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Car Forum / Honda Cars / October 2006Pinging, pinking, knocking...?
Hi, my 1.6L 4-cylinder Civic often makes a "clicking" noise, especially when under load in too high a gear. Sometimes even at the "correct" gear, when accelerating. Is this pinging, pinking, tappet noise, detonation, spark knock, etc? I've searched the posts, but I'm now more confused. Some people say "pinging" is the same as tappet noise, which is harmless, while some say pinging = detonation, which is bad. So which is it, really, and what could be causing it on my engine? Thanks! "Pinging" is different from tappet noise. "Pinking" is the British variant. Detonation is potentially bad. I have seen it break connecting rods. Spark knock is another name for it. Which model year is your Civic? Potential causes are maladjusted ignition timing, too low octane fuel, and carbon deposits in the combustion chambers. Earle > Hi, my 1.6L 4-cylinder Civic often makes a "clicking" noise, especially > when under load in too high a gear. Sometimes even at the "correct" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks!  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com It's a 1995 model. I check/adjust the timing every week or so, no problems there. Have noticed the 'pinging' even with premium fuel. Given that it's noisiest when under load and the gear is too high, is it more likely to be tappet noise, pinging or knock? How can I tell? > "Pinging" is different from tappet noise. "Pinking" is the British variant. > Detonation is potentially bad. I have seen it break connecting rods. Spark [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > > Thanks! One hears tappet noise at idle. This is most likely pinging. Why would you check/adjust the timing every week? Are you sure that you are doing it properly? If you retard the timing a few degrees, then take it for a test drive, and the noise is gone, then you would be pretty sure that it is pinging. Earle > It's a 1995 model. I check/adjust the timing every week or so, no > problems there. Have noticed the 'pinging' even with premium fuel. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > > > Thanks! SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Hi, my 1.6L 4-cylinder Civic often makes a "clicking" noise, especially > when under load in too high a gear. Sometimes even at the "correct" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks! How loud? Some Hondas use light pinging as an indication that engine tuning has just passed the optimum detonation timing. The 05 HAH even sounds like it's farting sometimes. If it's loud or constant I'd check the spark plugs for damage and make sure that the intake manifold is the right temperature. If there's an EGR valve, make sure it hasn't clogged. Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed. As it turned out, the timing was too advanced. It just never occurred to me that such a tiny amount of advance would cause so much pinging. It was early by only about 1 degree or less. So I guess the problem really was PINGING. It's pretty clear now that it wasn't tappet noise, but is pinging the same as detonation or knock? Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant? I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH). > Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed. > As it turned out, the timing was too advanced. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the > wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH). did you set the timing with the ecu service connector in place? if not, your timing is probably still out because the ecu electronically advances ignition from a base point. you need the connector in place to set base. also, if the timing belt is not set right, both cam and ignition timing are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed? Jim: Yes, I did set the timing with the 2P connector jumped. It seems the timing really was advanced by about 1 degree. Very interesting that you mentioned the timing belt. It was in fact replaced last week, but by a very good mechanic, and I closely watched the entire process (took a few hours). And I've had this "pinging" even with the old belt. Still, I'd like to be sure. How can I test you theory out? > > Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed. > > As it turned out, the timing was too advanced. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to > make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed? > Jim: Yes, I did set the timing with the 2P connector jumped. It seems > the timing really was advanced by about 1 degree. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How can I test you theory out? the distributor should be right in the middle of the adjusting slots. if it's too far at one end or the other, the belt's out. some more thoughts: 1. if the timing belt is loose, the timing marks will jump about under the strobe. they should be rock steady if the belt is correctly tensioned. in my experience, very few honda belts are tensioned correctly on replacement, so check just to be sure you eliminate this timing variance from the equation. 2. do you have the correct grade of spark plug? an incorrect grade running too hot will cause pre-ignition. 3. check the distributor internals. if the pickup coils or reluctors have broken free and are moving about, that would explain your need to constantly readjust timing. >>> Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed. >>> As it turned out, the timing was too advanced. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> are out relative to the crank. you can mess with the ignition timing to >> make it /look/ right, but it's a fudge. has the belt been changed? Kevin: I don't notice the tailpipe "farting" unless I'm outside, near the tailpipe and someone else is driving. So it could well be gone by now. I do remember the timing marks jumping about before the belt was replaced. But with the new belt, the marks are now rock-steady. Jim: Will check out the distributor ASAP. But I do remember a curious thing: When the timing belt was being replaced, the mechanic seemed to have a hard time trying to get the pulley marks aligned. I never did quite see if he got them perfectly lined up. It's as if the marks were somehow misaligned, or the belt was the wrong size (??). Could something like that have happened? Would it run if, say, a belt with an extra tooth was put on? We based the new timing belt on the old one (107 teeth), but the previous mechanic could have messed it up.. Is this possible? > Kevin: I don't notice the tailpipe "farting" unless I'm outside, near > the tailpipe and someone else is driving. So it could well be gone by [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > (107 teeth), but the previous mechanic could have messed it up.. Is > this possible? if you bought the correct oem belt, there should be no problem. inability to get them exactly aligned is highly suspect. in my experience, when the the cam and crank are set right, they are /exactly/ aligned. it's not as easy to set honda belts as it would first appear, and as i said before, they're frequently set either wrong, or too slack so that they skip. slackness is easily detected by "flutter" in the ignition timing. tension is set by aligning the belt, turning the crank so the cam advances 3 teeth [so there's pull generated by the cam lobes/valve springs], then tightening the tensioner pulley. turn the crank so the belt rotates 3 full times, then repeat the tensioning process exactly as before so the run between cam and crank is under the 3-tooth tension when set. /then/ check the belt timing just to be certain. if correct, they align exactly. if they're out, slack the tensioner and adjust the cam one tooth in whatever direction required. do NOT rotate the crank clockwise at any point in this process!!! You can't see if the pulleys are aligned or not, because the fender gets in the way of a good look. Unless one does these every day, it is typical to check the alignment several times. I never heard of anyone getting it wrong, and driving it. I suppose that it is possible, but it would run real bad. The timing marks were jumping around because the old belt no longer had the proper tension. Earle > Kevin: I don't notice the tailpipe "farting" unless I'm outside, near > the tailpipe and someone else is driving. So it could well be gone by [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > (107 teeth), but the previous mechanic could have messed it up.. Is > this possible? SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > 2. do you have the correct grade of spark plug? an incorrect grade > running too hot will cause pre-ignition. Jim: Yes, I have the correct plugs (NGK BKR6E-11). Just to eliminate other suspects, I also recently: * Added fuel injector cleaner (Prestone brand, about 1 month ago) * Replaced PCV * New distributor rotor * Replaced ignition coil * Oil changed * New timing belt (All original Honda parts) > Thanks to everyone who responded. The problem's finally fixed. > As it turned out, the timing was too advanced. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Kevin: You mentioned a "farting" sound, and yes, the tailpipe seemed to > make that noise when you step on the gas. Is that what you meant? The 2005 HAH momentarily over advances so badly that the pinging becomes chaotic, like running over a whoopie cushion. The HAH control systems are so unrefined that I could cry. Tailpipe farting is usually a sign of retarded timing. It's odd that you have both. Is some ECU signal, like a knock sensor, broken? Or a stuck EGR valve? > I suppose *some* pinging is expected on any car when you are in the > wrong gear (e.g. 4th gear at 10MPH). I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now for almost 3-4 years. In my case, it is not the lifters (tappets), or engine knock/pinging. My engine timing is fine too. (I assume your remark about adjusting timing every week is a typo?). The clicking comes from either some solenoid attached to the firewall (a part of the device tray?), or maybe the injector solenoids. I just do not know......... One has to have really sharp hearing (most of my passengers cannnot hear the clicking) to hear this annoying click. In my case too, it comes on occasionally, even when I am cruising at highway speeds. Grade of gas does not matter as you say. The car drives fine, and does 39-41 mpg on highway. (I have been to the dealership once, just to get this sound diagnosed.........unfortunately none of the mechanics could hear it). My low-tech (self-defeating?) solution.......just lower the driver side window a crack whenever the clicking appears.......then you cannot hear it anymore....... If you find the culprit please post......in the past, there have been posts by others in this newsgroup on this mystery clicking as well.......but no one is any-the-wiser..... > Hi, my 1.6L 4-cylinder Civic often makes a "clicking" noise, especially > when under load in too high a gear. Sometimes even at the "correct" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks! ah1244: Yes, most passengers don't hear it at all. But in my case, it's the opposite of yours: I can hear it only when the windows are *open*. Does this rule out knocking or detonation? I adjusted the timing only once, after the distributor rotor was replaced, and checked timing every chance I get, because I also thought the noise could be related to timing. Actually I replaced the rotor for precisely this reason also. But still no luck. Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a little now.. Will post back about results. > I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now > for almost 3-4 years. In my case, it is not the lifters (tappets), or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (a part of the device tray?), or maybe the injector solenoids. I just > do not know......... >> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now >> for almost 3-4 years. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thanks for the tip, Earl and Kevin. I'll try retarding the timing a > little now.. Will post back about results. Are you sure that sound is coming from in front of you? I had a mystery sound like yours that turned out to be the two latches on the rear seat back that you release to lay it flat. The slight movement of the seat while traveling down the road was causing the latch to slide sideways and as it did a bit of sticktion made a little click as it let go. A smear of grease on the parts concerned instantly fixed it! (Note to self - it needs doing again now two years later!). -- Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter. Yes, it definitely comes from the front. Now that Sharx333 has solved his problem by tweaking his timing, I am definitely going to have a second look at my own timing......my "clicking" comes on occasionally when cruising at 65-70 mph. None at lower speeds. > >> I have been living with this intermittant clicking in my 91 Civic now > >> for almost 3-4 years. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps > Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter. |
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