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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2007Odometer Class Action Suit?
I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the most accurate! I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4% error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a problem is this? If I switch tire sizes, it all goes out the window, anyway. Anyone else question their odometer? Bill Radio > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will > acheive Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Anyone else question their odometer? Sure. The odometer on my '88 Civic is about 2-3% off. For what it's worth, slight errors can be adjusted for by switching to different tires. Try experimenting with a tire size calculator such as http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html. Eric I've noticed when I pass through the school or police van radars my 2000 Ody shows about 2-3 mph below what my speedometer is showing. As an aside, this is a replacement unit, because my first one blew (quit) during the warranty period. >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Bill Radio > I've noticed when I pass through the school or police van radars my > 2000 Ody shows about 2-3 mph below what my speedometer is showing. As > an aside, this is a replacement unit, because my first one blew (quit) > during the warranty period. Interestingly, that's what I've seen in all the modern cars and trucks I've driven the last few years. 2 mph conservative at low speeds, 3 (sometimes 4) mph at highway speeds. Mike >><stilllost@comcast.net> wrote in message >>news:c877p2phbsus97itu4suej4jd26rb8f42i@4ax.com... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >>Mike Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1 mph fast at all speeds. >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1 >mph fast at all speeds. I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy. However, if anything, I suspected the odometer of being a tad pessimistic, reading shorter than actual distances, maybe a couple of percent in the other direction. So the combination means I look at the speedometer, estimate my time of arrival, and can't understand why I'm late. J. > >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about 1 > >mph fast at all speeds. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > J. On several long trips I have had a go at calibrating my speedometer. The accuracy of my calculation is 100% dependent on the assumption that the odometer is reading correctly. I set the cruise control to hold several speeds, usually 60, 65, 70 and 80 mph and then record the miles traveled over a 3 minute time period. The results were relatively consistent--the speedometer reading was always higher than the calculated number and it was a combination of a percentage of the speed plus a fixed value. The error was 4% of the speedometer reading plus 2. So when set to 80, calculated was 75; 70 vs 65, 65 vs 60, 60 vs 61 . Not too sure just how accurate this is but I do know that when I was moving at the 70 mph (65 speed limit) I always seemed to be the slowest one on the road. MLD >> >Comparing my 2001 Accord to GPS, the speedometer is dead on. Reads about >1 [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >seemed to be the slowest one on the road. >MLD The best way to check is to use the mile markers on the interstate highways. > The best way to check is to use the mile markers on the interstate > highways. I'm so used to the markers here in Arizona I forget not all states have them. I know California doesn't. Mike Yes California does! Take a look at those little white rectangular paddles along to side of the road. The Large numbers on them are post-miles. Also at certain markers that end in ##.00 there will be a large white mark in the middle of the sideline stripe. These may be 5 miles apart or less. This is so that the CHP can clock your speed from the air. Randy >> The best way to check is to use the mile markers on the interstate >> highways. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mike > Yes California does! Take a look at those little white rectangular > paddles along to side of the road. The Large numbers on them are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Randy Thanks for the info! Mike "JXStern" > I've questioned the speedometer on my 2004 Accord as being a little > optimistic, reading 65mph when others are passing me in the presence > of Highway Patrol car! And, um, I forget what else triggered > suspicion, but I estimated at least 2-3mph discrepancy. My 2004 Accord is dead on. I've tested it several times and at various speeds using a handheld GPS. I've also tested it against the traffic signboards that tell you your speed as you approach it. Under all curcumstances, the readings match up. I can't say the same for the three Civics I owned previously. >> I've noticed when I pass through the school or police van radars my >> 2000 Ody shows about 2-3 mph below what my speedometer is showing. As [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mike I was surprised at the accuracy on the speedo on my 06 Civic Si. When I pass through the police radar truck areas, I have never been more than 1 MPH off, at any speed range. In all of my past vehicles, they would be off by 1-2 at 30, and 3-4 at 60. >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Bill Radio For decades, manufacturers have intentionally aimed for calibration which was as much as 10% above reality. There are a number of advantages to this - the owner thinks he is getting better gas mileage, the car is lasting longer, maintenance intervals come sooner and replacement of the vehicle will come earlier if the decision is based on the odometer. That said, it seems like the odometers have become more accurate over the last 10 - 15 years. As you point out, tire size can throw off the odometer no matter how well it was calibrated. Even tire wear and inflation will have minor effects. Also, different brands/models of tires can vary slightly in size, even if they have the same size designation. Add in a reasonable production tolerance and a desire to error on the high side and you can have perhaps a +4% error even though the manufacturer made a good faith effort to deliver an accurate instrument. That said, if the manufacturer can be shown to have intentionally delivered a significantly miscalibrated odometer, it might be cause for legal action to recover loses associated with excess vehicle depreciation. To win this, I think they should have to show that the manufacturer in question was significantly worse than comparable cars in this regard since the value of a used vehicle is compared to others on the market. The manufacturer could argue that the odometer measures "odometer miles" which are comparable with other used vehicles within the make if not between makes. He could even argue that, if his make is worse than other in this regard, that the over-optimistic odometer reading has given his brand a reputation for quality that compensates for the excess mileage. Do the papers provided by the court mention any specific level of inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4% with original tires, the case is bogus IMO. I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the "settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and "Mile 37,800". If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect, then 1) the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false; 2) both of the trip meters also incorrectly state miles traveled; 3) Honda owners can not sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the actual miles driven; 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously high, due to the overstated odometer. chand > >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive > >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4% > with original tires, the case is bogus IMO. >I am a Honda owner and am furious. I received a copy of the >"settlement" in the mail yesterday. The only ones benefiting from the >suit are the attorneys that filed the case. The only benefit I can get >is "any out of pocket expenses occurring between "Mile 36,000" and >"Mile 37,800". This implies that the odometers are reading 5% high. Therefore you get a 5% extension in your warranty. That seems fair. >If the mileage on the odometer is incorrect, Have you checked it? > then 1) >the MPG is not as good as was promoted and the advertising that >factored into my decision to buy a Honda was false; The odometer does not affect your actual mileage of course. If you mean that you are measuring your MPG and the number is 5% higher than reality, then you need to factor that into your calculation. If you are referring to the EPA estimate, then rest assured that the estimate is in no way dependent on the accuracy of the odometer. >2) both of the trip >meters also incorrectly state miles traveled; You need to factor this in, but I don't see how you have been harmed by this. >3) Honda owners can not >sell their used Hondas for their actual value since the odometer >reading, which is a factor in the sales price, will overstate the >actual miles driven; This may or may not be a valid point. But consider that, to the extent that used Odysseys compete with each other for buyers, they are all at an equal disadvantage. To the extent that they compete with other cars, we don't know how accurate those cars' odometers are. I can tell you that +5% is pretty typical for odometer accuracy. > 4) vehicle usage taxes owed will be erroneously >high, due to the overstated odometer. If you pay taxes on this basis, then you are overpaying. Where are you that calculates taxes this way? I have never heard of this and it seems ripe for cheating by periodically disconnecting the odometer. I would have a hard time working up much anger about this. >> >I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive >> >Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> inaccuracy? If they can't show that the cars average at least +4% >> with original tires, the case is bogus IMO. > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bill Radio i can't understand why anyone would launch a lawsuit on this in the first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll. > > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive > > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are > /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll. An inaccurate reading odometer can affect your mileage warranty by reporting higher mileage than is accurately on the car. >>> I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will > acheive [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > An inaccurate reading odometer can affect your mileage warranty by reporting > higher mileage than is accurately on the car. 1. there are legal limits on inaccuracy. 2. this car is allegedly /too/ accurate. makes no sense. They filed the suit so the lawyers could collect $9.8 million in legal fees from Honda! I'm sure that if Honda odometers consistently read LOW, the same four lawyers would file in behalf of purchasers of used Hondas. Texas' tort reform has chased these small fry lawyers into federal court. Al > > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will acheive > > Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 Accord is the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > first place, let alone one that complains about where cars are > /accurate/. i say this is an anti-import troll. > I just received paperwork from the feds concerning a suit that will > acheive Class Action status on Accord odometers. Of all cars, our '05 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bill Radio Well, enjoy the 5% warranty boost. > I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4% > error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a > problem is this? Apparently very common. Many years ago, when I first got a handheld GPS, I tested it against my 92 Civic--and found that the Civic's speedometer was showing 5mph fast, no matter what. Fast forward to today. I'm driving my mother's 94 Civic home to sell it; interestingly enough, I'm driving in exactly the same place I drove years ago when I tested my 92...and the GPS shows that my mother's 94 behaves exactly the same way as my 92 did. >> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4% >> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > years ago when I tested my 92...and the GPS shows that my mother's 94 > behaves exactly the same way as my 92 did. it's the way of the world. speedos are required to be within 10%. almost everyone opts for the "fast" solution, some more so than others. [bmw and ford really push the bleeding edge, especially over 70 where there is no legal accuracy requirement.] the reasoning is quite simple. customers want their car to be "fast". [faster 0-60, bmw drivers bowling along at what they think is 85...] cops want cars to be "slow". everybody's happy. it makes no difference to fuel economy. it stops you getting tickets. i see no problem. >>> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4% >>> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >cops want cars to be "slow". everybody's happy. it makes no difference >to fuel economy. it stops you getting tickets. i see no problem. The issue is really the odometer which does cost money by accelerating depreciation, maintenance intervals, trade-in intervals and warranty expiration. The odometer and speedometer do not necessarily have the same error. >>>> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4% >>>> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > expiration. The odometer and speedometer do not necessarily have the > same error. odometer/speedometer inconsistency is true, but even if the odometer is off, what impact does it have? what's the difference between a 30k mile car and a 33k mile car in value? it will affect you if you lease a car, [which incidentally is a very high proportion of bmw "sales"] and you go over your lease mileage limits, but again, the manufacturer wins - no incentive for them to erode the 10% "slop" they're allowed. and how are you going to "prove" a problem? "sorry sir, you can't have had your tires inflated properly." > the reasoning is quite simple. customers want their car to be "fast". > [faster 0-60, bmw drivers bowling along at what they think is 85...] cops > want cars to be "slow". everybody's happy. it makes no difference to > fuel economy. it stops you getting tickets. i see no problem. I read a sci-fi short story many years ago called "The Marching Morons." (IIRC) One of the major facets of the theme of a populace ignorant of the stupidity of their lives was found in their cars. The protagonist came from present day to find himself in that future, and when he was driven somewhere in a "modern" car he noticed irregularities. The speedometer swiftly hit 300 mph and there were sparks blowing past the window, but the scenery moved past at about 35 mph and the time it took to get to their destination was more consistent with 35 mph than 300. But... everybody was happy! Mike >> I do, however, have a different car that has a similar 3-4% >> error on the speedometer & odometer. So, now I'm wondering how common a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > years ago when I tested my 92...and the GPS shows that my mother's 94 > behaves exactly the same way as my 92 did. Got a Garmin c320 GPS for Christmas. Checked my speedo on a long trip yesterday, and much like the street-side police checks, the GPS shows my speed as within 1MPH at all ranges. They certainly have gotten better over the years! |
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