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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2006Kiss of death for GM and perhaps Ford
I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign made cars that cost about $15,000 per car. They are really small cars (aka economobiles). These are the companies that make the economobiles: Honda Fit Sport Hyundai Accent GLS Kia Rio5 SX Nissan Versa 1.8L Suzuki Reno Toyota Yaris S The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a Corvette Z06." The Honda Fit is now sold in 70 countries and is known in Europe as the Jazz. One of the reasons that Americans buy GM cars and Ford cars is because of their low prices compared to cars made by Honda and Toyota. Now that Honda and Toyota will be selling the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris at a cost of about $15,000 per car, it means those people that plan to buy a low priced new car in 2006 or 2007 will probably be buying a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris instead of a low priced Ford or Chevy. Do you agree? Do you agree that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford? Jason  SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford? > Jason I think Car and Driver wants to sell magazines. I don't know the shape of things to come in the consumer automotive market, but I doubt anything will cause a huge shift of buyers from any major brand to another. It seems to me most people have already made up their minds which brands of car they would buy and which they will not. I do recall that in the mid-70's one of the magazines (Road and Track, IIRC) track tested various cars and the Ford Pinto beat the Porsche 911's time through the slalom! Outraged readers wanted to know how the obvious error got through, so the editors explained: understeering cars have an edge over oversteering cars in the slalom, allowing the Pinto (shudder!) to beat the Porsche. I just don't think that is why more Pintos were sold than were 911s each year. Mike > > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The > > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Mike A major factor is brand loyalty regardless of that particular brand's performance over the years. There are simply folks that will NEVER buy a foreign car and then those on the other side of the fence that will never buy domestic tin. As far as "nails in the coffin" for any domestic manufacturer, one must consider the costs (high labor), government mandates (far too intrusive) and the public's response to sales campaigns. I for one am not caught up in the "gotta get a new car" syndrome. One of my daily drivers is over fifty years old while the other is almost twenty-five years of age and that is way modern 'nuff for this ol' fossil... JT > > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The > > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Mike MIke, You must be much younger than me. I remember the 1970's when there were lines of cars at every gasoline station. They even had to ration gasoline. It was the main reason the Jimmy Carter lost the election for a second term. The best selling cars (in the !970's) became the really small cars such as the Honda Civic and the Volkswagen Bug. If the cost of gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon, it will cause a shift to cars such as the Honda Fit and the Toyota Yaris. I doubt that GM and Ford will sell very many monster sized SUVs and Pickups if the gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > > > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The > > > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > monster sized SUVs and Pickups if the gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon. > Jason I can come up with several reasons Carter lost the election, all of which are based on his total incompetence. 1. Foreign Policy blunder #1: Returning the Panama Canal to Panama 2. Foreign Policy blunder #2: Inability to deal with the Iranian hostage crisis 3. Foreign Policy blunder #3: Failure to deal with the Lebanese civil war 4. Gutting the military (as evidence by the failure of the Iranian hostage rescue attempt) 5. Presiding over double digit inflation 6. The pardoning of Vietnam War deserters Worse, his incompetence carried forth in later years such as being the main architect of the North Korean nuclear issue (along with Richardson of New Mexico). Jimmy Carter, the Millard Fillmore of the 20th century... JT >The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit >Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a >Corvette Z06." Actually it was 6 mph faster than the next fastest car in the comparison and faster than the Corvette but we don't know by how much. Still a very impressive showing. As for being the kiss of death for GM and Ford, Gm and Ford never made any money off economy cars anyway. The kiss of death for GM and Ford is $3 gas which is killing their monster SUV sales. > >The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit > >Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > any money off economy cars anyway. The kiss of death for GM and Ford > is $3 gas which is killing their monster SUV sales. You are correct. I just re-read the sentence that you mentioned and it's clear that I left out some of the words from that sentence in my post--sorry. You made a great point related to gas prices in regard to monster SUV sales. It's my guess that GM and Ford will have a hard time selling the monster sized pickup trucks if the gas prices keep going higher. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford? > Jason Perhaps more telling was the Consumer Reports 2006 cars edition where CRs data indicates that an 8 yr old Toyota/Honda has the same number of problems as does a 3 year old Ford or GM product -- and a 2 yr old VW. The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for repairs. > The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That > would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for > repairs. I have been saying the GM should put up or shut up about it's much bragged about "quality improvements" with a much better warranty for a long time now. Reasonable people see the logic, Mike Hunter does not :). John > The only thing that can help GM is a 6 year bumper to bumper warranty. That > would get them a lot of sales. And probably bankrupt them paying for > repairs. You bet! I really chuckled over that one... JT I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing with the Suzuki Reno vs the Suzuki Forenza. The Forenza is the better choice. America isn't built like prehistoric Europe where there is barely enough room for foot traffic. People will buy the larger car for the same price or for a slightly higher price than the smaller version. It would appear that for every Toyota Echo that was sold there were 10 more Corollas that were sold. Can you see the pattern? Air- > I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy > the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > more Corollas that were sold. Can you see the pattern? > Air- Sorry, but the Fit costs less than a comparably equipped Civic. I don't know about the U.S., but there is definitely a market for the Fit here in Canada, where gas costs much more than in the U.S. even after you do the necessary conversions (metric to U.S., currency). The Toyota Echo actually sold quite well here, and the Yaris looks like it will be equally successful. So I have no doubt that the Fit will also do well here. > > I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy > > the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > sold quite well here, and the Yaris looks like it will be equally > successful. So I have no doubt that the Fit will also do well here. If the cost of gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon, it's my guess that the Honda Fit Sport, Toyota Yaris S and Suzuki Reno will be very successful. That's the main reason those types of cars are so popular in Europe--since gas prices are much higher in Europe than in America. SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. OK so the Fit is a little less. You still missed the point. Americans in general do not gravitate towards mini-compact cars. The situation is different in Canada. Yet In Canada people still buy big SUVs. Ever watched the TV show "Help you sell" based in Quebec Canada? They are driving an Explorer or a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Air- > > I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy > > the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > sold quite well here, and the Yaris looks like it will be equally > successful. So I have no doubt that the Fit will also do well here. > OK so the Fit is a little less. You still missed the point. No, I didn't miss the point. I was only pointing out that there is a market for those small cars in other places around the world. > Americans > in general do not gravitate towards mini-compact cars. The situation > is different in Canada. Yet In Canada people still buy big SUVs. Ever > watched the TV show "Help you sell" based in Quebec Canada? They are > driving an Explorer or a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Yes, people are still buying big SUV's here, but not in the large numbers of, say, 10 years ago. > OK so the Fit is a little less. You still missed the point. Americans > in general do not gravitate towards mini-compact cars. The situation [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Air- Hello, If the cost of gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon, the Honda Fit Sport, Toyota Yaris S. and the Suzuki Reno will become the best selling vehicles in America. Of course, lots of people that can afford it will continue to buy full sized pickups and SUVs. There are lots of people in America that can't afford to spend $50.00 or more per week for gasoline. I know several people that drive over 50 miles per day to and from work. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. If Gas rises to $4 a gallon the best selling cars in america would be the Prius and the Civic Hybrid. Including the cars that run off of compressed natural gas. Motorcycles would start picking up in sales in a way that the states would have never seen before. Sure the Fit and Nissan version would be top sellers too but the Prius would be one of the most desirable. Honda Insights would start selling for a lot of money used. O3- > > OK so the Fit is a little less. You still missed the point. Americans > > in general do not gravitate towards mini-compact cars. The situation [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > If Gas rises to $4 a gallon the best selling cars in america would be > the Prius and the Civic Hybrid. Including the cars that run off of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > > > > Air- Air- You are probably correct. Only time will tell. The smallest cars and hybrids made by all of the car companies will become their best selling cars if the cost of gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon. I would keep my Accord since I rarely drive it long distances. jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. <<<<Air- You are probably correct. Only time will tell. The smallest cars and hybrids made by all of the car companies will become their best selling cars if the cost of gasoline rises to $4.00 per gallon. I would keep my Accord since I rarely drive it long distances. jason >>>> And don't forget the Turbo Diesels offered by Volkwagen. 50mpg Highway is not bad at all for a diesel VW Jetta or Golf. The new Jeep Liberty Diesel is selling so fast that none of the dealerships can keep one on the show floor. I wouldn't be surprised if the 5 states that banned the new turbo diesels would lift the emmisions requirments in order to make the diesel alternative available to the public in California, New York, Massachusets, Vermont, and Maine. The advantage to the diesels is that they get better MPG on the Highway while the gas/electric hybrids get their best MPG in the stop and go. Now market a car that is a diesel/electric hybrid and now your talking! It's been on the drawing boards for years, just never actually done. Or who knows, like you said only time will tell. I've got a feeling those nuclear batteries are going to save us. O3- > <<<<Air- > You are probably correct. Only time will tell. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > O3- I have not read yet read about those nuclear batteries but will do so if an article appears about them in Car and Driver magazine or Popular Mechanics magazine--I subscribe to both of them. I have read a lot about the hydrogen fuel cells and it's obvious that it's a stupid idea. They are not cost effective. It takes huge amounts of energy to produce a fuel cell. I'm sure that someone will disagree with me. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > I have not read yet read about those nuclear batteries but will do so if > an article appears about them in Car and Driver magazine or Popular [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- Jason, For your information the Nuclear Batteries are only a concept that I was introduced by world renouned psychic "Sylvia Brown". She regularly appears on the Montel Williams show. The Nuclear Batteries are mearly an idea that was brought forth through "Metaphysics". Sylvia believes that at this very moment there are Aliens out there that have been observing us. Since the very begining. At some time in the future they will step in and introduce Nuclear Batteries for our motorized transportation as a replacement for the Internal Combustion engine. Since burning fossil fuels to survive becomes too problematic so much to say the least. Go check out the "Metaphisics" section at your local Barnes and Nobels or Borders book store. Sylvia Brown has a host of books that she's already sold hundreds of thousands of copies. Research it and take it for what it's worth. I personaly take most of her preaching as truth/prophecy. It only makes so much sense what she writes about. And deep down inside I know that what she brings forward to the public is the truth. O3- > > I have not read yet read about those nuclear batteries but will do so if > > an article appears about them in Car and Driver magazine or Popular [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > writes about. And deep down inside I know that what she brings forward > to the public is the truth. Hello, Thanks for the information. Now I understand why I have not seen any articles about the Nuclear Batteries in "Car and Driver" and "Popular Mechanics". I was shocked that there were no posts indicating that hydrogen fuel cells are the solution to all of the world's problems. Many liberals that hate oil and gas seem to believe that hydrogen fuel cells will take the place of gasoline in the years to come. Those people don't realize that lots of energy (such as from coal fueled power plants) needs to be used to produce hydrogen fuel cells. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >Hello, >Thanks for the information. Now I understand why I have not seen any articles [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >of energy (such as from coal fueled power plants) needs to be used to >produce hydrogen fuel cells. Most liberals I know think conservation is the most effective solution. After that, renewable sources such as solar and wind. They are pretty skeptical about hydrogen - even more so after Bush gave it a big endorsement. I don't think they are going to go for nuclear batteries ;-] > >Hello, > >Thanks for the information. Now I understand why I have not seen any articles [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > a big endorsement. I don't think they are going to go for nuclear > batteries ;-] I agree. The liberals in both houses of Congress would NEVER allow nuclear batteries to be produced. Perhaps they should use a different name for them such as "green battery" or "Enviromental Battery". That's why they use terms like "No Child Left Behind" on the bills. They knew that no one would vote against a bill entitled, "No Child Left Behind" even if it was a stupid bill. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> >Hello, >> >Thanks for the information. Now I understand why I have not seen any [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >even if it was a stupid bill. >Jason I assume you mean politicians not liberals use terms like "No Child Left Behind" on the bills. That term is a Bush initiative. Some other gems from Bush/GOP: The Clear Skies Initiative allows coal plants to delay installation of emissions control equipment. The Patriot Act allows government to spy on you. The Healthy Forest Initiative allows more logging. > >> >Hello, > >> >Thanks for the information. Now I understand why I have not seen any [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > The Healthy Forest Initiative allows more logging. The Republicans and Democrats--liberal or conservative--use that trick. SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. U R 2 Funny :-) >>I have not read yet read about those nuclear batteries but will do so if >>an article appears about them in Car and Driver magazine or Popular [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > O3- SignaturePC Paul 89 PC800 77 R100RS Trip pics at: http://photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart "To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt OK so the Fit is a little less. You still missed the point. Americans in general do not gravitate towards mini-compact cars. The situation is different in Canada. Yet In Canada people still buy big SUVs. Ever watched the TV show "Help you sell" based in Quebec Canada? They are driving an Explorer or a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Air- > > I don't see much of a market for the Honda Fit. Most people would buy > > the civic instead which offers so much more for less money. Same thing [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > sold quite well here, and the Yaris looks like it will be equally > successful. So I have no doubt that the Fit will also do well here. I would buy a GM or Ford car if they had any kind of reliability, I don't mind spending the extra on the domestic brands, what I do mind is sticking a bunch of money in it, just after the warranty expires.I think the bidy styles are better looking than the foreign cars. Tom > I have a copy of the May 2006 issue of Car and Driver (magazine). The > magazine has an excellent article beginning on page 58 related 6 foreign [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > that this could be the final nail in the coffin for GM and perhaps Ford? > Jason >The car that came in first place in the comparison test was the Honda Fit >Sport. It actully "sailed through the lane change test 6 mph faster than a >Corvette Z06." Must have been the speed bumps. J. |
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