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Car Forum / Honda Cars / January 2007length of lower control arms
Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does anybody know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and which are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension? > Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does anybody > know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and which > are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension? you use adjustable upper arms, not lower. readily available. if you want the wheel track wider, use spacers on the hubs. jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: >> Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does anybody >> know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and which >> are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension? >> > you use adjustable upper arms, not lower. readily available. if you > want the wheel track wider, use spacers on the hubs. Which will quickly eat up the wheel bearings.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- > dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Which will quickly eat up the wheel bearings. how is that? >> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- >> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> > how is that? Just a wild guess but I imagine moving the weight to the outside of those bearing is going to play hell with them. The axle/bearing assembly is designed with the weight centered on the bearing surfaces. Move it in or out and you concentrate the weight (not to mention the forces inflicted on the wheel by uneven terrain) on the end of the axle. Bad ju ju! >>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- >>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > forces inflicted on the wheel by uneven terrain) on the end of the axle. > Bad ju ju! ok, but: 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway. 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to go much more than 10mm. 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing". bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops. "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > ok, but: > 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway. > 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to > go much more than 10mm. > 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing". > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is > lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops. I have heard the explanation, whether myth or fact, that the use of spacers will cause premature failure of bearings. Since the axle flange is always out past the centerplane of the bearing, like you, I dont think it matters too much. I tend to think this may be another garage legend, but wont stick my neck out on it. > "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > ok, but: >> 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I tend to think this may be another garage legend, but wont stick my neck > out on it. it might have been a "factor" in the old days of bad bearings and positive scrub radius, but now we have good bearings and negative scrub radius... having sealed bearing units that can't be "helped" by the racer kiddie adding more grease extends bearing life significantly too. > "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > ok, but: > > 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I tend to think this may be another garage legend, but wont stick my neck > out on it. Certainly in older RWD designs where the centerline of the wheel is outside of the bearing, moving it further out by use of wider wheels, spacers, and usually both increases the lever arm of the load on the bearing. If the centerline of the wheel is inside of the bearing, then a spacer has the opposite effect, but of course it does affect whatever steering effect they wanted to achieve by putting the centerline of the wheel there. >>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- >>>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ok, but: > 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway. A load that the bearing is designed to handle. > 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to > go much more than 10mm. 10mm that is going to move the load out, changing the designed fulcrum of the original geometry, increasing the load on the bearing. > 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing". > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is > lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops. The point of a well designed aftermarket control arms is to keep the suspension geometry correct in the areas that matter. Bearing load and various wheel alignment tracking angles would be very close to the original design. > 10mm that is going to move the load out, changing the designed fulcrum > of the original geometry, increasing the load on the bearing. Well so is having fat aunt Martha sitting in the passenger seat, but it is not likely to affect the life of the bearing in any measurable way. -jim > > 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing". > > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Bearing load and various wheel alignment tracking angles would be very > close to the original design. >>>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- >>>>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > 10mm that is going to move the load out, changing the designed fulcrum > of the original geometry, increasing the load on the bearing. dude, with respect, you're going to get more transient bearing load on a bearing from having suspension lowered too far than you are from spacers. >> 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing". >> bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is >> lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops. > > The point of a well designed aftermarket control arms is to keep the > suspension geometry correct in the areas that matter. hardly - all it does is correct camber. it does nothing for the swing radius of any of the suspension components themselves. > Bearing load and various wheel alignment tracking angles would be very > close to the original design. by what margin??? the vehicle has a working load in the range of 800lbs. how do you think spee-dee ricer with his 10mm spacers and 90lb girlfriend is going to exert more leverage on the bearings than spec? install an even bigger sub? > >>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- > >>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is > lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops. Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized. I don't want aftermarket arms sized for lowered suspensions that will throw the rear camber off. Some sales websites identify some aftermarket arms as shortened for lowered suspensions, some don't, nobody identifies any of the aftermarket arms as stock length. > Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock > length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first > warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new > bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized. I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those places. In there I found something very interesting for $20. What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw- type balljoint pullers. If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the immobile-car syndrome. SignatureTegger > > Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock > > length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the > immobile-car syndrome. I was thinking of something like that; like I said, since the bearings have been pre-removed for me, it's just a matter of pressing new ones in, so I was thinking just the biggest screw, nut, and washer that would fit; or if that's too weak, as you mention, a big clampy thing with an external bigger screw. I'll go look at the car parts store. I was even thinking of just sandwiching the thing between the jacking pad on the car and the jack. Pretty sweet, eh Tegger? Did you find the Ball Joint tool? It was on sale last week for $15. Terry in Winnipeg. >> Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock >> length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the >immobile-car syndrome. >> I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. > > Pretty sweet, eh Tegger? Did you find the Ball Joint tool? It was on > sale last week for $15. Sweet it is! Never seen anything like it up here. The sign above the doors says "The Unique World of Princess Auto", which did not seem to be an exaggeration from where I stood. I wasn't in there more than ten minutes, but even then the choice was overwhelming. Never located the balljoint tool in my hurried exploration, but did find an IR thermometer for $77 (cool!), and the Schley-type bushing press C-clamp for $20. Princess is now well out of my way, whereas it once used to be a place I drove by regularly. It just so happened that the other day I had to be at a place down the street, so I popped in, figuring it didn't cost me a left- turn to do it, so why not. Now I HAVE to go back and explore at leisure. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- >>>>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > aftermarket arms as shortened for lowered suspensions, some don't, > nobody identifies any of the aftermarket arms as stock length. question: if it's stock height, why do you want to adjust the camber? the only reason it can be out is either damage or worn bushings. new bushings cure the latter. a visit to the junk yard cures the former. aftermarket control arms are usually the adjustable types so you set to what you want. > >>>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- > >>>>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > aftermarket control arms are usually the adjustable types so you set to > what you want. The other way around; I want to avoid Unintended Camber Adjustment by Helpful Aftermarket Manufacturers who think I lowered the suspension, when all I want is to replace the shredded bushings with minimal trouble, and if I can get a set of aftermarket control arms with bushings installed for < $100, that makes them competitive with getting a stock set from a junkyard and having to get bushings installed in them in terms of hassle per dollar factor, and both are miles above having to take the arms out then haul them somewhere on my bike to get new bearings pressed in. or trying to press them in myself in the backyard. > The other way around; I want to avoid Unintended Camber Adjustment by > Helpful Aftermarket Manufacturers who think I lowered the suspension, If you're the sort who buys aftermarket in the first place, I think it's a safe bet you're also the type who wants to flatten his cranium against the roof by having the suspension bouncily bottom out on gum wrappers and lost coins. But you're not that type, so... > when all I want is to replace the shredded bushings with minimal > trouble, and if I can get a set of aftermarket control arms with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bike to get new bearings pressed in. or trying to press them in myself > in the backyard. I think you may be overestimating the problem. Before starting the job, phone around to a few places, and ask them if they'd be willing to push out some small bushings on-the-spot for you when you show up. Should take an hour total for both arms, going slowly with lots of palaver and jokes. (I would advise not attempting to do this at 4:00pm on a Saturday. Ask me how I know...). With an electric impact wrench, it should take you minutes to sever the lower control arms from the vehicle. And they're small and light, so easily transportable by bike. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>>>>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI- >>>>>>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net: [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > new bearings pressed in. or trying to press them in myself in the > backyard. so buy new stock control arms then - they have new bushings pre-installed... or am i missing something? |
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