I forgive you!!

Higher gas prices in foreign countries reflect high taxes to support
social programs whereas the lower prices indicate government subsidies
to domestic consumer(s).

A more interesting (or telling) figure is the amount that it takes to
extract a barrel of crude from the ground which is ridiculously low in
the mid east. Extraction from the Alberta tar sands is somewhat higher
as is that of the deep offshore wells.

Finally, comparing US prices to those of other countries is one of
apples and oranges. We are not them and they are not us...

JT

The point is, Honda must use the EPA figures. They have no choice.

Consumer Reports knows this. Their test was designed to be extreme and
it provides valuable information about just how far off the EPA
figures can be.

The reporter who used the CR information seemed to be trying to make a
case that Honda was concealing information about real-world fuel
consumption by using the EPA estimates as part of a marketing
strategy. I do not think that case can be made. Honda may be pleased
the EPA estimates are so high for their cars, but pleased or not, they
are required by law to report them.

I'm done.

Elliot Richmond
Itinerant Curmudgeon

Not at all. For example, creeping in stop and go traffic (in any car) may
get you less than 1/4 the EPA rating for city driving. A while back I saw a
link to an article about early Prius cars being used in city police
applications. The patrolmen were incensed that the cars reported thay got as
little as 15 mpg, but the article pointed out they were run all day and were
racking up less than 10 miles. When on traffic duty there was a whole lot of
idle time. It's likely their previous cars were getting less than 5 mpg but
they never noticed.

Assuming the industry swings toward more efficient cars the gap will only
widen. Only part of the fuel we burn goes toward getting us from one place
to another, and if the remainder stays the same while the genuine mpg
improves the anguished cries will get louder. After all, if your house were
run on gasoline instead of electricity and natural gas, how many mpg would
your house get? Zero.

Mike

Could you post 'but 46%' a few more times, i think the really slow,
stupid people at the back haven't yet realised you've read thew news
story and haven't actually understood what its NOT saying.

EPa - government mandated test whos results MUST be reported. no
choice, no options int he matter, and the test isn't done by honda. So
i can hardly see how the car company is covering anything up.
Government does the test, government makes them report the results, I
don't see anything there a person with the intelect of a cabbage
couldn't follow there, so maybe you'll understandnow

Secondly, whilst the EPA test methods are well known, I've not seen
the conditions for the CR test reported. Sooo, lets say they've got a
500lb driver, carrying 3 paving stones in the back, its a manual car
(we'll be nice) and he revs the bollocks off it at lights, lots of
wheel spin as he drops the clutch, uses the accelerator, right up
until the last second, then slams ont he brakes, ravving the engine as
he does so in neutral. , oh, and he keeps it irevving as pfast as
possible. all this on underinflated tyres, and in a busy tailback of
stop+go traffic. Thats the CR test, and to be honest, 26mpg is f-ing
amazing in those conditions.

Of course, to some people, trying to explain things like this is like
trying to explain to a brick what orange smells like. I have a feling
you're one of those.

First, quit top posting.

Second.

Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:

               
                CR        EPA        %Diff
Civic EX manual    22        30        -27
Civic EX auto        18        30        -40
Civic Hybrid auto    26        49        -47
Jetta diesel auto    24        35        -30
Jetta gas auto        17        22        -23
Impreza auto        16        23        -32

                CR        EPA        %Diff
Civic EX manual    40        38        + 5
Civic EX auto        43        40        + 8
Civic Hybrid auto    47        51        -  8
Jetta diesel auto    46        42        +10
Jetta gas auto        33        30        +10
Impreza auto        30        28        + 7

So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

Conclusion:

So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.

OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

Why do people defend the auto industry that has ripped them off for years?

And crappy modern gas yields less in the way of mileage.

But stand by...  My 1983 Civic FE project is about to go on the road
later this week. (The car is finished but I'm waiting for a set of
165x80x15 tires).  *That* car reportedly was in the range of 42 mpg city
and 54 mpg highway.  I expect 10-15% less based on the cars mileage
(110K) and the effects of modern fuels.

I should be posting some results in a week or so.

JT

I had 2 CRX HF's.  The 1st was bought new & averaged 50MPG over 50,000
Miles.
The 2nd was used, & averaged 45MPG.

Currently driving a 94 Civic VX.  43+MPG over 23,000 Miles.  All cars
were equipped
with A/C & Cruise control.

46 perceent is a lot of variables.

It's average mpg over the last 2210 miles of driving which includes both
city and highway driving (probably a 35%/65% split between the two).

Eric