>I can start to notice a slight degradation in the ac. How often does the AC
>need to be recharged. I can't find anything in the manual about scheduling
>recharges. I have a 2001 Accord EX.
>>I can start to notice a slight degradation in the ac. How often does the AC
>>need to be recharged. I can't find anything in the manual about scheduling
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Mike
but it was a great business opportunity! from what i understand, r-12
was out of patent, made by many companies and competitively priced.
r-134a otoh...
Michael Pardee says...
> In the R-12 days you could do almost everything
> yourself, but R-134a is a very diffferent beast. I don't
> know why, but I had no trouble recharging R-12 systems
> and failed miserably the time I tried to recharge an
> R-134a system.
I have a 94 Accord, which I think was the first year of
134a. It isn't so cool now, and cycles frequently. I was
planning to get a can of 134a at Wal-Mart, and the
connector/hose, and just charge that into the low side like
I used to do with R12 systems. Are you saying that doesn't
work? If so, I sure would like to find out why.
> Worse, regulations have made the overhead very high for
> professionals. That means you can expect to part with
> most of $100 US for a check-up, which involves emptying
> the system by filtering and capturing the refrigerant
> then refilling with the measured amount of R-134a.
If you're saying they have to evacuate all the old
refrigerant, and add back the correct amount, rather than
just adding more in the first place, I wonder if this is
"regulations" or just the standard repair scam bullshit.
I sure would like to get an explanation, in scientific
terms, of why you can't just add a little 134a. Do pressure
gauges not work with 134a? Do they not tell you whether the
charge is correct?
Michael Pardee - 13 Apr 2006 23:36 GMT
> Michael Pardee says...
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> gauges not work with 134a? Do they not tell you whether the
> charge is correct?
I don't know why it is so, but even with plenty of experience with R-12 and
a guage and thermometer I was unable to find the correct charge for my son's
Acura. It turned out the correct charge was about half the bottle. When we
were done I could hear liquid drops hitting the compressor so I told him to
leave it off until he got it done right. I didn't want to ruin his
compressor.
We added gas slowly and I watched the pressure and vent temperature, but it
never was anywhere near correct until it was done by weight. I can only
guess the lag time in the system is very long compared to the half minute or
so it takes R-12 to stabilize. A friend who went into refrigeration before
he moved away told me that with R-134a the condensor pressure is more
critical than it is with R-12... that may be why it can't be done by ear any
more. If the condensor has to stabilize to evaluate the state of charge it
could take hours to do it "by ear." But that's only a guess to explain my
failure.
Mike
Peabody - 14 Apr 2006 17:11 GMT
Michael Pardee says...
> I don't know why it is so, but even with plenty of
> experience with R-12 and a guage and thermometer I was
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> compressor so I told him to leave it off until he got it
> done right. I didn't want to ruin his compressor.
> We added gas slowly and I watched the pressure and vent
> temperature, but it never was anywhere near correct
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> it "by ear." But that's only a guess to explain my
> failure.
Thanks. But I still think we need to find an authoritative
technical explanation.
Michael Pardee - 15 Apr 2006 00:48 GMT
> Michael Pardee says...
<snip>
> Thanks. But I still think we need to find an authoritative
> technical explanation.
Please let us know what you find. It's always good to know these things.
Mike
mpwilliams - 14 Apr 2006 04:23 GMT
> Michael Pardee says...
[snip]
> If you're saying they have to evacuate all the old
> refrigerant, and add back the correct amount, rather than
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> gauges not work with 134a? Do they not tell you whether the
> charge is correct?
A can of R-134a contains both refrigerant and lubricating oil, and I have
read that the practice of charging without purging can, over time, result in
significant accumulations of excess oil, giving rise to unusually high
operating pressure and leading to premature seal failure.
news.easynews.com - 18 Apr 2006 18:29 GMT
> A can of R-134a contains both refrigerant and lubricating oil, and I have
> read that the practice of charging without purging can, over time, result
> in significant accumulations of excess oil, giving rise to unusually high
> operating pressure and leading to premature seal failure.
$920 later I just found this out. I had a small leak that only happened when
the unit wasnt used for a week or more. I added oil and a recharge can of
134a and my compressor locked up a month later. Was real cold for a month
though! Mechanic told me the same thing, too much oil and shouldnt be done
by shadetree mechanics wiythout meters.
Michael Pardee - 19 Apr 2006 01:08 GMT
>> A can of R-134a contains both refrigerant and lubricating oil, and I have
>> read that the practice of charging without purging can, over time, result
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> month though! Mechanic told me the same thing, too much oil and shouldnt
> be done by shadetree mechanics wiythout meters.
Ow! That lesson was a dear one! I do know that overcharging any A/C sysem
will cause liquid to overflow the evaporator and "slug" the compressor. Very
bad news.
Mike