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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 200691 Civic Won't Start
I have a 91 Civic Wagon that ran great but one day just wouldn't start anymore. I have spark at all plugs. I've dumped gas into the throtle body while cranking and still not even a sputter. The timing belt is intact and I checked that is hasn't jumped time. It uses oil, so I disconnected the catalytic converter thinking it could be restricted, but that made no difference. I just figure with spark and dumping gas in the throttle body I'd at least get it to sputter, but not a thing. The ECU blinks once when I turn the key to "on". I notice that the brake indicator comes on when cranking. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Chuck > I have a 91 Civic Wagon that ran great but one day just wouldn't start > anymore. I have spark at all plugs. I've dumped gas into the throtle [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > blinks once when I turn the key to "on". I notice that the brake > indicator comes on when cranking. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Do you hear the fuel pump running when the key is first turned to ON but not to START? This will coincide with the Check Engine light being on for two seconds. Have you looked into the throttle body while cranking to see if fuel is actually being sprayed? Have you tried to alleviate a *flooded* condition? Hold pedal to the floor, then try cranking for a while.  SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I have a 91 Civic Wagon that ran great but one day just wouldn't start >> anymore. I have spark at all plugs. I've dumped gas into the throtle [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > not to START? This will coincide with the Check Engine light being on for > two seconds. Yes, I hear this. I think it was your webpage that told about feeling the relay for 3 clicks. I have these. > Have you looked into the throttle body while cranking to see if fuel is > actually being sprayed? I don't see any fuel spray. I tried starting fluid and gas in the past and get nothing, not even a sputter. They may not reach the cylinders though with the car on jackstands the fuel may be draining the other direction. I guess I need to know what feeds the injectors. I've checked fuses. > Have you tried to alleviate a *flooded* condition? Hold pedal to the floor, > then try cranking for a while. > I don't see any fuel spray. I tried starting fluid and gas in the past > and get nothing, not even a sputter. They may not reach the cylinders > though with the car on jackstands the fuel may be draining the other > direction. > > I guess I need to know what feeds the injectors. I've checked fuses. If you have throttle-body injection, the injectors and the fuel pump all get their power from termial 7 of the Main Relay. No sputter at all is odd. With a good strong spark, you should be getting *some* sort of reponse from the engine. Have you checked ignition timing while cranking? Do you have the distributor somehow out of time 180 degrees? When was the timing belt changed last? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I don't see any fuel spray. I tried starting fluid and gas in the past >> and get nothing, not even a sputter. They may not reach the cylinders [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you have throttle-body injection, the injectors and the fuel pump all > get their power from termial 7 of the Main Relay. I just checked the solder joints on the relay. They all *looked* fine. > No sputter at all is odd. With a good strong spark, you should be getting > *some* sort of reponse from the engine. I just pulled all the plugs and checked for spark an its fine on all of them. In fact, what little gas was on the plugs would ignite. >Have you checked ignition timing > while cranking? Do you have the distributor somehow out of time 180 > degrees? When was the timing belt changed last? I looked at the top part of the belt when I adjusted the valves and saw nothing but I didn't really inspect the whole thing. What I saw didn't look bad. It was running fine and all of a sudden wouldn't start or do anything. I hate to think what the odds are of the thing jumping time *exactly* 180 degrees. I did notice that when the ignition is on, the EGR selinoid makes some noise. I also hear a click from the MAP sensor. I'm not sure if either of these are normal. BTW, what I call the EGR is what I think it is. My manual doesn't show much. What I'm calling the EGR is located on the RH side of the intake and has hoses to intake and air cleaner. I don't know if either of these would cause it to fail starting. All I have for a timing light is an old fashioned one that won't work. I need to buy an induction type one. I've read that a condenser will make it not start, but I can't locate it. I assume it's internal to the ignitor. > On 2006-04-03, TeGGeR® <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: >> Chuck <chuck@westmichigan.net> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > it to fail > starting. The 91 fuel injected Civic does not have an EGR system. > All I have for a timing light is an old fashioned one that > won't work. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > can't locate > it. I assume it's internal to the ignitor. This condenser (a.k.a. "noise suppressor") is supposed to be external on the 91 Civic. Yet I haven't found the one that's supposed to be on my own 91 Civic LX. Still, it's worth seeking. See http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html for some guidance on the subject. You floored the gas pedal, to see if it was flooding, right, per Tegger's site's directions, right? >> On 2006-04-03, TeGGeR® <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote: >>> Chuck <chuck@westmichigan.net> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > The 91 fuel injected Civic does not have an EGR system. It must be the high idle thingamagic them. The Haynes manual doesn't show what it is. >> All I have for a timing light is an old fashioned one that >> won't work. I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id5.html for some > guidance on the subject. I traced the wire and don't see mine either. I do see an empty stand-off for one though, but the wires it says to trace go into the distributor. > You floored the gas pedal, to see if it was flooding, right, > per Tegger's site's directions, right? I did this. Even let it set a month and tried it. > On 2006-04-03, Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > manual doesn't > show what it is. If you have the time, you might try the free online manual for the 91 Civic at www.autozone.com . It's often more detailed than the Haynes. Also, the 91 Civic CRX (or Concerto) factory service manual at http://www.honda.co.uk/car/owner/workshop.html might help, too. TDC is indicated by the stand-alone mark on the pulley. The three closer together are around 17 degrees or so B(efore)TDC. >>Have you checked ignition timing >> while cranking? Do you have the distributor somehow out of time 180 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > start or do anything. I hate to think what the odds are of the thing > jumping time *exactly* 180 degrees. It wouldn't, of course. But it might jump just enough to make the plugs fire too far down the power stroke. A suggestion, just to eliminate this as a possibility: Turn the engine by hand with a wrench so the middle of the three marks on the crank pulley is lined up with the timing belt cover. Now pull the cap off the distributor. Where's the rotor pointed? It ought to be pointed pretty much right at the #1 plug wire contact. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>Have you checked ignition timing >>> while cranking? Do you have the distributor somehow out of time 180 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the distributor. Where's the rotor pointed? It ought to be pointed > pretty much right at the #1 plug wire contact. Needless to say, you have to be at TDC COMPRESSION for this, so the valves would be closed. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>>Have you checked ignition timing >>>> while cranking? Do you have the distributor somehow out of time 180 [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Needless to say, you have to be at TDC COMPRESSION for this, so the valves > would be closed. I did this and everything checked out. At first I freaked out then remembered that I had to go around another turn. Is TDC the middle of the group of 3 marks or the one all by itself? Any fusible link or hidden goodie I should be aware of? > I did this and everything checked out. At first I freaked out then > remembered that I had to go around another turn. > > Is TDC the middle of the group of 3 marks or the one all by itself? The one all by itself is TDC. The group of three represents plug firing at idle with the service connector shorted. The middle one is the correct timing (16º BTDC). The two to either side are the extreme tolerances for idle timing (14º & 18º BTDC) . > Any fusible link or hidden goodie I should be aware of? Possibly the injector resistor. But if that were gone you'd expect the CEL to illuminate. SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I did this and everything checked out. At first I freaked out then >> remembered that I had to go around another turn. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Possibly the injector resistor. But if that were gone you'd expect the CEL > to illuminate. The book says that the Dual Point doesn't have a resistor. Here's something weird that may help solve the problem. I pull the plug off the upper injector to ohm test it and the motor attempted to start. It at least fires some but doesn't run. One injector reads 1.5 ohms and the other 8.6 ohms. Should I just replace the upper injector or try cleaning it? I'll probably just sell this thing cheap so I want to keep my costs down. What get me is that the thing wouldn't even attempt to start with starting fluid or gas manually dumped in it. > The book says that the Dual Point doesn't have a resistor. Which book? I though they all had resistors. > Here's something weird that may help solve the problem. I pull the > plug off the upper injector to ohm test it and the motor attempted to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What get me is that the thing wouldn't even attempt to start with > starting fluid or gas manually dumped in it. The upper injector is the cold-start injector, is it not? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> The book says that the Dual Point doesn't have a resistor. > > Which book? I though they all had resistors. Haynes. The illustration shows a resistor and says "multiport only". It shows the same harness plug that I have with the resistor next to it, but there's no resistor there on mine. >> Here's something weird that may help solve the problem. I pull the >> plug off the upper injector to ohm test it and the motor attempted to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The upper injector is the cold-start injector, is it not? > I have a 91 Civic Wagon that ran great but one day just wouldn't start > anymore. I have spark at all plugs. I've dumped gas into the throtle [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > blinks once when I turn the key to "on". I notice that the brake > indicator comes on when cranking. Any help will be greatly appreciated. And what color is the spark you see? Blue? White? deep yellow or orange? SignatureTeGGeR® The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I have a 91 Civic Wagon that ran great but one day just wouldn't start >> anymore. I have spark at all plugs. I've dumped gas into the throtle [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And what color is the spark you see? Blue? White? deep yellow or orange? It's a whiteish blue. The coil and cap have about 5000 miles on them. The old coil still worked, but was damaged by a bad cap. |
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