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Car Forum / Honda Cars / August 200692 Civic losing coolant and overheating
I just bought a 92 Civic 1.5L with 193,000 miles. It runs great when the coolant level is full. However, after driving for about 30-40 miles, it loses enough coolant to cause the engine to overheat. There is very slight evidence of white smoke exhaust, although it almost undetectable. When I start it, there is the smell of coolant that comes through the vents. I've replaced the thermostat, ECT sensor that goes to the fan, upper and lower radiator hoses, and the radiator is new. Does this indicate that I have a small crack somewhere in the cylinder head? I've always thought that a malfunction in the cylinder head would render an engine almost useless and since the engine is strong (when not overheating), I assumed the problem was somewhere else. If it is the cylinder head, which is the best route to take in purchasing a new head: brand new or remanufactured? Thanks. Paul > I just bought a 92 Civic 1.5L with 193,000 miles. It runs great when > the coolant level is full. However, after driving for about 30-40 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > else. If it is the cylinder head, which is the best route to take in > purchasing a new head: brand new or remanufactured? Thanks. Paul head gasket. several threads on this in the last couple of weeks. A head gasket failure is more likely. The group seems to be getting a lot of such failures due to the heat wave. Though in this case, the person who sold you the car might have known... Repair will cost around $500 to $1000 at a shop. Do not drive the car. If it overheats too much, the cost of the repair will rise. >I just bought a 92 Civic 1.5L with 193,000 miles. It runs >great when [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the cylinder > head would render an engine almost useless No, it just leaks either coolant into the cylinders or oil into the cooling system, or both. Thus you can also check the appearance of the coolant (any oil in it?) and oil (is it looking thick, like Wendy's Frosty consistency?). > and since the engine is > strong (when not overheating), I assumed the problem was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > purchasing a new head: brand new or remanufactured? > Thanks. Paul I will tell a friend of mine.. he was looking into buy that car sometime next month.. thanks for the info.. 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The other 3 cylinders read significantly lower, closer to 190. (This could be because I failed to notice that the adapter that came w/ my compression gauge got left behind in cyl #4, so the remaining 3 cyls' didn't seal tight enough, leading to lower readings--the adapter is still in #4. It's too hot outside for me, apparently.) Ok, what stood out most to me was that while performing the final 3 tests, coolant sprayed out of #4. What does this indicate? Thanks again. Paul > I will tell a friend of mine.. he was looking into buy that car > sometime next month.. thanks for the info.. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > > purchasing a new head: brand new or remanufactured? > > > Thanks. Paul Coolant should not spray out of any cylinder. Your 92 Civic has a breach of the cooling system, permitting coolant to cross an engine head gasket, head, or block boundary and get into the cylinders. Head gasket failure is far more likely than a head or block failure. You could, if you felt like it, redo the test, carefully this time, and mostly for your own and the group's edification :-), and see if the difference between the three cylinders and cyl #4 is still there. When performing a compression test to help verify a head gasket failure, I understand the biggest concern is a discrepancy between cylinder pressures. I can't locate online the specs for the 92 Civic, but for the c. 1990 CRX, Concerto, and Prelude, and 1995-1997 Civic, normal pressure is from171 to 185 psi (depending on the exact engine), minimum is 135 psi for all, and there should not be a difference of more than 28 psi between cylinders. That your pressures seem so high does not seem to me to be a concern. It's when they're really low and/or uneven that there are concerns. A satisfactory compression test does not mean the car is free of a blown head gasket. Having the cooling system pressurized and its chemistry checked (for exhaust gas products) are the better tests for a blown head gasket. Google has a lot of discussion on this. If you're doing compression tests, you're way smart enough to identify key words like {"compression test" "head gasket"} and search for them. Many hits come up to help the average Joe or Jane with his/her car. > Thanks for the responses. I did a cyl compression test > today. [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] >> > > purchasing a new head: brand new or remanufactured? >> > > Thanks. Paul > Coolant should not spray out of any cylinder. Your 92 Civic has a breach > of the cooling system, permitting coolant to cross an engine head gasket, > head, or block boundary and get into the cylinders. Head gasket failure is > far more likely than a head or block failure. I'm guessing there is a warp of the head in conjunction with the bad gasket, but the fix is basically the same either way: the head has to come off, be checked and/or milled for flatness, and a new head gasket has to be fitted. As Elle indicates, it is not just a possibility any more. The spraying of coolant out one cylinder when another is pressurized is a positive indication. Mike >> Coolant should not spray out of any cylinder. Your 92 Civic has a breach >> of the cooling system, permitting coolant to cross an engine head gasket, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but the fix is basically the same either way: the head has to come off, be > checked and/or milled for flatness, my position on head recovery is that if you have the luxury of doing the job yourself, you get to choose what happens as a repair route. milling it is not necessarily a good thing, and in my experience*, is sometimes downright destructive for an aluminum head. the #1 thing is to *CHECK* the head. if flat, re-use as-is [after cleaning up of course]. if *slightly* warped, also check the block. if the two are "warped in sympathy", do not mill the head! or at least, not if they're both within the same ballpark of each other. flatness is easy to check with a metal spirit level as a straight edge and feeler gauges to measure any distortion. * aluminum castings like this gouge easily. depending on the milling [skimming] operation and the tool used, a cutting edge can pick up a piece of material in the casting, but instead of slicing through it, push it all the way along the surface plowing out an increasingly deep furrow as it goes. and these things can be real deep too. [no gasket is going to seal for very long after that.] the cutting operation needs to be high quality and appropriate to the material, leaving it with a fine smooth surface. myth about "heads need a little roughness to 'bite' the gasket" are utter bunk. d.i.y. head finishing operations can be done with a block of 6"x4" [or larger depending on your hand size] x3/4" plate glass scrap and wet & dry paper. remarkable flatness can be achieved with a little patience and a well distributed polishing pattern. scrub thoroughly [with a scrubbing brush] with plenty of soapy water at least twice to remove all traces of silicon carbide afterwards. > and a new head gasket has to be fitted. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mike > Thanks for the responses. I did a cyl compression test today. > Starting w/ cyl #4, I read a compression of about 225. The other 3 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > me was that while performing the final 3 tests, coolant sprayed out of > #4. What does this indicate? what does it indicate? it indicates that your planet earth is about to collide with your sun. the party's over. the cops are knocking on the door and are just about to shoot the lock off. the microwave doesn't work. your girlfriend has left you for a quebecois waiter named marcel. and you need a new head gasket. google rec.autos.makers.honda for a thread titled "Proper Radiator Cap Pressure Rating for 1994 Honda Accord EX?" > Thanks again. Paul Ok, what stood out most to > me was that while performing the final 3 tests, coolant sprayed out of > #4. What does this indicate? Thanks again. Paul That indicates you found the problem. Bad head gasket. MK Hello All > I will tell a friend of mine.. he was looking into buy that car > sometime next month.. thanks for the info.. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > > purchasing a new head: brand new or remanufactured? > > > Thanks. Paul |
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