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Car Forum / Honda Cars / February 2007Probably gonna get an Odyssey...
Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I no longer trust. 2 weeks ago needed the intake manifold repaired, now last week the AWD stopped working. Initially they said needed a new rear diff. to the tune of $3000. Told them to forget it. Later on, after they did some more research, found some other tech articles suggesting just replacing the AWD pump in the diff would do the trick. That was only $250 ($170 for part plus labor). Went ahead with that gamble merely to keep it in as good a shape as possible till we decide upon it's replacement. It's not an issue of the dealer. I've dealt with them for many years on prior vehicles and they've always been straight. It's I just don't trust the vehicle any longer. Only has 96000 miles on it and seems like it is falling apart. 3 vehicles we are looking at are the '07 Odyssey EX-L, the '07 Sienna XLE with Package #3, or the MB R350 (my uncle works for them and can get me a sweet lease even with a 20000 mile a year allowance. I haven't driven the Odyssey yet, but my wife went and drove it Thursday. Today we both tried out the Sienna. Very nice. My wife liked the drive better than the Odyssey. But the Sienna, in the XLE level, only comes 7 passenger. So that issue, and the 175,000 nearly trouble free miles on my '01 Accord V6 EX-L has her leaning that way. Dealer is offering it to us for $29,438, so we're pretty happy with that. Gonna see if I can work him a little further and/or see what I can get out of him on our trade-in (haven't even mentioned trade to dealer yet). Ok, lots of irrelevant history out of the way...Just wanted to get that data out there in case anybody else is currently comparing the same vehicles. Any finance deals or incentives either rumored or confirmed in the upcoming week or 2? Hoping there may be some rebates or financing incentives for the upcoming President's day weekend. Thanks > Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I no > longer trust. For a data point: I have an 02 Odyssey, and I trust it 100%--with the wife and kids in it, going on long trips. I'm amazed that people buy cars you can't trust 5 years later. >> Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I >> no >> longer trust. > > For a data point: I have an 02 Odyssey, and I trust it 100%--with the > wife and kids in it, going on long trips. I *know* that getting an Odyssey would not be a mistake. Same with the Sienna. I don't think the R350 would be a mistake either, especially since it's only a 27month lease. What the hell could go wrong in 27 months? > I'm amazed that people buy cars you can't trust 5 years later. That's why I'm off GM. Was a GM guy for a long time. This is the last disappointment. > I *know* that getting an Odyssey would not be a mistake. Same with the > Sienna. I don't think the R350 would be a mistake either, especially since > it's only a 27month lease. What the hell could go wrong in 27 months? Well, hell, you could save yourself some dough and get another GM if you're going to dump it 27 months/27,000 miles. I like the way you put it, though--the German car (which overall is a mistake) *should* be OK for 27 months... >> I *know* that getting an Odyssey would not be a mistake. Same with the >> Sienna. I don't think the R350 would be a mistake either, especially [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well, hell, you could save yourself some dough and get another GM if > you're going to dump it 27 months/27,000 miles. Except the GM doesn't lease as well. The higher end cars lease much better if that's the route I choose to take. > I like the way you put it, though--the German car (which overall is a > mistake) *should* be OK for 27 months... I've had German in the past and my last 2 motorcycles have been German with no issues. Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey problems on www.odyclub.com . With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and other problems they are far worse than the problems you had on the Venture. The reliability is no better there. >>> Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition >>> I no [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > That's why I'm off GM. Was a GM guy for a long time. This is the last > disappointment. > Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey > problems on www.odyclub.com . With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and > other problems they are far worse than the problems you had on the Venture. > The reliability is no better there. Except he's talking about an 07 Odyssey, not an 02. The transmission problems that plagued the V6-powered Odysseys and Accords have, for the most part, been resolved since then. And he's gotta be living right since he also mentioned he has an 01 Accord V6 with 175K miles on it. :) Dave But he is comparing it to a 2002. The problems he had then are also fixed in the 07 GM cars. The 07 Odyssey hasn't been out long enough to say the problems are fixed.... >> Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey >> problems on www.odyclub.com . With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Dave > But he is comparing it to a 2002. The problems he had then are also fixed > in the 07 GM cars. The 07 Odyssey hasn't been out long enough to say the > problems are fixed.... I'm comparing it against an '02 GM only because that's the only GM I currently have. None of my previous GMs have felt reliable at high mileage. Meanwhile I've had 3 Hondas do well for me well past the 100K mark. My current '01 Accord is one of the ones that were plagued by transmission problems. I'm now at 175,000 miles with no problems with the tranny and the only problems were a wheel bearing ($225 to replace at 130,000 miles) and now I need my EGR serviced. > But he is comparing it to a 2002. The problems he had then are also fixed in > the 07 GM cars. The 07 Odyssey hasn't been out long enough to say the > problems are fixed.... GM's minivans still stink, enough so that they are about to be killed off all together by the General. > Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey > problems on www.odyclub.com . With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and > other problems they are far worse than the problems you had on the > Venture. The reliability is no better there. I'm not buying an '02 Odyssey... > Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey > problems on www.odyclub.com . With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and > other problems they are far worse than the problems you had on the Venture. > The reliability is no better there. Woody, would you please do this newsgroup a favor... SHUT THE HELL UP!!! Once again, here's a reality check for you. Honda extended warranties and/or issued recalls for many of those issues. If you look at long-term reliability data in Consumer Reports or just about any other source, they will say that Odyssey is still more reliable than any big 3 minivan. Venture (since "replaced" by Upchucker, uh, I mean Uplander) is saddled with a V6 that is prone to the expensive-to-fix intake manifold gasket problem that GM still refuses to acknowledge. Ford and Crapsler minivans still have higher rates of tranny failure than the Odyssey, and they never issued recalls or extended warranties for them. BTW, the OP is looking at a new Odyssey. The tranny issue was resolved by the time it was redesigned for 2005. > > Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey > > problems on www.odyclub.com . With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and > > other problems they are far worse than the problems you had on the Venture. > > The reliability is no better there. > > Woody, would you please do this newsgroup a favor... SHUT THE HELL UP!!! Read his post carefully, and you'll see what an ignoramus he is. He says that by 2007 GM has fixed their problems, so the 2002 GM vehicle isn't a gauge of what GM stuff is like now. But then he says that we should look at the 2002 Honda and know what Honda stuff is like, and that the 2007 Honda hasn't been out long enough to know if anything's fixed. Hmmmmmm. By his definition, everything's fixed in the 2007 GM. We know that apparently because, well, we know that. OTOH, the 2007 Honda hasn't been out long enough to know. Interesting logic, there. If nothing else, look at the relative merits of the 02 Odyssey vs. the 02 GM, and extend that relationship the 07 Odyssey vs. the 07 GM. If the 07 GM got X% better than the 02 GM, then the 07 Odyssey got X% better than the 02 Odyssey. And the Honda product in 02 was Y% better than the GM back then, so the 07 Honda product is the same Y% better than the 07 GM product. > > Before you harp all the praise on the jap cars look at the 2002 Odyssey > > problems onwww.odyclub.com. With their transmission, EGR, IAC valve and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > BTW, the OP is looking at a new Odyssey. The tranny issue was resolved by > the time it was redesigned for 2005. Yeah, Honda just mailed out like last week the notices of extended warranties for the transmissions on all those Odysseys and the other models with the problem. Meanwhile, I know lots of people with Odysseys of that vintage, and none of them have actually encountered the problem. > Dealer is offering it to us > for $29,438, so we're pretty happy with that. That's about right if it's for the EX-L with the DVD, and a good deal if it's for the EX-L with the DVD + navigation, but it's about $1000 high for the plain EX-L. >> Dealer is offering it to us for $29,438, so we're pretty happy with >> that. > > That's about right if it's for the EX-L with the DVD, and a good deal if > it's for the EX-L with the DVD + navigation, but it's about $1000 high for > the plain EX-L. Good to know. I've since gotten an email offer from another Honda dealer I contacted through edmunds.com for 27,989. I'll see if my preferred dealer will match that. >> Dealer is offering it to us for $29,438, so we're pretty happy with >> that. > > That's about right if it's for the EX-L with the DVD, and a good deal if > it's for the EX-L with the DVD + navigation, but it's about $1000 high > for the plain EX-L. Mine was plain EX-L for 28500. Basically the dealer invoice according to Consumer Reports. > I haven't driven the Odyssey yet, but my wife went and drove it Thursday. > Today we both tried out the Sienna. Very nice. My wife liked the drive > better than the Odyssey. But the Sienna, in the XLE level, only comes 7 > passenger. We did the same thing. I could have lived with either one (we were going to buy whichever had the better deal) but I actually thought the Odyssey had a little firmer ride and handled a little better. Everything about the Sienna was so light-feeling. I like a little 'heft' and feeling in my controls. That, the 8-seating capability and an excellent lease deal had us buy thr Odyssey. Since you have an AWD van now, I'm assuming you live in the snow belt somewhere...? So, unless you're talking about the 4matic version of the Benz, I'd pass on the R350. Dan D '07 Ody EX Central NJ USA >> I haven't driven the Odyssey yet, but my wife went and drove it Thursday. >> Today we both tried out the Sienna. Very nice. My wife liked the drive [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 'heft' and feeling in my controls. That, the 8-seating capability and > an excellent lease deal had us buy thr Odyssey. I haven't driven the Odyssey yet, but I was very impressed with the way the '07 Sienna rode. My wife has driven both and thought the Sienna was a little better. But the 8 passenger seating has her swaying towards the Odyssey along with my Accords track record. > Since you have an AWD van now, I'm assuming you live in the snow belt > somewhere...? So, unless you're talking about the 4matic version of > the Benz, I'd pass on the R350. Yeah, 70 miles north of NYC and I work in Lyndhurst, NJ. On the MB, yes, 4Matic. But even if we were to get the Sienna, not going for the AWD. Just gonna get a spare set of rims to through some snow tires on. Those 5 days a year where AWD is required over FWD, she can stay home like I do. We have a Odyssey 06 Touring model. Fine car though leather seats are a bit hard. Interior of Sienna reminded me of a Ford Taurus. Both are good cars. Read consumer reports review at library. For better handling get the Odyssey. For slightly softer ride get the Sienna. I would go with the better dealer if it was a toss up. Odyssey should be cheaper to take home feature for feature. > Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I > no longer trust. 2 weeks ago needed the intake manifold repaired, now [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Thanks > We have a Odyssey 06 Touring model. Fine car though leather seats are a > bit hard. Interior of Sienna reminded me of a Ford Taurus. Both are > good cars. Read consumer reports review at library. For better handling > get the Odyssey. For slightly softer ride get the Sienna. I would go > with the better dealer if it was a toss up. Odyssey should be cheaper to > take home feature for feature. So far it is. The Sienna FWD, 7-pas XLE with the leather package is $31K while a quote emailed to me earlier today has the 8-pas Odyssey EX-L at 27,989. Wife likes the 8th seat in the Odyssey (as well as Honda's proven track record with previous cars we've had) more than the electric tailgate (which is included in the '07 Touring Odyssey). The EX-L is easily the best deal in the Odyssey. I drive my elderly parents around and I decided that I wanted power sliding doors for them (the right decision) and rear hatches on vans get filthy fast so I wanted a power rear door. For that you need the touring model. I regret not paying more and gettting the rear view camera and navigation (my wife has navigation on her accord and it is a pleasure). But the front and rear sensors are very helpful. >> We have a Odyssey 06 Touring model. Fine car though leather seats are a >> bit hard. Interior of Sienna reminded me of a Ford Taurus. Both are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > record with previous cars we've had) more than the electric tailgate > (which is included in the '07 Touring Odyssey). > The EX-L is easily the best deal in the Odyssey. I drive my elderly parents > around and I decided that I wanted power sliding doors for them (the right [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Avoid the Mercedes. There reliability is horrible. Good tranny and motor, but the electronics are straight out of the garbage. Wow, tough choices -- I'm not much of a fan of the Sienna, but it's not a bad car. The Mercedes is VERY nice and is a really cool car, but their reliability can't match the Toyota or the Honda. But as Seth put it above, it should last for 27 months. Keep in mind though, this means you'll have to buy another car in a little over two years, so if you're in this for the long run, the Mercedes probably wouldn't be your best choice. Overall, I'd take the Honda. I find it more comfortable, it's larger, and it'll fit eight passengers. That should be a good plus for your wife, especially if you have kids. Plus, it sounds like it's cheaper. Good luck! Overall, any of the three you choose will serve you well, it's just down to details now... > The EX-L is easily the best deal in the Odyssey. I drive my elderly > parents around and I decided that I wanted power sliding doors for them [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > navigation on her accord and it is a pleasure). But the front and rear > sensors are very helpful. We both have dash-top Garmin units. I actually like the Garmin nav better than all others. Power tailgate and rear camera would be nice, but not needed. I'll buy an after-market backup sensor that actually speaks distance remaining to object for under $200 and put it in myself. > Wife likes the 8th seat in the Odyssey (as well as Honda's proven track > record with previous cars we've had) more than the electric tailgate (which > is included in the '07 Touring Odyssey). I want an electric tailgate, but I absolutely WILL NOT suffer with run-flat tires--which is all the US Touring model is equipped with. If I really wanted a new Touring, I might seek out a Canadian model. Well, what's done is done! Got some Internet pricing from other dealers and went to my dealer (bringing the wife and kids) so I could actually drive it and the kids could sit in it (not that they were going to be part of the decision making). He came down to $28,150 and $5000 on my trade-in for a net of $23,150. The number I had in my head going in was 23,500, so I'm pleased. Going rate for my old van on eBay is $4000 to $5600, we had high mileage. Now I don't have to spend $100 having it detailed prior to auction, don't have to pay eBay fees and I pay less sales tax (8.25%) on my new vehicle as here in NY they only tax the net. We're now a dual-Honda family. >> Wife likes the 8th seat in the Odyssey (as well as Honda's proven track >> record with previous cars we've had) more than the electric tailgate [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I want an electric tailgate, but I absolutely WILL NOT suffer with > run-flat tires--which is all the US Touring model is equipped with. Because of the high cost of tire replacement? Or some other reason? > If I really wanted a new Touring, I might seek out a Canadian model. > > I want an electric tailgate, but I absolutely WILL NOT suffer with > > run-flat tires--which is all the US Touring model is equipped with. > > Because of the high cost of tire replacement? Or some other reason? The cost of tire replacement is a huge issue, and combined with the fact that I'm stuck with exactly ONE brand/model of tire--that's unacceptable. Nokian WR is probably the best passenger car tire you can buy, for overall comfort and safety in the widest range of conditions including severe winter/snow duty. I don't want a crummy OEM-specific Michelin tire that's crappy in the winter and merely OK in the summer, especially when it costs $500/tire installed. >> > I want an electric tailgate, but I absolutely WILL NOT suffer with >> > run-flat tires--which is all the US Touring model is equipped with. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The cost of tire replacement is a huge issue, and combined with the fact > that I'm stuck with exactly ONE brand/model of tire--that's unacceptable. That's what I figured. IN the almost 20 years we've been together she's had a total of 1 flat. > Nokian WR is probably the best passenger car tire you can buy, for > overall comfort and safety in the widest range of conditions including > severe winter/snow duty. I don't want a crummy OEM-specific Michelin > tire that's crappy in the winter and merely OK in the summer, especially > when it costs $500/tire installed. Dealer is gonna get me an extra set of rims (from other buyers who upgraded from stock) so I'm gonna throw snows/winter tires on those and swap each season. > Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I no > longer trust. 2 weeks ago needed the intake manifold repaired, now last [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > week or 2? Hoping there may be some rebates or financing incentives for the > upcoming President's day weekend. I bought an Odyssey (still can't spell it) in Nov and just got back from several thousand miles to FL. I LOVE it, may be the best all-around vehicle I've ever owned. Baseline: previous car was 84 BMW 528e that I had owned for 20 years. ...BOb > Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I no > longer trust. Get rid of that thing. Our '02 Olds Silhoette (same van) started to become very trouble prone not long after getting out of warranty. To all the GM PR flaks who blame "perception" and "media bias" for their rotten image I say ... just have a look at your own records of V-6 intake manifold gasket failures and high failure rates for almost everything to do with the "U" minivans to see why so many former customers joined the Never Again Club. The three vans worth serious consideration today are the Toyota, Honda and Hyundai/Kia. John >> Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I >> no longer trust. > > Get rid of that thing. Done. Picked up the EX-L in Ocean Mist yesterday. > Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I no > longer trust. 2 weeks ago needed the intake manifold repaired, now last [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks Little late now, but... two caveats, maybe, if you were feeling luxurious; lots of people who get the electric remote doors are unhappy, because they are slow, can't be manually overridden, get stuck on pebbles and things and have to recycle themselves slowly, and won't operate if the vehicle isn't in park. (That last one seems odd to me; are there a lot of carpool moms who want to just sort of slow down in front of the school and fling the kids out the door like paratroopers?) Secondly, the runflat tires are like $250 each when it comes time to replace, and if you decide not to go that route, then you need a new set of wheels to fit "normal" tires. > Little late now, but... two caveats, maybe, if you were feeling > luxurious; lots of people who get the electric remote doors are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > down in front of the school and fling the kids out the door like > paratroopers?) They weren't any faster on the Chevy we just got rid of. And I have no problem with requiring the vehicle being in park to operate the doors. Doesn't hurt anything and may prevent an unfortunate accident. > Secondly, the runflat tires are like $250 each when it comes time to > replace, and if you decide not to go that route, then you need a new > set of wheels to fit "normal" tires. Don't have the run-flats. I think those were only part of the "Touring" model. I got a lowly EX-L. I have the run flat tires and I know I will be unhappy the day I need to buy new tires, if I get a flat and don't need to change it..... that will be a happy day. >> Been looking to get the wife a new minivan. Her '02 Venture WB-Edition I >> no [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > replace, and if you decide not to go that route, then you need a new > set of wheels to fit "normal" tires. > I have the run flat tires and I know I will be unhappy the day I need to buy > new tires, if I get a flat and don't need to change it..... that will be a > happy day. And it will be a sad day when snowy weather hits and you realize you don't even have the OPTION of buying snow tires, that you're stuck with tires that are by definition a compromise. Nokian WR are the best tires for the average sedan/minivan, and yet the Odyssey with run-flats doesn't give you the option of having them. Looks like that whole "minivan safety" thing goes right out the door there. With cell phones and roadside assistance programs everywhere, run-flat tires don't offer much if anything to the driver. The only thing they offer is to the manufacturer: they can save the weight and expense and storage area of a spare tire. When was the last time you changed a tire? I believe for me it was, let's see, 17 years ago--on an old van, and that was owned by my employer. And so what if you can drive on the run-flats? At up to 50mph for a limited time. Gee, that gets you, what--off the freeway? Then what? NOBODY can change out a run-flat; you're stuck WAITING FOR THE TOW TRUCK to take you to a freaking HONDA dealer somewhere, where you're forced to wait up to several days (yeah, that's right) for a damn tire! Or you could wait at the side of the road, safe in your vehicle, waiting for the tow truck you called with your cell phone--so he can either change the flat for you, or tow you to the nearest facility that can sell you a new tire and get you on your way. Your wife would be PISSED if you stuck her with a vehicle that, when the tire went flat, the only option was to hit the dealer and wait at least overnight to get a freaking tire changed. Yeah, she was able to drive to the next exit without damaging the rim--WHOOO HOOOO! All your points are good and given a choice I probably would not pay for the run flat tires. I live in central NC and snow is not an issue but I have noticed that wet traction is not the greatest with these tires. On the other hand, there have been many accidents here when people have been changing tires on the inadequate highways... several deaths in the last year within my tv news area..... so being able to get off the highway is an advantage of sorts. >> I have the run flat tires and I know I will be unhappy the day I need to >> buy [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > overnight to get a freaking tire changed. Yeah, she was able to drive > to the next exit without damaging the rim--WHOOO HOOOO! |
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