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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2007Help! Oil Drain Bolt Stuck on '92 Accord
Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's virtually welded onto the pan. NOTHING has worked so far. Not a box wrench, not a socket head, nothing. The mechanic who used his air gun to tighten the bolt at the last tune-up has given entirely new meaning to the term "over-torqued". Any ideas on how to get this off without ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides, i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S. > Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first time), > but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's virtually welded [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides, i.e. it isn't > rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S. If you don't already have a 17MM 6-point socket, go and find a GOOD one...DON'T get the cheapest thing you can find! 1/2" drive is preferrable. Also, get a 1/2" "Breaker Bar", a socket wrench that doesn't ratchet, the longer the better. AutoZone may loan them to you (you have to deposit with your Credit Card). Try to loosen it this way. MAKE SURE THE SOCKET IS SNUG!!! If there's any play at all, try a different / different brand of socket. If you still can't break it loose, get a rubber mallet and whack the end of the breaker bar with the mallet until it starts to loosen. Good Luck! Hi: Thank you for the suggestions! I don't have Autozone in my area (to my knowledge), but PartSource is quite comparable and I'll definitely give them a try. - Paul S. On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:50:55 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote: >> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first time), >> but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's virtually welded [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Good Luck! > Hi: Thank you for the suggestions! I don't have Autozone in my area > (to my knowledge), but PartSource is quite comparable and I'll > definitely give them a try. - Paul S. If you plan to keep doing your own oil changes (which I would do if the mechanic uses a air wrench to tighten that bolt), the craftsman 1/2" breaker bar works quite well. It, and I'm sure there are comparable ones by other companies, is about fifteen to eighteen inches long which will give you plenty of user supplied torque. >> Hi: Thank you for the suggestions! I don't have Autozone in my area (to >> my knowledge), but PartSource is quite comparable and I'll definitely [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > by other companies, is about fifteen to eighteen inches long which will > give you plenty of user supplied torque. Once he gets the bolt out, he shouldn't need one! (Um, DON'T encourage him to tighten it more than needed! ;) Better investment would be a TORQUE Wrench!!! (And the spec for the oil plug...) > Once he gets the bolt out, he shouldn't need one! (Um, DON'T encourage him > to tighten it more than needed! ;) > > Better investment would be a TORQUE Wrench!!! > (And the spec for the oil plug...) Agreed on getting the bolt out only part, definitely don't use a breaker bar to tighten. Should have been more specific. >> Better investment would be a TORQUE Wrench!!! (And the spec for the oil >> plug...) >> > Agreed on getting the bolt out only part, definitely don't use a breaker > bar to tighten. Should have been more specific. I had a feeling that's what you meant! ;) Hi: Thanks for that advice. Yeah, I was going to use a torque wrench...in fact, a really great electronic (digital) one which I just got as a gift. Should be fun...a lot more fun than getting the bolt off. - Paul S. On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:10:06 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote: >>> Hi: Thank you for the suggestions! I don't have Autozone in my area (to >>> my knowledge), but PartSource is quite comparable and I'll definitely [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Better investment would be a TORQUE Wrench!!! >(And the spec for the oil plug...) Thank you...that certainly gives me a better idea what to look for. A couple more related questions: 1) since I found it easier to remove the front driver's tire to do the oil work, does anyone happen to know what the recommended torque spec is (in ft. lbs) for the lug bolts on a '92? What about an '04 accord? 2) how about the torque on the new drain plug, once I get the old one off? Thanks again. - Paul S. >> Hi: Thank you for the suggestions! I don't have Autozone in my area >> (to my knowledge), but PartSource is quite comparable and I'll [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >companies, is about fifteen to eighteen inches long which will give you >plenty of user supplied torque. > Thank you...that certainly gives me a better idea what to look for. A > couple more related questions: > > 1) since I found it easier to remove the front driver's tire to do the oil > work, does anyone happen to know what the recommended torque spec is (in > ft. lbs) for the lug bolts on a '92? What about an '04 accord? Generally, 12mm (thread size) lug nuts are 90-100 ft lbs. > 2) how about the torque on the new drain plug, once I get the old one off? Someone said 21 Ft Lbs. I do it with a wrench until the washer crushes. > Thanks again. - Paul S. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>by other companies, is about fifteen to eighteen inches long which will >>give you plenty of user supplied torque. > Thank you...that certainly gives me a better idea what to > look for. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > torque spec > is (in ft. lbs) for the lug bolts on a '92? From www.autozone.com , '92 Accord Repair Guide, 80 ft-lbs (same as my 91 Civic's). > What about an '04 accord? Try the free owner's manual resources listed at http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html > 2) how about the torque on the new drain plug, once I get > the old one > off? 33 ft-lbs, from http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/media/manuals/AccordManual/400/5-4.pdf Also the same as my 91 Civic's. Many, many thanks! - Paul >> Thank you...that certainly gives me a better idea what to >> look for. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Also the same as my 91 Civic's. > Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first > time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's > virtually welded onto the pan. NOTHING has worked so far. Not a box > wrench, not a socket head, nothing. The mechanic who used his air gun > to tighten the bolt at the last tune-up Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Ouch! Do you have ANY idea how fragile the drain bolt threads are? > has given entirely new meaning > to the term "over-torqued". Any ideas on how to get this off without > ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides, > i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! If the bolt is _that_ tight, there's a good chance the threads are distorted and are binding. In other words, the pan threads are damaged. Once you break the bolt loose, you'll probably find it won't spin off freely, and you'll have to crank it around with a wrench until it's off. If you find this happens, that butcher of a mechanic of yours needs to cough up the cost of a fix.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Hi Tegger: Thanks again for your input...you really helped me with that bad Honda battery issue (I ended up getting an Optima "Red Top" at Walmart which is working great), and now with my drain bolt saga. I know what you mean about the "ouch" part.....I have a real fear that the bozo who got trigger happy with his air gun might have cross threaded the bolt and ruined the pan. I recall all too vividly shelling out $350 USD for a new oil pan on my old Jetta back in the mid '80's when a similar event occurred at the dealership. In that particular case, I eventually got Toyota to cover my cost. Looks a bit like deja vu now with the Accord, though the last oil change was not done at Honda. I'll hope for the best and see what happens after I finally get the bolt off. - Paul S. >> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first >> time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >If you find this happens, that butcher of a mechanic of yours needs to >cough up the cost of a fix. Oh boy...LONG day. I meant to say Volkswagon, NOT Toyota!!! - Paul >Hi Tegger: Thanks again for your input...you really helped me with >that bad Honda battery issue (I ended up getting an Optima "Red Top" [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >>If you find this happens, that butcher of a mechanic of yours needs to >>cough up the cost of a fix. The good news is the drain bolt threads are pretty tough. The bad news is the ones in the pan are not. I'd guess you may need a new oil pan after getting this thing out. Who the hell uses an air gun to put a drain plug in? This is the reason I trust nobody with my car. To these guys, quick is always better than right. Add 5 minutes to get the torque wrench out, and set it. Tighten the bolt. They look at it as 5 minutes of lost earnings. BTW, I don't use a torque wrench on mine. After xx years of doing this, you can feel how tight it should be. And ALWAYS use a new crush washer on the drain plug. I'll use my 24v impact driver to take lug nuts off, but they always go back on my hand and are torqued by hand. When I get new tires, I take the wrench with me, and make the mechanic just hand tighten them. I have had too many warped rotors from the grease monkeys hitting them with an impact driver. G-Man > Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first > time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides, > i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S. Hi G-Man: Thank you for the rant....I fully agree with everything you said about not being able to trust other people with your car. Of course that's not always the case, but usually so. At least in my painful experience. I stopped by Honda and picked up an OEM drain bolt and washer...their washer just looked more substantial than the generic ones. I am a bit frightened of an impact gun since I've never used one before and don't want to warp anything. If worse comes to worse then there IS a guy about twenty miles from me whom I sure could get the bolt off, assuming everything I try with it comes to naught. - Paul S. >The good news is the drain bolt threads are pretty tough. The bad news is >the ones in the pan are not. I'd guess you may need a new oil pan after [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides, >> i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S. >Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first >time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides, >i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S. perhaps someone used thread locking material to keep it from coming loose and really didn't pound it on like that. I think the torque spec for our civic is 21ft/lb. I'll make another vote for a good 6 point socket ... and be careful. >> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first >> time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > spec for our civic is 21ft/lb. I'll make another vote for a good 6 > point socket ... and be careful. And, one last jibe, are you turning in the correct direction? Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They used left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side of the vehicles, on the wheel spindles. But, really, when we are laying down on our backs, often we become somewhat dyslexic. > Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey > > Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash > Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They used > left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side of the > vehicles, on the wheel spindles. And the driver's side lug nuts on old Chryslers. The first car I drove was my mother's '64 Dodge, and when it had a driver's wheel flat I thought I was just too weak to get it off. Then somebody told me about the threads.... Mike >> Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mike AAAARGH! I was getting a friend's 66 Chrysler 'Special' (It was an Unmarked Luxo-barge for Government use) ready for the summer and couldn't get the lug nuts off. He called and asked how it was going. Fine, except... Guess you don't know the lug nuts on that side are LHT, do you? >>> Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Guess you don't know the lug nuts on that side are LHT, do you? But it sure builds up manly muscles trying to get them loose. At least it feels that way. >>>> Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > But it sure builds up manly muscles trying to get them loose. At least it > feels that way. LOL! I knew I wasn't THAT much of a wimp! Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to get the bolt off (using a 1/2 in. drive and a steel impact socket), but I'm not sure how much PSI to start out with. 90 PSI coming out of the compressor translates to about 400 PSI out of the gun, so I guess it's about 1:4 in vs. out. Anyone happen to know how much PSI (out of the gun) I should start out with? That's assuming, of course, that it's alright to "fight fire with fire" by using the air gun at all. Thanks. - Paul S. >>> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first >>> time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >But, really, when we are laying down on our backs, often we become >somewhat dyslexic. > Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the > direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it's alright to "fight fire with fire" by using the air gun at all. > Thanks. - Paul S. I'd be eyeing the air gun at this point, too. I fear the threads in the pan are already in bad shape, and that the plug has been fastened in. I hope it isn't epoxy! The advantage of the air gun is that you are delivering straight torque rather than levering it. Even sockets want to lift unless you can apply the same amount of support as you are applying torque. As long as the impact socket is a nice fit and it can be set on straight rather than a bit cocked I'd go that way. The torque is nowhere near linear with air pressure; 40 PSI is probably a good starting point. I doubt you would even get impact action at that pressure, but you can always go up :-) If the plug is fastened in or badly cross-threaded or both, all is not lost. NAPA carries drain plugs for Hondas in single and double oversize. There are complications, but let's hope for the best. Mike Thank you Mike for your very helpful post. I have a Campbell Hausfeld compressor that goes up to 100 psi (just used it to repaint the hood of my '92 accord...THAT was difficult), so like you say it's probably best to start low with the air pressure and gradually work my way up. I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow. - Paul. >> Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the >> direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Mike > Thank you Mike for your very helpful post. I have a Campbell Hausfeld > compressor that goes up to 100 psi (just used it to repaint the hood of my > '92 accord...THAT was difficult), so like you say it's probably best to > start low with the air pressure and gradually work my way up. I'll let you > guys know how it goes tomorrow. - Paul. How did the paint come out, and what kind of gun do you have? I bought a fairly expensive Craftsman compressor (150 PSI/ 45/90CFM) for two reasons: DA sander and spray gun. The DA definitely needs it, and the best gun I can find is about 40 CFM @ 45 PSI! >>> Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the >>> direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to get [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >>Mike Hi - I used a Mastercraft gravity fed gun at 35 psi for this job. There was the whole adjustment thing with the paint feed, airflow, and spray pattern which had to be reckoned with, so I practiced for awhile in the back yard on sheet metal. This was a repaint of a rosewood brown colored hood on my '92 accord, and the OEM shade variations on the swatches were a bit tricky in terms of a good match. Especially with all the sun-related fade, since this car spent most of its life in North Carolina. Maybe a custom scan would have been better, as you can still see the shade difference on the finished hood at night under fluorescents. It's not that big of a deal, but it is noticeable if you look for it. Since it was a hood, the fenders had to be blended along with putting on new striping. I never realized the extent to which automotive painting is such a subtle skill, and it was difficult learning how to slowly build up mist-like layers of the primer and paint without going too fast. By the time I made it to the clear coat phase, I felt like I'd earned my pay. The repaint wasn't perfect, but it was a first for me in terms of body work, and I think in that capacity it turned out pretty well. As you say, there is no greater satisfaction than doing a job like this yourself...regardless of how things evolve, you never stop learning. And of course, there's always next time to do it even better! - Paul On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 17:44:21 GMT, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote: >> Thank you Mike for your very helpful post. I have a Campbell Hausfeld >> compressor that goes up to 100 psi (just used it to repaint the hood of my [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >DA sander and spray gun. The DA definitely needs it, and the best gun I >can find is about 40 CFM @ 45 PSI! > Hi - I used a Mastercraft gravity fed gun at 35 psi for this job. There > was the whole adjustment thing with the paint feed, airflow, and spray [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > how things evolve, you never stop learning. And of course, there's always > next time to do it even better! - Paul Yeah, painting is an art and requires practice. I did the doors on a Celica I had and tried to match the fade, but didn't work. The upper part of the door matched the lower (unpainted) part, but the doors looked darker than the rest of the car. Then I did three cars, a VW for the boss' friend, a pickup for the boss, and an '83 Tercel AWD Wagon. These were complete, so there wasn't any blending to do. By the time I got to my Tercel, it was fantastic. I used Urethane with a Pearl topcoat, in yellow. LOL! THe car glowed in the dark! But I drove it mostly at night in the winter, so this was a Good Thing! Urethane is great; not quite as easy as BC/CC, but when it cures you can wet sand it and buff it and the finish looks (IMHO) at least as good as a Clear Coat finish! >>> Thank you Mike for your very helpful post. I have a Campbell Hausfeld >>> compressor that goes up to 100 psi (just used it to repaint the hood of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>reasons: DA sander and spray gun. The DA definitely needs it, and the >>best gun I can find is about 40 CFM @ 45 PSI! >>Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the >>direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Mike In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air tools between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple "volume" control that is adjustable from full on to full off by a series of click stops. Sure wish such was readily available on the "civilian" market... JT Actually my air gun has an adjustment like that on it. G-Man > In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air tools > between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple "volume" > control that is adjustable from full on to full off by a series of click > stops. Sure wish such was readily available on the "civilian" market... > > JT Hi To G-Man and Everyone Else Who Was Nice Enough to Respond About My Stuck Oil Drain Bolt Issue: I finally got the bolt off today!! Hurray!! It's the simple things in life..... No, actually it was the air gun, which worked like magic at 75 psi. It's a great tool, as long as you use it to take the bolt off but not to put it on. No sign of any leaks yet with the new oil, but I'll keep watching just in case. Looks like I may have dodged a bullet. Replaced the washer, painted some anti-seize compound on the threads of the new bolt, and hand torqued it to 33 foot pounds, Thanks again! - Paul. >Actually my air gun has an adjustment like that on it. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> JT > Replaced the washer, painted some anti-seize compound on > the > threads of the new bolt, Let the fun begin. ;-) > Hi To G-Man and Everyone Else Who Was Nice Enough to Respond About My > Stuck Oil Drain Bolt Issue: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks again! - Paul. I wouldn't have guessed you'd get off that lightly, but let's celebrate victories when the fates allow! Mike Thanks, Mike...I am definitely celebrating the fact that I won't have to go through the hassle of another oil pan. I topped things off with a brand new Bosch Premium oil filter, and I'm good to go....ready for the trans-Canada highway this summer and another 185,000 miles. And speaking of miles, I am determined to take this '92 accord past the half million mark - it's an ego thing! Thanks again for your help and encouragement. - Paul >> Hi To G-Man and Everyone Else Who Was Nice Enough to Respond About My >> Stuck Oil Drain Bolt Issue: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Mike > Hi To G-Man and Everyone Else Who Was Nice Enough to Respond About My > Stuck Oil Drain Bolt Issue: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks again! - Paul. Great. Glad to hear you didn't have to shell for a new Oil Pan. What a PITA! Congrats! (A job well done feels good, doesn't it? No matter how much huffing and puffing and cursing it took along the way! ;) >>Actually my air gun has an adjustment like that on it. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> >>> JT Wow...that sounds pretty neat. I wish one were available too. - Paul >In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air >tools between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >JT This may be a similar regulator that I am familiar with. http://www.skygeek.com/5401.html JT > Wow...that sounds pretty neat. I wish one were available too. - Paul > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>JT Looks like a great idea for people who don't already have a dial type regulator on their compressor. - Paul. >This may be a similar regulator that I am familiar with. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>> >>>JT >>>Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the >>>direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to get [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > JT They are, you have to look. And they aren't cheap! >>>>Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the >>>>direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to get [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > They are, you have to look. And they aren't cheap! But they are... Under $7 for consumer version and about $12 for the professional version. JT >>>>>Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the >>>>>direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > JT I just bought my first compressor. The last place I used one of those setups was...at an Aircraft Accessories MFG, using shop air to test things like starter solenoids, etc... |
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