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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2006Following the ABS troubleshooting steps; Have any suggestions?
Hey all, My Car is a 1993 honda Accord with manual transmission. I've had a problem with my ABS functionality for a few years now. My car was falling apart so I slowly started to fix all its problems. CV Axles (for an ABS car), strut replacement, muffler replacement and finally I got my cruise control working!! Now it's time to tackle my ABS. After starting my car the ABS light goes through its normal cycles and stays off. When I drive for about 30 seconds the light comes on and stays solid, no flashing. Following the manual's ABS troubleshooting section, I believe I am to jumper the SCS to get the DTC to flash on the instrument panel. I unplugged the B2 fuse temporarily to reset the DTC memory thinking it was remembering a previous code with no luck. First, the only suspect connector I could find only turns on my check engine light. I thought these two connectors were one in the same, but I guess perhaps there is another for the ABS? Going through the manual, some examples are given as to why the ABS light would come on and their respective codes. E.g. parking brake engaged for more than 30 seconds, the DTC is 2-1. However, my light stays solid and I do not know how to get the code from it... any suggestions? thanks, scube >Hey all, > My Car is a 1993 honda Accord with manual transmission. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >scube the scs connector is a two pin blue connector under the glovebox. jump it, then turn the key on. I bet you get 1 1- something. the 30 sec interval is the key. it's a high pressure failure. now go price an abs pump and prepare for heart failure. Chip If you have the service manual see the "Symptom Troubleshooting" list and check the items listed for the symptom of abs indicator stays on. Or, Check the power and the ground systems to the abs control unit. Make sure the control unit is securely mounted (grounded) to the body too. > Hey all, > My Car is a 1993 honda Accord with manual transmission. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > scube -- Tp, -------- __o ----- -\<. -------- __o --- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<. -------------------- ( )/ ( ) ----------------------------------------- No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... try checking the sensors. follow the sensor cable to inside the body and each one has it's own connector. open the connector and with an ohmmeter ( circuit tester ) test toward the sensor for continuity. you should get a reading from about 800 ohms to 1500 ohms. if you get an open circuit on one then it is kaput. twice on my 92 accord the abs lamp has come up and i have found it using this method. on another occasion it was the pump. i stripped the pump down and found the motor to be at fault the motor fields are permanent magnets which are just glued on to the yoke. rust had got underneath the magnet and lifted it so that it jammed onto the armature and locked it. good luck. > If you have the service manual see the "Symptom Troubleshooting" list and > check the items listed for the symptom of abs indicator stays on. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... I pulled each of the four plugs out and ohm'd them. Neither was close to 800 ohms. The highest ohm was ~500, and the others were lower, like near zero. Could these be bad if they are too low in resistance? My understanding is that the sensors pretty much are coils, so low resistance would not be terribly abnormal, correct? > I pulled each of the four plugs out and ohm'd them. Neither was close > to 800 ohms. The highest ohm was ~500, and the others were lower, > like near zero. Could these be bad if they are too low in resistance? > My understanding is that the sensors pretty much are coils, so low > resistance would not be terribly abnormal, correct? ----------------------------- '95 Odyssey was about 900 ohms all around. They are similar to the coil in a doorbell, mounted around a permanent magnet. The rear ones on an Ody can get a clump of iron filings on them which reduces sensitivity. 'Curly' > Hey all, > My Car is a 1993 honda Accord with manual transmission. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > scube ------------------------------------ You need to determine if it's TIME related or Movement related. What happens if you just start it and idle in the driveway? If it's OK for two minutes, but comes on as soon as you start to roll, it's probably a wheel sensor. Scrub the front tone rings with a fine wire brush, and be sure the sensor isn't 'dislodged' by a stone getting in there. You may find the blue connector plugged into a 'dummy' plug which keeps it from rattling. It's above or below the glove box, right? 'Curly' Thanks all!! When I start my car the light goes out as normal, but only when I drive it does it come on. And it seems to be a variable time length before it comes on. I would say it is deffinetely linked to motion. Also, my CV axles went bad and I drove those things into the ground. When I finally changed them out (I wish I did not wait as long, but I was broke) the boots had torn apart and grease was EVERYWHERE. I had to clean off all the accumulated crud off the speed sensors, so maybe there is a situation there. I also hit a curb quite a few years back, so maybe the knuckle is bent slightly and the sensor drifts from the ABS teeth on the CV joint, I can't really recall which came first here, the ABS problem or the curb problem. I'll try to get the car up in the air again this weekend and have a look at the sensors. I'm also hearing some noise coming from the back brakes, so maybe the problem lies there. I'm having over-heat issues as well, so I don't know when I can get to it. I'm guessing by the behavior that it is the thermostat, so that may not be a time consuming issue. Thanks for the suggestions.. > Thanks all!! > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thanks for the suggestions.. ------------------------------ For overheat problems, fill the reservoir to MAX a couple mornings in a row to see if it stabilizes. Use Premix, never tap water. It only takes a bit of grease on the tone rings to accumulate enough grunge to throw the ABS sensor off it's game. The manual calls for 1 mm clearance, but they always seem to have twice that much, and still work perfect. 'Curly' Was sick for a few days.. It has warmed up some here and I've noticed over the past few days that my brakes are working differently. when it is around 65 degrees or so there is no noticable issues (other than the ABS light coming on a half mile down the road), but when it gets up into the high 70's there is noticable spongy-ness in the brakes. When stopping they will slowly keep going to the floor. Once at the bottom the car doesn't move, but the hotter the car gets the less longer it takes to stop, or I have to push the pedal more.. Could this affect my ABS? I know ABS doesn't affect the main brakes, but could a faulty (perhaps master cylinder?) component in the main brakes affect the ABS? Thanks for any suggestions!! > Was sick for a few days.. > It has warmed up some here and I've noticed over the past few days [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks for any suggestions!! The pedal sinking to the floor is pretty classic for master cylinder trouble. Most often the pedal holds up if you keep a lot of pressure on it, then sinks if you lighten the pressure. Mike Yeah.. I'm thinking also the master cylinder is bad, perhaps I'll replace it this weekend. Man, this repair list on my car is growing fast!! I'm wondering though, if that would have an effect on the ABS not working. Is there a pressure test or something that could detect a faulty master cylinder and shut the ABS off? Mind you, the ABS only turns off after vehicle movement, not startup. My rear brakes make a rubbing noise, sorta like when you put new brakes pads on and they haven't mated w/ the rotors. I inspected the pads and they are fine, so I was wondering if the parking brake could need adjusting? Could this be causing the ABS 'turn off'? Thanks so much everyone... > Yeah.. > I'm thinking also the master cylinder is bad, perhaps I'll replace it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks so much everyone... ====== ====== Scube..... you need to find that connector and pull the ABS codes. It's going to save you some time. look again. The connector should be under the glove box area. If you're emails operating I'll send you a diagram. ~:~ marshmonster ~:~ yeah, my email works. I have diagrams from a shop manual. Is it the same connector that the 'check engine' light uses? I'll look some more. would it be under the rug or something? I jumpered the connector that I found, but only the check engine light came on (did not flash). > yeah, my email works. I have diagrams from a shop manual. Is it > the same connector that the 'check engine' light uses? I'll look some > more. would it be under the rug or something? > I jumpered the connector that I found, but only the check engine > light came on (did not flash). ======= ======= No...different connector. The ABS light will flash codes when the correct connector is jumpered. CHECK YOUR MAIL and let us know. ~:~ marsh ~:~ Hmmm, okay, I'll look. I tested my car in a long parking lot the other day and tried out some scenarios. There is no time related issue with the error. It is all speed related. As long as I stay below 10 MPH the light stays off. When I go above that it pops on, so I'm guessing it is a speed sensor. When I ohm'd out the speed sensors I got 0 ohms through one or two of them. Is that normal or acceptable? Could these be bad? I don't think the pump would be bad as there is no timeout issues with pressure or anything, but I guess I won't have anymore data until I check that connector. It'll have to wait a week, I'm away from my automobile. Thanks for the replies and help... > Hmmm, > okay, I'll look. I tested my car in a long parking lot the other [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I check that connector. It'll have to wait a week, I'm away from my > automobile. Thanks for the replies and help... ---------------------- Have you read the codes yet?? You seem to be pursuing an untamed ornithoid. Car moves above 10 km/hr, abs looks for sensors to 'CHECK IN', they don't, ABS light comes on. 'Curly' no, no codes yet. I'm away from my car now and was just tossing around some speculation. Since I can't play w/ it I've got to find someway to still mess with it.. Thanks for your help here... The pictures in the Email I got were not available. They didn't show up in my email and the picture link says they are temporary out of order. ALLDATA Online. Oh well... Hey all, I've torn apart everything near and around my right passenger door kick panel except all the carpet. I only see 1 two-input connector and it is quite visible. I can't find anything else aound there and I read here that the engine diagostic SCS is NOT the same as the ABS diagnostic SCS. But, It is the only one I can find! Assuming for a minute that this IS the same as the engine diagnostic SCS, I get no codes from the ABS light. My car is a manual 93 honda accord and the ABS light comes on after driving when the speed climbs to about 10mph (not before that speed though) and stays lit solid until the ingnition key is turned off and back on. I'm thinking it is a wheel speed sensor, which the manual says each sensor should have about 1000 - 1600 ohms resistances, and I get roughly zero ohms resistance. I guess the ABS control unit will remeber the diagnostic error from when I drove my car above 10mph and the light came on solid. So, when I turn my car off it will keep it in memory? Then, when I jumper the SCS it should recall this code and display it? Is this correct? I guess I'll try to jumper the connector I found once more and see what happens. So you are basically saying that you have one shorted out ABS sensor and the light is on bitching about it. I would just replace the sensor...... You could always just pull the light bulb that is annoying you or put some black elictrical tape over it..... ;-) Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Hey all, > I've torn apart everything near and around my right passenger door [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I guess I'll try to jumper the connector I found once more and see > what happens. Well, it turns out that engine diagnostic connector is the same as the ABS diagnostic connector. The ABS codes did not report anything wrong w/ the wheel sensors. They did report a pressure issue however. The flow chart in the manual says to bleed the high pressure fluid from the ABS system and measure it's volume. Then, run the pump a bit. There is a T-wrench tool that is used to turn the bleed valve. It is a square headed screw and I was wondering if anyone knows if I can get this valve open w/ out having to buy a $100 wrench. I know it's got a resevoir thing on top to catch the high pressue fluid, but what's wrong w/ a hose plugged over the valve opening and a wrench that is the correct size to turn the valve open. What size is the head of this bleed valve? anyone know for a 1993 honda Accord? I don't wanna buy a tool I'll use for one job one time..(hopefully..) thanks all! > Well, it turns out that engine diagnostic connector is the same as the > ABS diagnostic connector. The ABS codes did not report anything wrong [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > thanks all! You may find a 12 point socket will fit the screw. Honda seems to be in love with 12-points. Mike >> Well, it turns out that engine diagnostic connector is the same as the >> ABS diagnostic connector. The ABS codes did not report anything wrong [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Mike yup. id suggest going to wally world and buying a "drive bit" set... as big a set as you can find, with all the bits. see if anything fits. if so? good! if not? either way, you can return it :) save that receipt! > There is a T-wrench tool that is used to turn the bleed valve. It > is a square headed screw square head (sticking out), or recessed square drive? seems every "150+ piece" drive bit set i get as a gift comes with square, torx, star, hex, etc... crap i never use. 145 bits i never even touch :) > Well, it turns out that engine diagnostic connector is the same as the > ABS diagnostic connector. The ABS codes did not report anything wrong [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > thanks all! -------------------------------------- 8 or 10 mm combination wrench and a chunk of clear tubing from the wine making store. Bleed it several times, exercise the ABS HARD (gravel road) as soon as you can get it to keep the light off, and bleed it again. Lay damp rags around where you're working, and wash with water any spills. 'Curly' The manual says to hook the ALB checker to the ABS control unit and that can simulate the wheels skidding and pressurize the system. I don't have an ALB checker, so.. Instead I should bleed from the high pressure valve a few times and then skid my car on some gravel? Then bleed it again? Does the pump have to run a little bit to build up pressure to bleed again? I have an 8mm socket which won't fit, maybe the thru-hole on the socket isn't big enough for the nipple. I've seen the 8mm/10mm bleeder wrench at Autozone. This is what I should use? how about a regular 8mm box end wrench? Thanks all... |
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