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Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 2007Silly question regarding manual tranny
Hello, A coworker had a weird accident where he was driving his oldish Toyota Sienna and tried to apply some engine brake with his automatic transmission. He was able to push the shaft up into Reverse; neddless to say, he lost control and the car swerved hard and rolled over a few times. The van was totalled, of course, but fortunately the driver walked away, shakingly. Now, the question is: is it possible to push the stick from the fifth into reverse on my 2000 Civic manual tranny while having forward movement? Or is there some mechanical stop that prevents me from doing such a stupid thing? Not that I would ever want to do this, just for my general knowledge regarding transmission design. Thanks, Serban > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > such a stupid thing? Not that I would ever want to do this, just for > my general knowledge regarding transmission design. There's a mechanical block. From 5th, you have to move the lever into the center of the neutral pattern, then into Reverse. Try it (with the car stopped) and you'll see.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > center of the neutral pattern, then into Reverse. Try it (with the car > stopped) and you'll see. Cool! It probably saves a lot of gear grinding. My last work truck had reverse right beside fourth gear. I had to concentrate on downshifts from fifth or it would reward me with the "you are an idiot" sound. Are all Honda manual trannies made that way? Mike >>> Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Are all Honda manual trannies made that way? As far as I know. All the modern manual transmissions I've ever driven have had some sort of lockout for reverse. Some examples: 1) Reverse is off to one side, out of the forward gear shift pattern 2) Push the shift lever down while moving to Reverse 3) Pull the shift lever up while moving to Reverse 4) Pull a small two-finger handle up while moving to Reverse 5) Move lever to middle of Neutral before moving to Reverse I drove an old Ford pickup once with a three-on-the-tree. There was no Reverse lockout, so you had to be careful going from 1st to 2nd, especially once the linkage developed a bit of slack. Column 3-speeds are usually arranged this way: R2 13 Some trivia here: Most 4 and 5-speeds are arranged something like this: 13 24R 135 24R But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International, which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like: 25R 341 If you didn't pay any attention to the plate on the dash with that pattern embossed on it, you weren't going anywhere fast! SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International, which > once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like: > 25R > 341 > If you didn't pay any attention to the plate on the dash with that > pattern embossed on it, you weren't going anywhere fast! i think it was 24r 351 reason for offset first was, you didn't use it for normal driving, only loaded starts on hills. it was a crawler gear. what's the shift gate on the civic 4wd wagon? istr something like a crawler gear on that. maybe r24 135 i don't recall. the 4wd civic wagon was a damned fine utility vehicle btw. honda should consider reviving something like that, or a 4wd accord wagon, for subaru competition. and to compete with the volvos and audis. they should also bring back the crx of course. >> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International, >> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > reason for offset first was, you didn't use it for normal driving, > only loaded starts on hills. it was a crawler gear. My pattern is correct. I'm looking at a photo of that dash plate now. 25R 341 SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International, >>> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 25R > 341 fair enough. 1 is still offset because it's a crawler though. it's a "feature" on a number of older commercial vehicles - real fun if it's one of the ones with no synchro! >>>> But some manufacturers did this very oddly, notably International, >>>> which once made truck gearboxes that had patterns like: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "feature" on a number of older commercial vehicles - real fun if it's one > of the ones with no synchro! Ah! Like the old White 6x military vehicle one used to find in Civil Defense in the early 60s. Of course, I had a 64 XKE which I am convinced had an almost non-existent synchro -- those old Moss 4 speeds with the long throw from 1st to 2nd. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Serban Yep - it's possible (not at all easy) with any manual transmission. However, as anybody who has accidentally hit the reverse slot while trying to downshift will attest, it is accompanied by a horrible grinding of gears and lots of resistance. What the driver is trying to do is to get the gears in the transmission to stop spinning forward at high speed and start spinning backward. The tranny won't actually go into reverse until the gears mesh, and that isn't going to happen without a fight. Reverse gear is not "synchro'd" - provided with a synchronizer to quietly coerce the gear speeds to match - in any modern transmission I know of, so it would take some real determination to get it into reverse. Why anybody would do that and then let out the clutch so it would make a difference is anybody's guess. Short answer - it would warn you mightily with harsh noises if you try. Mike Thanks for the replies. One more reason to just love manual trannies, I guess. One thing to note is that not many stick drivers had seen the weird shift patterns mentioned above, but some will experience the back-and- forth switching between a 5speed and a 6speed car transmissions. Isn't the 6th in the same position as the reverse for the 5speed? One last question I have is about my coworker's accident. How could the automatic tranny actually engage into reverse from probably a 4th speed? Serban > Thanks for the replies. One more reason to just love manual trannies, > I guess. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Serban they simply made a mistake and pushed the lever the wrong way. no way is the transmission going to do that on its own. <SNIP> > One last question I have is about my coworker's accident. How could > the automatic tranny actually engage into reverse from probably a 4th > speed? > > Serban --------------------------- More likely it actually slammed into PARK (why was he shifting in the wrong direction anyhow ?? ). Honda's auto won't let you engage a gear that will over-rev the engine or otherwise mess things up, but apparently you can still force it into PARK, at speed. There have been other questions about that. 'Curly' > <SNIP> >> One last question I have is about my coworker's accident. How could [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 'Curly' the civic won't lock in park at speed - i know because a "friend" demonstrated that to me on my new 2000 just after i'd got it. :( fortunately it has a dog with ramps whose angles allow it to ratchet unless a secondary locking pin pops into place, and that can't happen unless the dog is stationary. makes a scary noise that i don't recommend investigating for yourself. > One thing to note is that not many stick drivers had seen the weird > shift patterns mentioned above, but some will experience the back-and- > forth switching between a 5speed and a 6speed car transmissions. Isn't > the 6th in the same position as the reverse for the 5speed? I got my new work truck about a year ago. The previous Ford was from the early '90s and had a 5 speed while the new Ford is an '05 with a turbo diesel and a six speed. In the 5 speed reverse was in the back right corner while in the 6 speed it is in the front left corner. I really learned to hate that 5 speed shift pattern because of reverse. It reminded me of the joke about the guy who was racing somebody away from the stop light... he started out in "(D)rag" and ended up shifting into "(R)ace." Mike >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Mike I did it once ion my 198x chevvette. It wasnt from a high speed, I was probably doing 25-30 mph. It did go into reverse with much dificulty. I doubt it would have went into gear at highway speeds tho. YMMV... Signature1984 RZ350 |
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