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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2006I think my Honda dealer lied about my Fit
In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why it was so much over list and was told that there weren't many and that they could deliver the car and other dealers couldn't. I went to another nearby dealer and was surprised that I could order it at list, so with tax the whole thing came to just about $18,000, $2300 cheaper. I posted at the time a thread called "Will My Fit Arrive" because I was unsure. My salesperson, Mazen, gave me a card with someone else's name but wrote his name and number, so I guess he was new. Three weeks later I went to check on the car, and he was no longer working there but I was assured that the car was on order and should be in in a few weeks. I even added the choice of Silver instead of Orange because they said the Orange one was very difficult. At some point I started another thread, "My Fit NOT Arriving" and accused the dealer of bait and switch, and Elmo, properly, castigated me for being inaccurate. He was correct, I think they just had no intention of selling me the car at that price and if I bought another one, that is ok with them. But I think what happened was that Mazen did something that he shouldn't have done and they weren't going to fill the order. Yesterday I called Honda USA. They told me that 9 weeks was a long time to wait and that Paragon Honda had only one order for a Sports Fit outstanding, and it was Black and much more recent. There is no evidence that the car was ever ordered. Now I don't know if HUSA is accurate but it would seem that they would know what is being ordered. At this point I'm cancelling the order and I'm curious as to what you folks think about this chain of events. > In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current > Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > know what is being ordered. At this point I'm cancelling the order and > I'm curious as to what you folks think about this chain of events. Car dealers like real estate agents, doctors, lawyers and politicians are all bottom feeders having little in the way of ethics... JT >> In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current >> Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >JT Too general. In most things there are good and bad. My doctor is a dedicated guy who is simply one of the best people I know. I work for a public defender office and the lawyers here are also very good people, working for less than they could get elsewhere. My aunt was a real estate person and did her best to sell houses fairly, without regard to racial steering or other crap. There are also decent politicians who really care about the public good, but they get corrupted by money pretty quickly. There are probably also decent car dealers but I haven't found one yet. > There are probably also decent car dealers but I haven't > found one > yet. I think the decent ones for one thing will be found among those who deal online. We're getting some reports here of positive, price-competitive experiences using this approach. Not all, but more than if one shows up at the dealership proper. We had a similar situation - and the dealer wanted to add $500 'theft-proof wheels' because the FIT wheels were such a high-risk item (though few were/are on the road). We let our fingers do the walking, and found a car in the desired color and trim at MSRP (even got the IPOD connection thrown in) a reasonable distance from home. We were treated okay, though the 'closer' wanted us to buy the long warranty at an inflated price. My point is that the telephone is your friend... it's far better than online, because on the phone you can get a salesperson to actively help you. Online you just get in queue. Good luck! >In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current >Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why >it was so much over list and was told that there weren't many and that ... More information. I just found out (from talking to the general manager of the dealership) that usually cars are not ordered directly. Mostly they "look" for them by seeing what is coming in to them and other dealers and trading around. It seems an odd way to do things in the computer age but this way cars are available for immediate purchase. It sort of makes sense. But if you want a car that isn't available that way, you would think they would just place an order with the factory. This would explain why Honda-US doesn't have any orders for my car from the dealer. It also explains why I don't have a car. > In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current > Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I went to another nearby dealer and was surprised that I could order > it at list, dude, you are SO naive. of COURSE he's going to tell you that. At least that way, he has a chance of your changing your mind to a different color. Worst case, he's no worse off--he doesn't sell you a car. you are SO naive. Go away. > > In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current > > Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Go away. <chuckle> What the masses of sheeple don't realize, survival is the first instinct of virtually all animals including humans. Hence, lying mixed with an ample dose of cheating serve as everyday tools for the dominators. Ol' PT Barnum was right except that I think that there's more than one sucker born every minute these days... <G> JT >> In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current >> Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Go away. But didn't you say that calling it bait and switch was wrong? If he knew he couldn't get it and wanted to offer me something else, that is bait and switch, no? I'm curious about the way the dealer "find" system works though. Do the dealers pay over the "dealer cost" to get a popular car from another dealer? As for the "find" technique, I have found that dealers simply trade comparable cars. When I ordered my Odyssey Touring, all my favorite dealer had on the lot were some EX-Ls, so they called another nearby dealer and traded a hybrid Accord and a hybrid Civic for it....it was originally going to be a Ridgeline, but the 2nd dealer got a shipment in later that day. So essentially, it's just a matter of which dealer needs more of what, then they work out a deal to get it to their customers. However, with a seemingly rare car like the Fit is now, I'd think that there wouldn't be many dealers willing to give it up... But that's just my thoughts. > In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current > Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > $2300 cheaper. I posted at the time a thread called "Will My Fit > Arrive" because I was unsure. I have seen Civic LXs sedan at 17,500 on the lot at my dealer. Why a Fit at almost the same price -- and you might be able to deal the Civic down. At 19k you are getting close the price for an Accord LX I4 with a 5 spd. > My salesperson, Mazen, gave me a card with someone else's name but > wrote his name and number, so I guess he was new. Three weeks later I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > know what is being ordered. At this point I'm cancelling the order and > I'm curious as to what you folks think about this chain of events. >I have seen Civic LXs sedan at 17,500 on the lot at my dealer. Why a Fit at >almost the same price -- and you might be able to deal the Civic down. At >19k you are getting close the price for an Accord LX I4 with a 5 spd. Because I want two things out of this car. One is to be able to throw a bike into the back without needing to get the bike rack. The second is to have a long roof for a 9 1/2 foot surfboard. The Fit is better than the Civic in both ways. I rarely need to carry five adults and there really is nothing that the Civic has that the Fit doesn't that I care about. Well, not quite right. I assume the Civic has a dead pedal. That's a serious problem with the Fit. Well, history anyway now. My 91 Accord is currently undergoing timing belt (and waterpump) surgery so I'll keep it for another year or two. > Well, not quite right. I assume the Civic has a dead pedal. That's a > serious problem with the Fit. Well, history anyway now. My 91 Accord For me no deal pedal is a huge selling point. > >I have seen Civic LXs sedan at 17,500 on the lot at my dealer. Why a Fit at > >almost the same price -- and you might be able to deal the Civic down. At [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > is currently undergoing timing belt (and waterpump) surgery so I'll > keep it for another year or two. Sounds like an Element is more what you are looking for. More money of course, but not that much more. > >I have seen Civic LXs sedan at 17,500 on the lot at my dealer. Why a Fit at > >almost the same price -- and you might be able to deal the Civic down. At [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > is currently undergoing timing belt (and waterpump) surgery so I'll > keep it for another year or two. Suzuki is coming out with CX-4. Same money as Fit but more room and awd. Check out the preview on roadandtrack.com > Suzuki is coming out with CX-4. Same money as Fit but more room and > awd. 23/28 mpg? Big freaking deal! I have a 94 Lexus ES with 168,000 miles on it, and--using Shell 93 octane--I get 24mpg city and 29mpg highway. We are not amused. >>Suzuki is coming out with CX-4. Same money as Fit but more room and >>awd. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > We are not amused. Heck, my carb'd '87 Accord gets 28mpg city! > >>Suzuki is coming out with CX-4. Same money as Fit but more room and > >>awd. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > We are not amused. I am. Probably they got gearing right. Huge selling point for me. Civic Si I'm considering is no better gas guzzling wise. That's acceptable for me. Many more cars do much worse. >> >>Suzuki is coming out with CX-4. Same money as Fit but more room and >> >>awd. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >is no better gas guzzling wise. That's acceptable for me. Many more >cars do much worse. The funny thing is that I'm not overly concerned with mpg that much; I only drive 5-6k/year. I really wanted the Fit because it was a cheap way to get a reliable new car with the space that I want. So I keep the 91 Accord another year or two. I just spent $1000 to do the timing belt and take care of the oil in the sparkplugs. Essentially it was the Honda 90k service plus a little more. It took $80 at the cheap muffler place to take care of that, and for another $300 or so I can likely fix all the other annoyances that have crept up over time. All except the rust. And maybe in a year or two I can pick up a nice used Fit. snipped tale of woe No contract, no lie. >snipped tale of woe > >No contract, no lie. Well there was a contract. I signed and put down $1000. No car showed up. > >snipped tale of woe > > > >No contract, no lie. > > Well there was a contract. I signed and put down $1000. No car showed > up. Why won't you just order what you need on carsdirect.com or likes of such if you can't deal with the dealers? I think the whole purpose of sites like that is to help people like you get what you want. What is the point of this thread? > In early July I decided I wanted an Orange Fit, and went to my current > Honda dealer who quoted $19,000 without tax (Sport Model). I asked why [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > know what is being ordered. At this point I'm cancelling the order and > I'm curious as to what you folks think about this chain of events. -- Tp, -------- __o ----- -\<. -------- __o --- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<. -------------------- ( )/ ( ) ----------------------------------------- No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... >What is the point of this thread? Just a forum for the original poster to whine and complain. Must think someone really cares.... On 9/30/2006 2:08 PM Bob spake these words of knowledge: >>What is the point of this thread? >> > Just a forum for the original poster to whine and complain. Must > think someone really cares.... What a noob! What a maroon! Imagine this chump thinking that anyone in a forum about for people who buy and use Honda automobiles would care how Honda automobile dealers are treating Honda automobile buyers - or potential buyers, at any rate. This guy is priceless! What a rube! RFT!!! Dave Kelsen  SignatureI don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce. >On 9/30/2006 2:08 PM Bob spake these words of knowledge: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >RFT!!! >Dave Kelsen Hey Dave, Tell me how you really feel.... That aside, the OP has continually whimpered about his problems...while only providing HIS perspective. Since you appear to know the other side, please present it in a concise manner...and try not to use seventh grade taunts. It should be interesting. >>On 9/30/2006 2:08 PM Bob spake these words of knowledge: >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >know the other side, please present it in a concise manner...and try >not to use seventh grade taunts. It should be interesting. I figured that I would explain what happened and see what other people had to say; hopefully someone else buying a Fit. My experience with car dealers is virtually nil since I tend to buy used cars. I'm not sure what OTHER perspective there might be; I ordered a car and put down a deposit, the car was never delivered. And I suspected from the start that it wouldn't be. I spoke to the general manager of the dealership; he apologized for failing to get the car, and my credit card has been credited for the deposit. I spent today at the junkyards in Willets Point, next to Shea Stadium, having a number of issues attended to on my old Accord. I still have a few, notably some sort of water leak in one of the tail lights, but except for that and maybe upgrading the radio, I've taken care of the outstanding problems. I think the next time I post to the newgroup it will be to ask questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. It looks like I'll be keeping it for a while longer. And I really do like the car. > I figured that I would explain what happened and see what other people > had to say; hopefully someone else buying a Fit. My experience with [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > failing to get the car, and my credit card has been credited for the > deposit. When you spoke to Honda, did you let them know the dealershp took your deposit? Curious if they ever followed up with the dealership to find out why they never ordered one for you. > I spent today at the junkyards in Willets Point, next to Shea Stadium, > having a number of issues attended to on my old Accord. I still have a > few, notably some sort of water leak in one of the tail lights, but > except for that and maybe upgrading the radio, I've taken care of the > outstanding problems. For the tail lights, did you check/change the seals/gaskets around the tail lights? > I think the next time I post to the newgroup it will be to ask > questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. It looks like > I'll be keeping it for a while longer. And I really do like the car. At least no car payments to worry about. -Dave >> I figured that I would explain what happened and see what other people >> had to say; hopefully someone else buying a Fit. My experience with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >deposit? Curious if they ever followed up with the dealership to find out >why they never ordered one for you. I did mention that. But apparently ordering cars is not done very often with Honda. They just look around for what comes in. >> I spent today at the junkyards in Willets Point, next to Shea Stadium, >> having a number of issues attended to on my old Accord. I still have a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >For the tail lights, did you check/change the seals/gaskets around the tail >lights? I'm reasonably sure that's the problem. I'm going to work on it this week. >> I think the next time I post to the newgroup it will be to ask >> questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. It looks like >> I'll be keeping it for a while longer. And I really do like the car. > >At least no car payments to worry about. I had planned on paying cash. I don't think they really like that; I think they like the financing system. > I had planned on paying cash. I don't think they really like that; I > think they like the financing system. Yeah - which is why I don't discuss financing numbers and monthly payments/terms until the price of the car is finalized. > I think the next time I post to the newgroup it will be to > ask > questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. FWIW, I think this thread you started will be helpful to others. Plus it most certainly is on topic. Keep 'em coming. dgk, First off I want you to know, I am not condoning or defending such dealer behavior, as you have experienced. BUT: ANYTIME you are trying to procure a "hot selling" car (or what ever), unless you plan to pay a premium for it, your order will continue to slide down the list. As long as someone with a better offer steps up before your time. A personal anecdote: My aunt and uncle waited 120 days to pay MSRP on a 1980 Accord, and my cousin worked at the dealer. Why did they wait so long? Because people were lined up around the block to pay over MSRP. Their "good guy" referral, from my cousin, got them the privilege of MSRP, but they had to wait. Supply and demand.... it's as simple as that. > >>On 9/30/2006 2:08 PM Bob spake these words of knowledge: > >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > questions about how to fix something on a 91 Accord. It looks like > I'll be keeping it for a while longer. And I really do like the car. -- Tp, -------- __o ----- -\<. -------- __o --- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<. -------------------- ( )/ ( ) ----------------------------------------- No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... > dgk, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you plan to pay a premium for it, your order will continue to slide down the > list. As long as someone with a better offer steps up before your time. [snip] Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his money down, ordered "his" car and, when it arrived, the dealer apparently turned around and sold it off to the highest and best bidder. THAT is a problem. If the dealership wants to maximize their profit, I have no problem with that however the time to set the price is when the contract is signed. If they didn't want to sell it for that price, they should not have entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx." > Supply and demand.... it's as simple as that. Sure! On a sale right off the lot. Once you take my money you don't change the rules of the game while the ball's in play. You may try but it will cost you to do so. We had a similar situation in Oct03 when the new Prius came out. Buyers were stacked around every dealership, and the "dealer added markup" number just grew and grew. My local dealer finally made it a sort of auction, in which money talked, not deposit date. In late '03, some green-conscious buyers saw the desired color and features arriving and paid up to an incredible + $7,000. In '04 the wait list grew to 6-8 months! The dealers simply said "supply and demand", and they're right unless there's a "real" contract in place, with consideration and specific terms. If there's a contract that says "THIS AGREEMENT GUARANTEES YOUR OPTION TO PURCHASE THE NEXT FIT SPORT AUTOTRANS IN COLOR XXXX TO ARRIVE AT THIS DEALERSHIP, PURCHASE PRICE TO BE MSRP PLUS ADDED DEALER MARKUP OF $YYYY, SUCH OPTION TO BE EXECUTED WITHIN 24 HOURS OF NOTICE OF VEHICLE ARRIVAL", or somesuch, the "deposit" may guarantee nothing more than to be placed on an auction list. In late '03 we let our fingers do the walking, and bought precisely the Prius we wanted for MSRP (pinstriping, a few other things, at no added cost!) at a dealership in a rural community 1500 miles away (suspicious of that lektrik stuff), then paid $800 to have it transported. For two years I could have sold it for the price we paid! In August my daughter bought her FIT and got precisely what she wanted. It took an hour of phone calls to find a dealer less than two hours' drive - selling at MSRP, and with a free IPOD hookup. She had worked hard and saved, so paid cash for her first new car. What a day!! We made it a family outing, and I rode back in her car part of the way. At her age I don't get that much quality time - and her joy was boundless. A super ride, a terrific car, and at the end of the day there was none of that feeling that we were taken advantage of. TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!) willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her hip pocket in case another buyer falls through. Otherwise, that sale might go to some other salesman's buyer who's "on the list". You could become the original buyer's "brother-in-law". In the days when there was a 6-month wait for the Prius, I've helped many people do just that! Ike > TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!) > willing to work with you, somewhere. Call/visit many dealerships. When > you call a dealership, talk turkey to a salesman directly and do NOT get > put on a dealership list. Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. That > salesman is interested in a commission, and may put your name in his/her > hip pocket in case another buyer falls through. Or, in case that salesman wins a contest like what Honda had a few years ago when Odysseys were ultra-hot: the winner gets an extra allocation, completely outside the dealership allocation, to be used as he sees fit for his customers. > > TACTIC ON HIGH-DEMAND CARS: there's a salesman (forget the dealership!) > > willing to work with you, somewhere... Offer the salesman a quiet extra $100. Yes. I'm not in the business anymore and don't see myself going back to it, but I'd urge anyone buying new to slip some extra cash to the salesman. >From the dealership where I worked, I got the grand commission of $16 when someone bought a new Odyssey. I'm glad I worked there a while because I learned a lot and I've become enthusiastic about Honda, but the sales work was de-motivating and I couldn't make ends meet. > Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a > purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > entered into the contract with the guy. Simply tell him: "You want the > FIT? It'll cost you $xx,xxxx." If the contract doesn't specify a delivery date, then there's no problem with what the dealer did. The dealer is merely taking advantage of the fact that there's no delivery date specified. The dealer can deliver on the dealer's time schedule--which maximizes the dealer's profit. Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the contract itself. >> Key phrase here is "before your time." When you contract to make a >> purchase and the dealer to make a sale, it changes things. He paid his [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Shame on the buyer for not specifying a delivery timeframe in the >contract itself. Means nothing if there's no penalty. So the delivery date passes. Now what? I get my deposit back. All true statements, it's just the way it works. > > dgk, > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > change the rules of the game while the ball's in play. You may try but > it will cost you to do so. -- Tp, -------- __o ----- -\<. -------- __o --- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<. -------------------- ( )/ ( ) ----------------------------------------- No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... When I was at an auto show in March, Honda said they'd be shipping this summer. They hadnt had a price or EPA rating yet. I guess there must be some serious manufacturing problems or something. Another reason to avoid a "first year" car. The FIT has been in production for years (mostly as the JAZZ) - it's new only in the U.S. > When I was at an auto show in March, Honda said they'd be shipping this > summer. > They hadnt had a price or EPA rating yet. > I guess there must be some serious manufacturing problems or something. > Another reason to avoid a "first year" car. >The FIT has been in production for years (mostly as the JAZZ) - it's new >only in the U.S. Yes, it doesn't appear to be a manufacturing problem, it appears that they underestimated the popularity. And, if gas prices continue dropping after the election, it may become unpopular again. |
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