ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance ASE Undercar Specialist http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/l/bl_obd_main.htm http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/ >>I think it must be part of Costco's normal advice. I bought tires there >>for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -------------- > Alex > And I've seen cars out of alignment from the factory. Absolutely Stephen! This DOES happen. Even the so-called luxury marque nameplates ship vehicles ocassionally with alignment issues right out of the chute. Ron M. |
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