 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Honda Cars / March 2007Born suckers
As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad faith and trading unfairly. This is from a newspaper article ( http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=9be471d3-8ddb-449c-95d4 -50eb643037a5&k=21038 ) Here is the take away from this article... "Hargrove said four million vehicles were shipped into North America last year, many from countries that don't allow foreign cars to be sold in their markets. He took special aim at Japan for tariff and other barriers. "One story is that if you buy an import, right away your income tax is audited," Hargrove said, adding that inspection processes are another way foreign vehicles are kept out of Japan." It is bad enough that the US guarantees their security at great cost while they build and ship cars from their countries (Japan, Korea specifically) while undermining the North American economy by blocking access to their markets. Where does fair trade become part of the purchasing decision? IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. Really simple.... > As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and > Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Where does fair trade become part of the purchasing decision? If the "American" companies offered what I wanted, without raping me in the wallet, I would have bought one of those. As it was, the *ONLY* truck that had what I needed was my Tundra..... and it was made in the USA. > IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the > foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> >> Where does fair trade become part of the purchasing decision? > If the "American" companies offered what I wanted, without raping me in the > wallet, I would have bought one of those. As it was, the *ONLY* truck that > had what I needed was my Tundra..... and it was made in the USA. that's the irony of the op's dumb-a.s trolling. japanese companies manufacture quality vehicles here, using locally sourced components. domestics manufacture crap, in mexico and wherever, and use chinese components. and they over-charge. and they cut corners on dangerous stuff like red rear turn signals. then they whine about losing market share! must be run by sociopaths. >> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the >> foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> >>> Where does fair trade become part of the purchasing decision? > must be run by sociopaths. "must be run by sociopaths."....jim beam most likely run by bankers and the UAW instead of auto companies.................kjun >> If the "American" companies offered what I wanted, without raping me >> in the wallet, I would have bought one of those. As it was, the *ONLY* [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > stuff like red rear turn signals. then they whine about losing market > share! must be run by sociopaths. Let's hear it for the greed, of the manufactures, and labor unions...  SignatureTom - Vista, CA > that's the irony of the op's dumb-a.s trolling. japanese companies > manufacture quality vehicles here, using locally sourced components. > domestics manufacture crap, in mexico and wherever, and use chinese > components. and they over-charge. and they cut corners on dangerous > stuff like red rear turn signals. then they whine about losing market > share! must be run by sociopaths. The components they buy are from the same parts companies. Magna is one of the larger parts companies. Magna is Canadian, but produces parts around the world. American parts company Delphi (ex of GM) gets most of their parts outside the USA. My '95 Chrysler had an original ignition switch used by at least 3 companies, based on the 3 parts numbers on it. One non Chrysler # was that of a popular German car company. Most make or buy parts made in Mexico. My '80 Chrysler had Mexican wheels. My '01 Sebring had a blower resistor made in Mexico and I believe it's 2.7L engine is from Mexico. Lastly some Japanese companies also manufacture in Mexico. It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want. Major manufacturer quality and prices, regardless of their stripe, is now very similar. > It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want. Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I challange you to go to any new car lot and try to find a *BASIC* transportation car, or truck or van. You won't find one, they are not being made or kept on the lot. Why should they when the models that have the "luxury" packages on them command a much higher prices and profits. When I bought my Tundra, it was the only truck that had the cloth seats I needed without having to spend an extra $10,000 for a luxury package*JUST* for the cloth seats, and also lose the engine/transmission that I needed. > Major manufacturer quality and prices, regardless of their stripe, is > now very similar. Maybe for the "big 3" >> It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want. > > Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles > that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I agree. My favorite cars were Corollas from the 70's and 80's, with very few creature comforts. My Scion has a lot of bells and whistles, but has that minimal feel nonetheless. My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would be without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it! > My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would be > without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it! Todays cars are much heavier than in the past. Things like increased body stiffness, 6 spd transmissions, huge tires and multi valve engines add a lot of weight. >> My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would be >> without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it! > Todays cars are much heavier than in the past. Things like increased body > stiffness, 6 spd transmissions, huge tires and multi valve engines add a > lot of weight. The Supra is an '88, but has the Sport Roof! Weighs in at an impressive 4400 lbs!!! No pushing this thing if it breaks down! Wrongggggg. . Check the frame (if it has one) for the thickness of the steel. How much plastique did you see in older cars? Christ they even had metal dashboards. And let's talk about new vehicle's bumpers.... if they have one. New cars are much lighter than those from the 60's, 70's or even 80's. : > My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would be : > without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it! : Todays cars are much heavier than in the past. : Things like increased body stiffness, 6 spd transmissions, huge tires : and multi valve engines add a lot of weight. > Wrongggggg. . Check the frame (if it has one) for the thickness of the > steel. How much plastique did you see in older cars? Christ they even had > metal dashboards. And let's talk about new vehicle's bumpers.... if they > have one. New cars are much lighter than those from the 60's, 70's or > even 80's. That is moslty mandated by Cafe standards rather than the market. But, losing weight means better economy... > : > My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would > : > be without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it! > : Todays cars are much heavier than in the past. Things like increased > : body stiffness, 6 spd transmissions, huge tires and multi valve engines > : add a lot of weight. > > It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want. > > Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles > that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I challange you > to go to any new car lot and try to find a *BASIC* transportation car, or > truck or van. Yes many want to buy all the bells and whistles, but not me. I don't want basic either, but certainly not the latest toys such as GPS, DVD player or even a sun roof. I just want a mid or slightly smaller sized station Wagon, similar to the Subaru Trooper in size. The big 2.5, Toyota and others don't make them anymore. VW and Volvo do, but UGH! I just noticed that the new Ford Focus no longer comes in a SW style, which will be noticed here where the Focus SW has been a big seller. > If the "American" companies offered what I wanted, without raping me in > the wallet, I would have bought one of those. As it was, the *ONLY* truck > that had what I needed was my Tundra..... and it was made in the USA. Pay careful attention to the next Tundra commercial you hear... "...ASSEMBLED in America..." >> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, >> the foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> >>> Where does fair trade become part of the purchasing decision? On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:53:31 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote: >> If the "American" companies offered what I wanted, without raping me in >> the wallet, I would have bought one of those. As it was, the *ONLY* truck [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >"...ASSEMBLED in America..." I just looked at a Tundra on display - 80% American Parts Content. The last 20% is probably the EFI Computer, Radio, and such like. It would cost several hundred million to build an EFI Computer plant in the USA, some very expensive production machinery. There are a lot of "American Cars" out there with 10% American content or less, made in Mexico at a Maquiladora plant. By that logic, the Tundra IS an American Truck. --<< Bruce >>-- Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than buyers that chose Toyotas LOL mike > IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the > foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad >> faith and trading unfairly. > Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better > that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than > buyers that chose Toyotas LOL > > mike Tell you what, Mike. End of the year, go to a Toyota dealer and count the leftovers. Then go to a Ford, GM, or Chrysler dealer and do the same. Shoot...in 2005 when I was working for a Toyota/Licoln-Mercury/Chrysler dealer, we had PLENTY of 2004 Chryslers, a few 2004 Mercurys (we even had a 2001 Grand Marquis!) a *bunch* of Lincoln LS's (which I thought was a nice car...) and a handful of Jeeps. Do I need to tell you how many Toyotas were left over? >> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, >> the foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad >>> faith and trading unfairly. He said foreign car companies, not specifically Toyota. As it is, Toyota is about to overtake GM on their own turf and Ford is spiraling down the drain with record losses. I know a person who bought a new Corvette and kept it exactly one year. It made numerous trips to the dealership for repairs, which were covered under warranty, but kept the car in the shop for a full month out of the 12 that he owned it. This is GM's flagship sport scar, and they can't even get that right. Really, name just one car, (not truck), from the top 3 U.S. auto makers that doesn't have a similar but much better foreign offering. Pat > Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better > that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than buyers [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>Really simple.... > He said foreign car companies, not specifically Toyota. As it is, Toyota > is about to overtake GM on their own turf and Ford is spiraling down the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Really, name just one car, (not truck), from the top 3 U.S. auto makers > that doesn't have a similar but much better foreign offering. I'll give you 2 Mustang GT Ford GT >> He said foreign car companies, not specifically Toyota. As it is, Toyota >> is about to overtake GM on their own turf and Ford is spiraling down the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'll give you 2 > Mustang GT Nissan 350Z > Ford GT Acura NSX > This is GM's flagship sport scar LOL! Was this a Freudian? It sure works! >>This is GM's flagship sport scar > > LOL! Was this a Freudian? It sure works! Haha, I think so, it wasn't consciously intended. That is pretty good, I must admit, my best typo so far. Pat >>>This is GM's flagship sport scar >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Pat LOL! <BSEG>! > Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better > that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than > buyers that chose Toyotas LOL > > mike As I said in other posts, if the "Big 3" offered what I wanted, I would have bought one of theirs instead of my Tundra. > Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better > that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than > buyers that chose Toyotas LOL > > mike Using your line of reasoning, liberals have a better "product" than the conservatives. "Proof" is that they were voted in as the majority. >Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better >that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than buyers >that chose Toyotas LOL > >mike Hey, Mike, maybe you haven't heard but since you were last posting here Ford is flirting with becoming the #4 automaker. It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that they will be passed by Toyota next year if not this year. GM still outsells Toyota but their market share has been eroding for the last 30 years. Toyota's share is increasing rapidly as, to a lesser extent, is Honda's. If recent trends were to continue for the next four years, the 2010 sales leaders would be Toyota, GM, Daimler-chrysler, Honda, Ford in that order. >> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the >> foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad >>> faith and trading unfairly. > GM still outsells Toyota but their market share has been eroding for > the last 30 years. Toyota's share is increasing rapidly as, to a > lesser extent, is Honda's. If recent trends were to continue for the > next four years, the 2010 sales leaders would be Toyota, GM, > Daimler-chrysler, Honda, Ford in that order. Nope! Toyota, GM, Honda, Ford, Chrysler,,,...........,,,, Daimler. >Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better >that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than buyers >that chose Toyotas LOL Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US, It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been the top seller. Elliot Richmond Itinerant astronomy teacher >>Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are better >>that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been > the top seller. Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap. If you want to see how the Michigan 3 would do without rental sales, look at how they are doing now. They are decreasing their sales to rental companies. Ford is expected to lose it place as #2 this year in the US market, and Toyota's car sales are nearly that of GM's. Jeff > Elliot Richmond > Itinerant astronomy teacher >>> Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are >>> better [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used > ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap. it's almost /worth/ buying a taurus if it's cheap enough. rental companies were buying them at 50% off list. and selling them at 30% - 40% off list. and they'd had their guts flogged out in between. great deal for the rental companies. which is why they bought them. > If you want to see how the Michigan 3 would do without rental sales, > look at how they are doing now. They are decreasing their sales to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Elliot Richmond >> Itinerant astronomy teacher > Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used ones > with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap. My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after 105k low cost miles. >> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used >> ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap. > My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after > 105k low cost miles. They were decent cars if you maintained them. I need a wagon or a van. I have a really nice Mazda 626 Winter beater, but I would like a Subaru AWD wagon, or a Toyota Corolla All-Trac, but a decent Sable or Taurus would make the list, too... My preferences are: Toyota, then Subaru, then Ford. Actually, Ford kinda ranks higher than Subaru, but I like AWD without having to drive an SUV... > I need a wagon or a van. I have a really nice Mazda 626 Winter beater, but > I would like a Subaru AWD wagon, or a Toyota Corolla All-Trac, but a > decent Sable or Taurus would make the list, too... > > My preferences are: Toyota, then Subaru, then Ford. Actually, Ford kinda > ranks higher than Subaru, but I like AWD without having to drive an SUV... I also have my eyes set on a SW. As for AWD I rented a Fusion AWD V6 for 24 hrs, doing a fast highway drive. It's highway handling was not as good I'm used to with FWD as it wandered on curves and required two hands to keep it on track. FWD my vehicles hold the track much better. Otherwise the Fusion impressed me and although I go to ski hills I have no need for more than FWD. As for Subaru their fuel mileage is significantly less than other similar sized vehicles. I would have about a 20% increase in fuel mileage if I went to an Outback or more for a Forester. > They were decent cars if you maintained them. > I need a wagon or a van. I have a really nice Mazda 626 Winter beater, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My preferences are: Toyota, then Subaru, then Ford. Actually, Ford kinda > ranks higher than Subaru, but I like AWD without having to drive an SUV... Sounds like we think a lot alike. No SUV's here either, I'll take a wagon or a van if I actually need to move something big, but I would like AWD on a car, especially if I move to snow country. The Taurus also had/has a great crash rating, one that was tested when a friend's Taurus got T-boned by a truck at an intersection with his elderly grandfather on the impact side. There were some injuries, nothing too serious, but it probably would have been a fatality if he had been the passenger in my car in that situation. Pat >> They were decent cars if you maintained them. I need a wagon or a van. I >> have a really nice Mazda 626 Winter beater, but I would like a Subaru [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Pat I used to sell used cars, and I had a loyal customer that used to buy all my beaters. He picked up a '94 LHS for $600, stored it for a year, and then GAVE it to me. Didn't have a use for it! He also gave me a Grand Voyager AWD van. It was rough, but had few real problems and had no heat. The engine sounded like it was going to explode any second, but ran flawlessly! (Broken rocker tower, common on the 3.3L) I finally killed it when I tried removing the water pump and broke a bunch of different bolts off. I would have just yanked the engine and put in another (I found an 80,000 mile motor for $200!) but the rack and pinion was also on the way out, so I gave it to a guy down the street that has 4 of them... > Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in > the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember > back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US, > It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by > the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been > the top seller. The rental companies still need cars, every 20K or less. I hear they aren't getting the purchase deals they used to. > IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the > foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. > > Really simple.... It's not that simple! The big 2.5 also need to build the designs we want. They don't! > IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the > foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America. > > Really simple.... I would submit that explanation is not simple but rather simplistic. Far too simplistic. There are many, many factors involved in this situation that have nothing to do with quality of product. DaveD > As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and > Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad > faith and trading unfairly. > > This is from a newspaper article ( > http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=9be471d3-8ddb-449c-95d4 -50eb643037a5&k=21038 <snip> It's real simple. Americans want a car that *works* predictably and reliably for YEARS. Many, if given that choice, would buy AMERICAN vehicles if they met the criteria. Sadly, most of the Detroit 3's offerings don't, haven't, and may not ever. It's hard to remain loyal to any company that costs you regular trips to the repair shop and hundreds or thousands of dollars. Some of us don't have that kind of scratch to throw around simply to be patriotic (putting everything else aside).... It's sad. But people will buy what works. >> As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and Canadian >> government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad faith and [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > It's sad. But people will buy what works. And if others in other countries can get what they want right at their own back door, why import junk? > >> As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and Canadian > >> government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad faith and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > And if others in other countries can get what they want right at their own > back door, why import junk? I was looking to the future and reflecting on the past. Right now although the US quality has improved it still lags the Japanese manufacturers, so there is more work to do, but the quality gap has closed, however, if it's the case that Asian car quality is that much more superior what are the Asian Manufacturers afraid of? This is just one example, there are other industries that are effected in exactly the same way, ie: unfair trading behaviour. They have a huge advantage if they can export with impunity while denying the same access to the US manufacturers. Why aren't more people outraged? I think part of the problem is the fact that the American manufacturers build for the North American market while the Asian and Europeans build for the world, and on top of that the US manufacturers have ceded large parts of the market due to lax and incompetent management, through relying on Suv's and trucks, a very complacent approach that only now is coming to fruition with massive loss of market share for the US manufacturers as both the Suv and truck markets have started to go south. Also while relying on bulk sales to the car leasing companies look good as far a volume is concerned they represent little in profit per car, again a complacent approach that is a result and responsibility of US auto makers management, I don't think you can blame the unions, as I understand it the Japanese manufactures pay the same compensation to their non-unionized members as the unionized US car manufacturer's workers. >> >> As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and >> >> Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > Japanese manufactures pay the same compensation to their non-unionized > members as the unionized US car manufacturer's workers. Couldn't have said it better myself! (or, why didn't I think of that! ;) But I think you really nailed the situation down. The only thing I will add is, while quality may be closing, I think the Japanese are starting to make cars more cheaply so as to increase profits. My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like. And, I think the Americans have come quite a ways up! I had a customer who gave me a '92 Grand Voyager and a '94 Chrysler LHS. The Voyager had some 'problems'...but just kept running and running, and the LHS was a NICE CAR! Had 160,000 when I traded it for the Scion, which I now see as a mistake. I should have held out for $1,000, or just kept it! It was well worth keeping. I kept the van because it was easier to work on, and I was using it a lot, but I sure do miss that LHS... >> On Mar 11, 5:46 pm, Hachiroku ???? <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > worth keeping. I kept the van because it was easier to work on, and I was > using it a lot, but I sure do miss that LHS... I think that car quality is a moving target, as the Big 2.5 automaker's quality inproves, so will the imports, I hope. Playing catch up like the Big 2.5 are trying to do is an uphill battle. >>> On Mar 11, 5:46 pm, Hachiroku ???? <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > quality inproves, so will the imports, I hope. Playing catch up like the > Big 2.5 are trying to do is an uphill battle. I started buying cars in the 70's, and after my Mom's first Toyota, a '72 Corona, I was sold. I was going to buy a '73 Celica, but it had been hit, so I went with a '74 Corolla 1200 (HA! It was so inexpensive, I was a junior in High School with a Brand-New car!!!) Never looked back... > but I sure do miss that LHS... I still have my '95 Chrysler LH, which is my only car. Runs and looks like new. >> but I sure do miss that LHS... > > I still have my '95 Chrysler LH, which is my only car. Runs and looks like > new. Mine had afew bumps and groans; one dent in the trunk, a leaky trans cooler line and leaky valve cover gaskets. Other than that, that car was COOL! And when I first got it, fuel economy was as good as my Scion! It started slipping the second year...I was only getting 23 MPG overall! > >> but I sure do miss that LHS... > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > COOL! And when I first got it, fuel economy was as good as my Scion! It > started slipping the second year...I was only getting 23 MPG overall! I just did a 1,000 km highway drive and my LH still gets 8.0 L/100 (US 29 mpg)at 65mph as it always has. It only has about 90K miles on it. I've treated the transmission well and it shifts as new. The 3.3L engine will probably continue as new forever. I've never had an engine that continues as new for so long. Neither the engine or engine have had any unusual maintenance problems. Even though I drive on winter roads to the ski hills the body is still excellent. Thank goodness it is standing up so well, because what is available in the car market doesn't impress me. I've set a 25% fuel mileage improvement as my objective. Some new models are interesting, but I'll give them two years to mature. I'm now trading maintenance for depreciation and don't know what I'll do with all the money I'm saving. >> >> but I sure do miss that LHS... >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I'm now trading maintenance for depreciation and don't know what I'll do > with all the money I'm saving. Hmmm...3.3L? Mine had a 3.5. Made in Canada... I was getting about 29MPG when I got it, but after a year and a half it was slipping to 22-23. Never did figure out why. I also had mine sprayed with hydraulic oil before it's first full New England winter. It was from Florida. Don't ask me how a Canadian built car wound up so far south!! Oddly enough, Ford and GM both make AWESOME rear wheel drive V8 cars for Australia, and they both make highly regarded subcompact cars for Europe. I would crap my pants with glee if we could get a Holden Commodore (GM) or a Ford Falcon over here in America. Hell, I'd even buy a euro- spec Focus. Unfortunately, for some reason, Ford and GM won't sell their best cars here and we have to put up with crap like the Mondeo and the Equinox. Blech. | Oddly enough, Ford and GM both make AWESOME rear wheel drive V8 cars | for Australia, and they both make highly regarded subcompact cars for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | their best cars here and we have to put up with crap like the Mondeo | and the Equinox. Blech. It's getting closer than you think... for a holden at least. http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=28748&vf=1 > >> >> As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and > >> >> Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in bad [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > - Show quoted text - If only Detroit's products had a 150,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty... then I might actually consider an American car again! M On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:54:49 -0700, mrdarrett wrote: >> >> >> As free traders are we being taken for suckers, with the US and >> >> >> Canadian government acquiescing with countries actively acting in [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > M My LHS was sure a good car! I really wish I hadn't given it up for a measly $600... > My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and > the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like. It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA. For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea. >> My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and >> the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like. > > It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA. Seen a Cobalt? > For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea. And I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. I worked at a Toyota dealer in '05. They are ALL getting a little 'cheaper'. BTW, test times for the tC with the 2.4 L engine are within 10ths of a second of my '88 Supra with the N/A engine when it was tested new. Good enough for me. And it even makes my 'Hachiroku' seem like a sled... > I was looking to the future and reflecting on the past. Right now > although the US quality has improved it still lags the Japanese [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > to their non-unionized members as the unionized US car manufacturer's > workers. <giggle> I've been hearing this argument for the past twenty-five years. Face it, US industry does not have the flex and forward looking process to accomplish it now nor did it have it then... JT |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.