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Car Forum / Honda Cars / March 2007Which To Buy?
We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she wants. She will have about $5,000 (US) to spend. I lean toward something not more than 5 years old. Haven't started looking but thought I would ask this group for opinions re: a Civic. Are all Civics created equal or are there certain models/years to stay away from? Thanks for any help. > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for any help. you'll be lucky to find a civic under 5yo for $5k or less. but that's ok, because while the ones that /do/ fit budget will be older, they'll still be a good deal more reliable than a domestic the same price. that's why the 5yo's cost more. pretty much all post 88 civics are reliable and cheap to run. for handling, the 88-2000's are the best [wishbone suspension]. just make sure it's not been too badly crash damaged. be suspicious of anything where the paint looks "too new". civics are good for mileage up to 300k and beyond if well maintained. > > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > where the paint looks "too new". civics are good for mileage up to 300k > and beyond if well maintained. Thanks for the info. I have not started to shop so didn't realy have any idea as to the price range for used civics. Tell her never to fall in love with something that can not love back. Civics are great. So are Corollas, Camry's and Accords. Look for the best one for the price she can afford to pay. > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks for any help. Been there and done that. Thanks for the reminder. If granddaughter wants a civic, and an accord (for example) is a better buy, grandmother will be an obstacle that must be overcome. > Tell her never to fall in love with something that can not love back. > Civics are great. So are Corollas, Camry's and Accords. Look for the best [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Thanks for any help. > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for any help. $5k will buy you a 10 or so year old Civic here in NJ... I like them a lot but was looking at Accords for my son (I wanted a little larger car to compete with the SUV's). We ended up with a '99 Subaru Legacy with AWD that he likes a lot. Paid well under $5k for it, too... In addition to what the others have said, stay away from any car that has been 'upgraded' with aftermarket air intakes, wheels, headlight/ taillights, etc. As you'll see, Civics are very popular with the tuner crowd, but many of them have stuff added with no thought of how it will work, just how it will look (or sound). Also look for one with mechanical records, and preferably with the timing belt replaced. Dan D '07 Ody EX Central NJ USA > > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > '07 Ody EX > Central NJ USA Thanks for the good info and suggestions. I started looking at prices this morning. > > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > '07 Ody EX > Central NJ USA > We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is > talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for any help. For $5k I'd buy an american over a jap car anyday. Much better value and reliability because $5k buys you a dilapidated jap car and an american car in very good shape. Unless your daughter is a mechanic or runs a repair shop I won't advise to buy a desirable fun car for that kind of money. I suggest to get something some boring piece of junk that won't fall apart next day. Speaking of that, are 07 and 08 Civics any better than 06s reliability wise? On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:12:34 -0800, isquat wrote: >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is >> talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Much better value and reliability because $5k buys you a dilapidated > jap car and an american car in very good shape. You smoke crack, don't you? 5K buys you an older jap car that still runs longer and more reliably than the newer american scrap... > Unless your daughter is a mechanic or runs a repair shop > I won't advise to buy a desirable fun car for that kind of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Speaking of that, are 07 and 08 Civics any better than 06s > reliability wise? There are no 08 civics (or anything else). There have been no reliability problems with 06 civics. Hell, my Si is almost a year old, and there has not been a single recall for it. I don't remember ever having an American car with no recalls... > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:12:34 -0800, isquat wrote: > >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > You smoke crack, don't you? 5K buys you an older jap car that still runs > longer and more reliably than the newer american scrap... Whatever. I stand by my statement. $5k on a jap car are likely to be flushed down the drain. At least that's my experience with the jap cars in that range. Won't go there. Ever. > > Unless your daughter is a mechanic or runs a repair shop > > I won't advise to buy a desirable fun car for that kind of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > There are no 08 civics (or anything else). There have been no Yep. I stand corrected. No 08s just yet. reliability > problems with 06 civics. Hell, my Si is almost a year old, and there has > not been a single recall for it. I don't remember ever having an American > car with no recalls... I believe your Si is made in Japan and DX thru LXes are made all over the place. According to the previous posts here 06 civics were nothing but trouble. Especially with the automatic geatboxes. The don't make Si with an auto do they? My point exactly. Si is a very special car in the Civic lineup and it's reliability is not a good indicator of how DX, EX and LX fare. I suspect Honda may have cleaned up its civic act for 07. Did it? On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:09:21 -0800, isquat wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:12:34 -0800, isquat wrote: >> >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > are likely to be flushed down the drain. At least that's my > experience with the jap cars in that range. Won't go there. Ever. Your experience is clearly BS. I'd rather have a 8 year old Accord (well maintained) than a 5 year old GM, Chrysler or Ford product. Any day of the week. >> > Unless your daughter is a mechanic or runs a repair shop >> > I won't advise to buy a desirable fun car for that kind of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > is not a good indicator of how DX, EX and LX fare. > I suspect Honda may have cleaned up its civic act for 07. Did it? And yet again, you'd be wrong. My Si was assembled in Ontario, using parts from the US, Canada and Japan. The last time there was a common problem with a Honda Auto Tranny it was 02 in the Accords and Odyssey lines using a V6. I know a couple people with 06 Civics with Auto Tranny, and they have had no problems... > On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:09:21 -0800, isquat wrote: > >> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:12:34 -0800, isquat wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > maintained) than a 5 year old GM, Chrysler or Ford product. Any day of > the week. My experience might be BS but I can assure you that the money flushed the drain on my old Subaru were very real. No old used cars for me jap or otherwise thank you very much. The reliability is way overhyped. > > is not a good indicator of how DX, EX and LX fare. > > I suspect Honda may have cleaned up its civic act for 07. Did it? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 02 in the Accords and Odyssey lines using a V6. I know a couple people > with 06 Civics with Auto Tranny, and they have had no problems... You have a representative sample don't you? And I have $10k flushed on a 7 y.o. Legacy that I paid $7k for. Then when I was shopping for a car three years ago I stop by a Honda dealer to see what they had. Well, they had a 3-4 y.o. civic with 50-60k miles on it and the dealer wanted $9600 or so for it. $10k for a stinky piece of "certified" junk with a half the juice taken out of it? It was probably due for a timing belt and gawd knows what else. I went straight to the Mazda dealer and bought a 1 y.o. Protege with 3k on odometer. Very clean and no stench. Granted, Civic has a better shifting tranny and a smooth motor to match but I feel that I got a much better value (and unlike Corolla the car is a hoot to drive) If I were to replace my car and I were in snowbelt I'd get a new Civic Si. A used one? Given the depreciation rates for Hondas: no bloody way! I'm not a complete moron. Used Hondas (Toyolets and Subarus too) are WAY overpriced. So I stand by my recommendation to OP to look elsewhere for a used car. Just my $.02. On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:46:39 -0800, isquat wrote: > My experience might be BS but I can assure you that the money flushed > the drain on my old Subaru were very real. No old used cars for me jap > or otherwise thank you very much. The reliability is way overhyped. SNIP > Just my $.02. Ahh, I see... So you are in a Honda newsgroup complaining about civics because you feel you paid too much for your Subaru. Good logic... > My experience might be BS but I can assure you that the money flushed > the drain on my old Subaru were very real. No old used cars for me jap > or otherwise thank you very much. The reliability is way overhyped. You're badmouthing Honda based on your experience with Subaru. That makes no sense what-so-ever. > <isq...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You're badmouthing Honda based on your experience with Subaru. That > makes no sense what-so-ever. I was explaining to the OP that there are better deals and that for $5k he can get a car in better shape if he shops elsewhere. I don't have a problem if he buys a new Civic but a used one is not a good value that's all. I think I explained already that CIvic Si is on the list of my protege replacements along with RX-8 and EVO. (Mazdaspeed 3 won't cut it for me). In case you wonder what I'm doing on this NG in the first place. > I was explaining to the OP that there are better deals and that > for $5k he can get a car in better shape if he shops elsewhere. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > along with RX-8 and EVO. (Mazdaspeed 3 won't cut it for me). > In case you wonder what I'm doing on this NG in the first place. From the experiences I have had over the years with any of the BIG 3 companies products, there is no way that any of them come close to being better than a Honda. I have owned GM and Ford vehicles that have more rattles, squeaks and shakes than a ten year old Honda. >> I was explaining to the OP that there are better deals and that >> for $5k he can get a car in better shape if he shops elsewhere. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I have owned GM and Ford vehicles that have more rattles, squeaks and > shakes than a ten year old Honda. I got rid of a Saturn (LS2) after 2 1/2 years 'cause of the rattles and noises it was making. And it was only book valued at $8k by that time, after having spent $21k for it new. I hear the Aura is much better, but I'll let someone else risk their money. -- Mike Smith > My experience might be BS but I can assure you that the money flushed > the drain on my old Subaru were very real. No old used cars for me jap > or otherwise thank you very much. The reliability is way overhyped. Well, you're the poor sap who bought a used Subaru. Hondas and Toyotas are much more reliable. Nissans are more like VWs - they'll last a long time too, but demand careful maintenance. -- Mike Smith On 3/2/07 10:38 PM, in article 12uhuus5j7l371a@news.supernews.com, "Mike Smith" <mike_UNDERSCORE_smith@acm.DOT.org> wrote: >> My experience might be BS but I can assure you that the money flushed >> the drain on my old Subaru were very real. No old used cars for me jap [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > Mike Smith Where did you get that tidbit? I have found the opposite to be true. The Hondas need more tlc than the Nissans. My Nissans (6 and counting) have all required less maintenance than my Hondas. Their ABS doesn't fail if you don't change the brake fluid every two years, their transmissions don't fail if you don't change the tranny fluid every two years, etc. > Where did you get that tidbit? I have found the opposite to be true. The > Hondas need more tlc than the Nissans. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > two years, their transmissions don't fail if you don't change the tranny > fluid every two years, etc. Brake fluid deteriorates as does transmission fluid. It only makes sense to change fluids to prolong the life of the machinery. On 3/3/07 8:32 AM, in article lGfGh.2690$Du6.2230@edtnps82, "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote: >> Where did you get that tidbit? I have found the opposite to be true. The >> Hondas need more tlc than the Nissans. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Brake fluid deteriorates as does transmission fluid. It only makes sense > to change fluids to prolong the life of the machinery. Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas. In fact, unlike Honda, changing brake fluid is not on the maintenance list for any of the Nissans and changing transmission fluid is only by condition, not time or mileage. > Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't > matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas. But it matters to people who perform preventative maintenace on their vehicles. > In fact, unlike Honda, changing brake fluid is not on the maintenance > list > for any of the Nissans and changing transmission fluid is only by > condition, > not time or mileage. Just because Nissan forgot to include it on heir 'list' doesn't mean that it doesn't have (or shouldn't) be changed. > Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't > matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > condition, > not time or mileage. I should add that I am the manager for a truck fleet (all automatic transmission equipped), the transmission fluid and filtres are replaced every year as part of the fleet's preventative maintenance program. >> Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't >> matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > transmission equipped), the transmission fluid and filtres are replaced > every year as part of the fleet's preventative maintenance program. what's that based on? analysis? manufacturer spec? > what's that based on? analysis? manufacturer spec? Common sense, really. Since implementing this procedure, transmission problems and failures have ceased to occur. The replacement of the transmission fluid and the filtres cost in the range of $300.00 to $400.00, much less expensive than repairing or replacing an Allison transmission in a large truck. >> what's that based on? analysis? manufacturer spec? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > much less expensive than repairing or replacing an Allison transmission in a > large truck. i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the lower failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed anything in their transmissions? and what was the failure mode? metal fatigue for instance is not known to be influenced by oil filter cleanliness. clutch life isn't rally affected by it either. operation tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission. > i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the lower > failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not > necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission. In the past the transmission fluid and filtres hadn't been changed except when the transmissions displayed problems (not shifting correctly, jumping in and out of gear). Once I implemented the yearly changes, there have been no further issues with any of the transmissions. The down time that was experienced in the past was a killer on the schedules. They are specialized trucks and one can't rent replacements from Ryder, so they have to be working properly every day, all day long. >> i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the lower >> failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > specialized trucks and one can't rent replacements from Ryder, so they have > to be working properly every day, all day long. ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them. this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions. > ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them. > > this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the > result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance > schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with > you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions. I know what you're saying, but we don't live in an ideal world <g>. Doing what I did was the logical step towards solving the problem(s), with Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a grand when looking for the answer. >> ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a > grand when looking for the answer. but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem. from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service feedback as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody bothers to let the design team know [not the service tech] that their filters clog outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in san francisco, a number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by auto makers so we have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in taxi livery charging up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills, etc. they do this so they can install "black box" data recorders in them and find out how their vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly city. they do it in las vegas too for heat. if they have the data, they can design accordingly. no data, inadequate design. > but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should > have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > vegas too for heat. if they have the data, they can design accordingly. > no data, inadequate design. I do understand what you are saying, but a small fleet of trucks doesn't seem to draw their attention. I would think that one truck having problems with their product would garner attention, but not yet. >> but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should >> have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > seem to draw their attention. I would think that one truck having problems > with their product would garner attention, but not yet. it's also possible, depending on their business model, that they don't want to resolve the issue - either a local or corporate decision. when i was a pup at university, one of my professors did some consulting work with one of the big auto manufacturers to help them limit the life of their transmissions via metal fatigue. [it's a very hard technical problem because things tend to either break right away, or last forever.] but the point is, life limitation is very much on the agenda in certain situations. i'm not sure it would be for commercial applications, at least from a corporate standpoint, but you may have been up against local sales quotas, and failures are a sales opportunity. > it's also possible, depending on their business model, that they don't > want to resolve the issue - either a local or corporate decision. when i [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > least from a corporate standpoint, but you may have been up against local > sales quotas, and failures are a sales opportunity. All true. On 3/3/07 1:50 PM, in article nkkGh.3242$cE3.3113@edtnps89, "Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote: >> Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't >> matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > transmission equipped), the transmission fluid and filtres are replaced > every year as part of the fleet's preventative maintenance program. Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of car owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less, not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have specified something. I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does. > I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to > manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books > to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does. And the end result is that Hondas experience less non-routine problems than Nissans do. On 3/3/07 10:12 PM, in article 1wwlhu5vswi03.dlg@hightech.misfit, "High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to >> manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books >> to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does. > > And the end result is that Hondas experience less non-routine problems than > Nissans do. I really haven't seen that result on the ones I've directly experienced. Given my limited experiences (6 Hondas and 6 Nissans over about 18 years), I have to say the vote goes in the other direction. The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle body cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30). With the Hondas, we've had ABS systems fail on two out of two mid 90's cars ('95 Integra & '96 Odyssey) and one transmission failure ('00 TL). These cars were well maintained with brake fluid changes and transmission fluid changes according to the published schedules. Clearly design flaws. Honda made good on the transmission, but they never owned up to the ABS problems on those cars. > The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the > occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed > cleaning/reseating (plagues the '02 Pathfinder) and periodic throttle body > cleaning ('91 240sx and '96 I30). It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid. A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble. >> The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the >> occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid. > A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble. One of the most troublesome cars I've ever had was an '85 300ZX. There were problems related to poor maintenance, especially the use of straight water in the cooling system (I violated my rules for used car standards because I lusted after the car). But the real killer was in the electrical system. At 17 years and 150K miles it was developing new intermittents faster than I could track them down. A few years before, an intermittent connector on the ignition coil caused it to die half a dozen times a day for two months. The first month it didn't even stay dead a minute at a time... very frustrating. Mike On 3/4/07 6:51 PM, in article 1fy7qikgxgl2m.dlg@hightech.misfit, "High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> The only non-routine problems I've treated on Nissans have been the >> occasional engine compartment electrical connector that needed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It's the newer Nissans that are crap. Older Nissans were much more solid. > A friend of mine put over 200,000 miles on a '90 NX with little trouble. My daughter's daily driver is a '91 240sx. Non-routine maintenance costs on this 16 YO car so far have only been a starter, a window motor and one fuel injector, basically next to nothing. The electrical ghosts in the '02 Pathfinder are irritating. If not for the fact that I do my own car maintenance this sort of thing could get very expensive and frustrating very easily. I don't think I'm ready to move it all the way to the category of crap, but I have to agree with you that it does seem to be a step down in apparent quality from the older ones. Compared to the transmission defect in my similar vintage '00 Acura TL though, it still comes out ahead. > Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of > car > owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less, > not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have > specified something. True enough. > I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to > manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books > to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does. I'll agree with you on this partly. I have a friend who purchased his Nissan within a week of me purchasing my Honda. He does less than 70% of the preventative maintenance that I do and he's had more problems than I have experienced with my last three Honda vehicles. On top of that, three years into our purchases his Nissan has a fair amount of rust on his gas tank and the floor of the car, as well as a number of mechanical failures.My Honda had none of these problems. Preventative maintenance is the key. >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She >> is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Speaking of that, are 07 and 08 Civics any better than 06s > reliability wise? At $5K either a Japanese or American make can be a good deal, but either will certainly need some attention in the years to come. Depending on where you live, it can be hard to find a decent Honda or Toyota for $5K that is less than seven or eight years old. With the American makes 5 years is reasonable. Definitely ask about specific cars (model and year) on the appropriate newsgroups. The common experiences are going to be typical of what you can expect and you will get warnings to check on various things. Ignore those at your own risk! One last word - if the engine uses a timing belt (and most engines from the years you are looking at do) expect it to need changing immediately. Unless you can get help from a serious DIYer expect to pay in the $500 range for that. Okay - my own prejudice... I don't like the reliability of Dodge/Chrysler used cars. Mike > >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She > >> is > >> talking Honda Civic. [snipped] > At $5K either a Japanese or American make can be a good deal, but either > will certainly need some attention in the years to come. Depending on where [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mike Thanks for your input. I have just started looking at prices and looks like she might have to spend more than planned. >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is >> talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > For $5k I'd buy an american over a jap car anyday. Your bias is evident in your use of an ethnic slur in your reply, making your opinion even more worthless than most. > isq...@gmail.com wrote: > >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Your bias is evident in your use of an ethnic slur in your reply, making > your opinion even more worthless than most. Whatever. I owned three japanese cars and one american. I like my japanese cars. But I have to give it to the americans that the car was 1. rattle free 2. did not need any major repairs 3. pulled like a locomotive All three of my jap cars rattle. All three came with wimpy engines and one out of three was a total disaster maintenance wise. So you opinion be as it may I should say that there is a lot of things to like japanese econoboxes for, but reliability is not one of them for sure. What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are the Japs even Hondas? Or are we comparing 80s Civics to an '07 Cadillac or Lincoln? > What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are > the Japs even Hondas? Or are we comparing 80s Civics to an '07 > Cadillac or Lincoln? 02 Legacy with 92k miles to 03 Taurus with 95k miles. The former expired the engine at 166k while the latter made it to the same mileage needing no major repairs. I don't think I spent over $1k over 70k miles of the taurus. Fair enough? With one driven wheel civics are simpler and probably way more reliable than subarus, but still not indestructible as the prices for the used ones would suggest. Repeat after me: used jap cars are WAY overprices compared to the american cars. Ironically, the reverse is true for new cars. I can't think of any american car for under $45k that is a good value when new. On Mar 6, 7:57 pm, isq...@gmail.com wrote: > > What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are > > the Japs even Hondas? Or are we comparing 80s Civics to an '07 > > Cadillac or Lincoln? > > 02 Legacy with 92k miles to 03 Taurus with 95k miles. er, 92 and 93: I don't drive THAT much :-) > The former expired the engine at 166k while the latter > made it to the same mileage needing no major repairs. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > new cars. I can't think of any american car for under $45k > that is a good value when new. On Mar 6, 10:57 pm, isq...@gmail.com wrote: > > What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are > > the Japs even Hondas? Or are we comparing 80s Civics to an '07 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > new cars. I can't think of any american car for under $45k > that is a good value when new. OK, that cleared a lot up. I agree. Used Japanese cars are overpriced, perhaps due to the stereotype of the American cars. And I also agree with your statement on new cars -- but I do have a soft spot for the big rear-wheel-drive Crown Vics/Grand Marquis. A 1996 Merc Grand Marquis Bayshore is my current daily driver! > On Mar 6, 10:57 pm, isq...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > big rear-wheel-drive Crown Vics/Grand Marquis. A 1996 Merc Grand > Marquis Bayshore is my current daily driver! I forgot about those. They probably are indispensible to cop due to ability to withstand abuse better than the japs. I can't picture cops going over curbs at any decent speed in accord. Not to mention that a police turn in an fwd car would be an interesting feat to watch :-) But I can't picture myself in a crown vic (except maybe in the back after having too much fun in my jap cars :) Solstice probably would not have been bad if it were not so heavy. Good enough for midwest I guess. > OK, that cleared a lot up. I agree. Used Japanese cars are overpriced, > perhaps due to the stereotype of the American cars. That reminds me of when a lady friend asked me for advise when buying a new car in 1994. She liked both the Taurus and Honda Accord which cost a bit more, but she told me the Honda dealer told her the Taurus would be worth much less in 3 years. I asked her how long she intended to keep the car, she replied about 10 years. Then I said there will be little difference in value. She bought the '94 Taurus which has served her very well and which she still drives daily. >> OK, that cleared a lot up. I agree. Used Japanese cars are overpriced, >> perhaps due to the stereotype of the American cars. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > She bought the '94 Taurus which has served her very well and which she > still drives daily. 1994 Accord EX $2736 1994 Taurus LX $754 These are the current private-party values for those 2 cars. The Honda is still worth significantly more. If she were to trade in her Ford right now, she'd get a paltry $323 for it from the dealer. > > In article <1173278935.720069.265...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > is still worth significantly more. If she were to trade in her Ford right > now, she'd get a paltry $323 for it from the dealer. I think she couldn't care less. Old people usually have a good idea how hard money are to get (for most people anyway) and are pretty stingy as a result. For her probably it matters only if she can get another 5 or 10 years out of it. Won't be surprised if she could. Heck, my old boss has a 10 y.o. taurus that was stinking (literally) pretty badly and despite making about $1/4mil (US) a year among himself and his wife he just could not let go. His secretary is driving LS400 though :-D On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:57:35 -0800, isquat wrote: >> What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are the >> Japs even Hondas? Or are we comparing 80s Civics to an '07 Cadillac or >> Lincoln? > > 02 Legacy with 92k miles to 03 Taurus with 95k miles. The former expired > the engine at 166k There's a maintenance schedule in the book. You were supposed to change the timing belt at 120K. > while the latter made it to the same mileage needing no > major repairs. I don't think I spent over $1k over 70k miles of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cars. Ironically, the reverse is true for new cars. I can't think of any > american car for under $45k that is a good value when new. > On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:57:35 -0800, isquat wrote: > >> What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > There's a maintenance schedule in the book. You were supposed to change > the timing belt at 120K. My nightmare of a car had nothing to do with the timing belt. Did I mention timing belt anywhere? You think with $10k dumped into the car I would've tried to save pennies on the timing belt? On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:39:55 -0700, isquat wrote: >> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:57:35 -0800, isquat wrote: >> >> What were the three Japanese cars and what was the American car? Are [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > mention timing belt anywhere? You think with $10k dumped into the car I > would've tried to save pennies on the timing belt? Well, most people who kill their Hondas do so by not changing the timing belt when called for. I figured you probably ignored the belt and ruined the engine. But I now see you came up with a more ingenious way to kill what should have been a bullet-proof car... On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:12:34 -0800, isquat wrote: >> We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She >> is talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > For $5k I'd buy an american over a jap car anyday. Much better value and > reliability Isn't this an oxymoron? > because $5k buys you a dilapidated jap car and an american car > in very good shape. Bull. I bought a 1995 Toyota Tercel in 2001 for $1400 and sold it in 2004 for $1400 with 130,000 miles on it and PLENTY of life left in it. Car was in near mint condidiotn, it had a dent in the door, ran like a top and got 44 MPG with an AT. I needed to sell it to get the money to buy a Supra. If you look hard and long enough, you can find deals. > Unless your daughter is a mechanic or runs a repair > shop I won't advise to buy a desirable fun car for that kind of money. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Speaking of that, are 07 and 08 Civics any better than 06s reliability > wise? >We are in the USA. Granddaughter is looking to buy her first car. She is >talking Honda Civic. Don't know why, but she believes that is what she [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Thanks for any help. Five grand might be enough to lease a base model *new* Civic for three years, full warranty coverage. Or maybe lease a three year old Civic from a dealer for three years, fancy model. J. |
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