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Car Forum / Honda Cars / April 2007Strut tower brace on '99 Accord
My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I find a new mechanic?  Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." > My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull > the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I > find a new mechanic? yes. the weight of the car holds the towers in place. only need to remove the nuts and bolt on from what i can see. Yes On 4/7/07 1:26 PM, in article mukf13p2psv9e6cb26qijqjpnv7j1p3816@4ax.com, > My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull > the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I > find a new mechanic? On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: >yes. >Yes That's what I figured, thank you both. Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to? Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." > On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam > <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Anyone know what the strut top mounting nuts should be torqued to? not offhand, but i /do/ know that the real-deal honda workshop manual will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you can get it online at helm.com. >> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >will be the most useful single thing you ever buy for this vehicle. you >can get it online at helm.com. Well, I guess I should, but I don't intend to be its full time wrench: I just want to get the brace in this weekend. Then sway bars from Intrax next week. Then maybe H&R OE Sport springs, if need be. I'm not trying to turn the thing into something it's not, I do need to get it to turn in sharply and stop rolling over on its front tires at speed. Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX). Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." >>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Do these things even have any front sway bar as stock (LX). dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard - and honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits. as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you want looks, most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're better off spending the money on decent rubber. better yet, buy a civic or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. >>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >dude, you need to look at the oem equipment before installing >aftermarket stuff like that. these have sway bars as standard ...If it does, they're made of linguini. The car could be used to plow snow it understeers so poorly. Stiffer sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least increase in straightline ride harshness. >- and >honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than >some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits. Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day. >as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you >want looks, I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will entertain any suggestions. >most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're >better off spending the money on decent rubber. I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways. They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the chassis and tighten the roll characteristic. And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working. >better yet, buy a civic >or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. I had an Integra, 1992 3-foor LS 5-spd, from new for 13 years. I still miss it. This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable. I thank you for your input. Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." >>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > sway bars will most dramatically lessen the plow with the least > increase in straightline ride harshness. buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if you want accord running gear. >> - and >> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than >> some of these aftermarket monkeys and their "drill to fit" aftermarket kits. > > Honda didn't expect me to drive the thing 40miles a day. is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you? >> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you >> want looks, > > I do not. I want it to stop understeering like a pig. I will > entertain any suggestions. then there's something wrong with your car. you need to examine the bushings, the shocks, and most of all, steering geometry front and rear. it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy". >> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're >> better off spending the money on decent rubber. > > I think a 20mm reduction in cg and roll centers would do a world of > good, without costing me any tooth fillings over NYC highways. 1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you. 2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you. > They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the > chassis and tighten the roll characteristic. > > And the last thing I need to do is scrape the crap out of even more > expensive tires: The thing corners on the outside front sidewall. I > can only imagine what it will be like with both tires working. get the alignment set right. >> better yet, buy a civic >> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This is now the horse I rode in on, my commuter for the next few > years, and it needs to be stiffer if I'm not to be miserable. so why can't you commute in an integra? "2ner" parts are much more available. > I thank you for your input. for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but they definitely make for harsher straight line ride, and some of the aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't - particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends. bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which match the springs. for an accord, this means either using sway bars from an acura or from a prelude. aftermarket stuff is usually inappropriate and "designed" by people that don't know hondas well enough. get the steering geometry set correctly - that's thrust and front and rear toe - it's 4 wheel adjustable on the 99 accord. i have the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars. look into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use. >>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >buy why spend all this time and effort on an accord? get a prelude if >you want accord running gear. I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car. I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter. >>> - and >>> honda know more about the roll characteristics of their vehicles than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >is that a lot or a little for you? i drove 1000 miles this weekend with >my oe springed and sway-barred civic. would that be a problem for you? Not a lot (and one way), in a car that can turn. >>> as for springs, the ones you mention will lower you about 20mm. if you >>> want looks, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it's /very/ common for alignment shops to set with too much front >toe-in - it accelerates tire wear and makes the steering "easy". There's nothing wrong with the car, just miserable. It's been looked at: It plows. It wasn't engineered for me. >>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're >>> better off spending the money on decent rubber. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >1. if you can notice 20mm difference in ride height handling, god bless you. Not to be rude but, if you can't, you shouldn't be advising me. >2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at >the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you. Again, they're the last ditch option, and if they offend me I'll ditch them. >> They're only a consideration at this point anyway, after I stiffen the >> chassis and tighten the roll characteristic. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >get the alignment set right. My concern is not alignment related, it's roll stiffness related. >>> better yet, buy a civic >>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >so why can't you commute in an integra? Because I have an Accord. > "2ner" parts are much more available. There is no shortage of Accord parts for my intention. >> I thank you for your input. > >for what it's worth, i've got several different civic sway bar sets in >my garage, and i've messed about with this stuff extensively. yes, sway >bars can be great, and by and large, i'm a supporter of their use. but >they definitely make for harsher straight line ride, They have no appreciable effect on dual side bumps such as expansion joints. >and some of the >aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use >over-stiff rears and weak floppy fronts under the mis-impression that >the over-steer this causes allows them to corner faster. it doesn't - >particularly when it causes one of the rears to lift as you will see at >any race track where these kiddiez mess about on the weekends. I'm not them and that's not my intention. Do you have any direct experience with Intrax? >bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this >means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >the rears set per the book and the fronts set to zero toe. with decent >rubber, it corners like its on rails and i have stock sway bars. My car wouldn't corner on rails if I dropped onto train tracks. >look >into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect >cornering substantially. bilsteins are great for improving steering >response on the front, but your passengers will complain if they're on >the rear as they're a bit harsh. i prefer kyb agx if i need to play >with my suspension, kyb gr2's for normal road use. Bottom line: I'm "stuck" with the Accord for a couple of years. I don't enjoy it's high speed turning characteristics. I don't want to spend a fortune nor become a slave to the tool box. 1.1) Chassis brace from a TL. Forget what I paid, ~$150 1.2) Sway bars from Intrax, 27mm front, 19mm rear, existing mounting points. ~$250 plus $60labor Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs. ~$750, and should get the job done. Thanks Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." >>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > There's nothing wrong with the car, just miserable. It's been looked > at: It plows. It wasn't engineered for me. it'll still plow with sway bars if you don't address the problem. the body won't roll as much at the same time, but it'll still plow. >>>> most people won't notice 20mm. if you want handling, you're >>>> better off spending the money on decent rubber. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Not to be rude but, if you can't, you shouldn't be advising me. er, i'm speaking from experience dude. sorry if i'm not telling you what you want to hear. you'll notice the difference of the stiffer rears, but that's not the same as height-affected roll dynamics. >> 2. if you think h&r oe sport springs, which are considerably stiffer at >> the rear, are /not/ going to cost you fillings, god bless you. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > My concern is not alignment related, it's roll stiffness related. you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem, not a roll stiffness problem. sway bars can't make you corner faster because they don't keep more rubber on the road. all they can really do is affect the body roll dynamics, especially in fast transitions. >>>> better yet, buy a civic >>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Because I have an Accord. but it's big and heavy. big and heavy means poorer cornering - basic physics. >> "2ner" parts are much more available. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > They have no appreciable effect on dual side bumps such as expansion > joints. not true. almost no bump, let alone expansion joint, is same height both sides. if it's not, then the sway bar /is/ doing to affect the straight line ride. >> and some of the >> aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I'm not them and that's not my intention. so why fit aftermarket equipment? > Do you have any direct experience with Intrax? no, i have experience with a bunch of different ratings of honda and mugen sway bars. >> bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this >> means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > My car wouldn't corner on rails if I dropped onto train tracks. then something's wrong! and it isn't the sway bars. >> look >> into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I don't enjoy it's high speed turning characteristics. I don't want > to spend a fortune nor become a slave to the tool box. while you don't have to spend a fortune, you /do/ have to do work if you want to improve this vehicle. > 1.1) Chassis brace from a TL. Forget what I paid, ~$150 > 1.2) Sway bars from Intrax, 27mm front, 19mm rear, existing mounting > points. ~$250 plus $60labor prelude sh rear is 23mm - significantly stiffer. > Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs. > > ~$750, and should get the job done. > > Thanks what tires do you have? >>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > >you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem, It does Not have an alignment problem, it has new Continental tires. >not a roll >stiffness problem. sway bars can't make you corner faster because they >don't keep more rubber on the road. all they can really do is affect >the body roll dynamics, especially in fast transitions. [!] >>>>> better yet, buy a civic >>>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >but it's big and heavy. big and heavy means poorer cornering - basic >physics. It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars. >>> "2ner" parts are much more available. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >both sides. if it's not, then the sway bar /is/ doing to affect the >straight line ride. Nonsense. Sway bars do not appreciably affect straightline ride, and the mm difference between left-right side expansion joint height is imperceptible. You can't feel 20mm in ride height but 2mm on the road surface is dramatic to you? >>> and some of the >>> aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >so why fit aftermarket equipment? Because the stock fitments are not to my satisfaction. >> Do you have any direct experience with Intrax? > >no, i have experience with a bunch of different ratings of honda and >mugen sway bars. So why slag what you don't know? >>> bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this >>> means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >then something's wrong! and it isn't the sway bars. What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall. >>> look >>> into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >prelude sh rear is 23mm - significantly stiffer. ...So what? I don't car about Civics, Integras, or Preludes. >> Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >what tires do you have? Thanks for your input. Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." >>you said "it plows". that's an alignment and tire problem, > > It does Not have an alignment problem, it has new Continental tires. FWIW, I got a new F350 SD truck at work last year. It had Continental ContiTrack (sp?) tires and it had a big problem: when it hit any roughness, even a patch in the pavement, at freeway speeds the truck would shake wildly for about two seconds. I took it to Ford and they replaced all 4 tires with new identical tires... problem fixed. They said that was very common. You can easily check the tire wear. Put a strip of masking tape from sidewall to sidewall on each front tire, then drive a mile or so on reasonably straight road and look at the wear pattern on the tape. The way the tape wears is the way the tires will wear. If both outside edges are worn, the wheels are toed in too much. If both inside edges are worn, the wheels are toed out. If the wear is inconsistent from one tire to the other, or if the wear is okay and the feel is still screwy, you need to get an expert to figure out why. Camber and caster will affect the balance between stability and steering force. (Camber affects tire wear a lot less than you'd think; the tire wears like it was shaved evenly with a slight bevel - no edge wear.) Mike >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>>>>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > It does Not have an alignment problem, it has new Continental tires. who says it doesn't have an alignment problem? what are the readings from your last alignment? which model tire? [some continentals are abysmal.] >> not a roll >> stiffness problem. sway bars can't make you corner faster because they >> don't keep more rubber on the road. all they can really do is affect >> the body roll dynamics, especially in fast transitions. > > [!] sway bars affect roll, not cornering - they don't affect the contact geometry. >>>>>> better yet, buy a civic >>>>>> or integra - accords are too big heavy to be messing about with this stuff. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight > distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars. and how much wider are the bmw tires??? and what's the quality difference? and what about the 5 series? you've got to compare like with like. >>>> "2ner" parts are much more available. >>> There is no shortage of Accord parts for my intention. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Nonsense. Sway bars do not appreciably affect straightline ride, they do if the left/right bump is not exactly the same. > and > the mm difference between left-right side expansion joint height is > imperceptible. you need to drive in california some time!!! if we had millimeter differentials over here, we'd get out of the car and start kicking the tires so see if something was wrong if the road suddenly got that smooth on us. > You can't feel 20mm in ride height but 2mm on the road surface is > dramatic to you? 20mm is ~10% of total travel, and within the sag of oem. if the spring ratings are the same, you'd not notice this above a small change in tire pressure difference. and 2mm is /not/ a reasonable estimate of differential - it's more like 20mm, which you /do/ feel. >>>> and some of the >>>> aftermarket stuff is garbage. most of the ricer kiddiez for example use [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Because the stock fitments are not to my satisfaction. what's rating difference between what you're proposing and stock? >>> Do you have any direct experience with Intrax? >> no, i have experience with a bunch of different ratings of honda and >> mugen sway bars. > > So why slag what you don't know? i'm not slagging what i don't know - i'm discussing what i /do/ know. 1. oem are more precise fit than aftermarket - that i know from messing with other people's sway bars. and 2. your aftermarket bars are not going to be stiffer than oem unless they're thicker. that's why i discussed your oem options. mugen are suppliers to honda for race equipment. >>>> bottom line, use sway bars that are appropriate for the vehicle - this >>>> means appropriate to the weight distribution front and rear, and which [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall. and that's your problem - it's tires, not sway bars. there's no way that should be happening. a sway bar can't cure that - it doesn't affect the camber or scrub geometry - all it does is stop the body rolling relative to the road surface. >>>> look >>>> into shocks as well. some of the high end aftermarkets can affect [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ...So what? I don't car about Civics, Integras, or Preludes. but you want equipment that fits! the oem i cited is stiffer than that aftermarket stuff you're talking about. and civics and integras have many more "upgrade" options available than accords. >>> Then, maybe, mildly lower it with stiffer springs. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for your input. is this car on a lease? >>> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car. >>> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car >>> trader right now, and in the foreseeable future I intend to >>> performance mod a 70s Alfa and will want and need a reliable commuter. Your stock '99 Accord will probably beat the mod'd Alfa around any street course, assuming equal horsepower, and the Accord will probably have more of that, too. Newer Accords are even better, or would be on better than stock tires. You may have to learn different driving technique. Yes, the Accords are front-heavy, and that never goes away entirely, but they are generations ahead on technology, and properly driven are vastly superior to those old Alfas, which couldn't even beat the old BMWs, I presume the new BMWs are also much improved. OTOH, I've never thrown the Accords around at high speeds. I did throw my 1979 Alfetta all over the place, on its stock skinny tires. It slid around in well-balanced control, but that's NOT the same as making good time. Tire technology is much better now, among other things, than back then. What happens if you put modern tires on an old Alfa? I daresay something would crack, hear me now and believe me later. No finite element analysis then for cars, and it wasn't built or tested to those kinds of stresses. Even my 1979 was really just the very best 1959 technology available. Wait, actually I did throw around a 1999 CL-6 a bit, a few years ago. It really wasn't happy, it seemed to me, it held the road, but there were funny creakings when I stopped, that discouraged further experimentation along those lines. Yes, the Alfa was happier at that sort of thing, but did NOT hold the road as well. More fun, but worse times. >It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight >distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars. Less weight difference than that, I think. Aren't all BMW still rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50? Betcha they come with lower profile tires, too. List the numbers side by side, I have no idea which models you're thinking of. >What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall. Sounds like wrong tires. Have you tried lower profiles? What kind of turning are you doing, cranking it full over at 80mph? Hint - Accords aren't designed for that, BMWs, even street 3xx's, pretty much are (or were, I haven't followed them for 10+ years). Does anybody rebuild Accords for high-speed racing? Fast and furious Civics, sure, tho I have no idea how good or bad those really are. And you need this on your COMMUTER car? My man, I'm still an Italophile at heart, but you're never going to make an Accord handle like an Enzo, ... which seem to be cracking up here in Los Angeles at an unacceptable frequency anyhow! Better trade the '99 for an old BMW, and be ready for major disappointment at how an old Alfa compares to either. J. >>>> I have the Accord. Other than high speed cornering it's a great car. >>>> I don't have either the time or inclination to become a used car [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Your stock '99 Accord will probably beat the mod'd Alfa around any >street course, I'm not 18. >assuming equal horsepower, and the Accord will probably >have more of that, too. I'll be looking for 180 out of the 2liter Alfa, easy, really; 10.4 Borgos, hot cams, big valves, header and Webers, should sound like half a 308. Accord's at 150 out of 2.3. ...Or I may go with a G1 S2000. I'd like to do the Alfa myself, thinking a year out either way. >Newer Accords are even better, or would be on better than stock tires. I'd recommend my car highly to 98% of the public, I won't have another one when this is gone. >You may have to learn different driving technique. Yes, the Accords >are front-heavy, and that never goes away entirely, but they are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >or tested to those kinds of stresses. Even my 1979 was really just >the very best 1959 technology available. Looking for sound, feel and style, not an autocross racer. >Wait, actually I did throw around a 1999 CL-6 a bit, a few years ago. >It really wasn't happy, it seemed to me, it held the road, but there >were funny creakings when I stopped, that discouraged further >experimentation along those lines. Yes, the Alfa was happier at that >sort of thing, but did NOT hold the road as well. More fun, but worse >times. Fun is the objective, >>It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight >>distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars. > >Less weight difference than that, I think. You're right, 3000 vs 3200 on an 1999 323, but the BMW is a cloth manual seat window crank unavailable stripper at that weight, in the real world the 328's about 3500. >Aren't all BMW still rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50? Not 50/50. Very nose heavy, twitchy in the rain and useless in snow. >Betcha they come with lower profile tires, too. Rubber bands stretched over tuna cans. A significant percentage of BMW dealers' net profit derives from selling $1000 replacement wheels. >List the numbers side by side, I have no idea which models you're >thinking of. > >>What's wrong is it rolls over onto the outside front sidewall. > >Sounds like wrong tires. Have you tried lower profiles? Not an option given the roads I drive. There is truly a bathtub sized pothole on my approach to the George Washington Bridge, for two weeks now. >What kind of turning are you doing, cranking it full over at 80mph? 60-ish. Uninvolved cell-phone addled goat herders driving Town Cars, or princesses driving TSXs, are a constant hazard. >Hint - Accords >aren't designed for that, BMWs, even street 3xx's, pretty much are (or >were, I haven't followed them for 10+ years). No they were not designed for that, but they can be modded to stiffen them up. >Does anybody rebuild Accords for high-speed racing? Fast and furious >Civics, sure, tho I have no idea how good or bad those really are. American Touring Car series. >And you need this on your COMMUTER car? Yes. Greater control and predictability are elements of dynamic safety, and improve this driver's satisfaction index. >My man, I'm still an Italophile at heart, but you're never going to >make an Accord handle like an Enzo, ... which seem to be cracking up >here in Los Angeles at an unacceptable frequency anyhow! Better trade >the '99 for an old BMW, and be ready for major disappointment at how >an old Alfa compares to either. I know an Accord will never turn in like a 355, but it could be and will be a good deal sharper and more stable. Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." >>Your stock '99 Accord will probably beat the mod'd Alfa around any >>street course, > >I'm not 18. How is that relevant? >>assuming equal horsepower, and the Accord will probably >>have more of that, too. > >I'll be looking for 180 out of the 2liter Alfa, easy, really; 10.4 >Borgos, hot cams, big valves, header and Webers, should sound like >half a 308. Accord's at 150 out of 2.3. New Accords get 164 out of 2.4, and the area under the curve is much broader. And then there's the six! But glad to see you have the four. >...Or I may go with a G1 S2000. I'd like to do the Alfa myself, >thinking a year out either way. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I'd recommend my car highly to 98% of the public, I won't have another >one when this is gone. Go test drive the new model. Seriously. You can feel the improved balance in two seconds. Just so you know. >>or tested to those kinds of stresses. Even my 1979 was really just >>the very best 1959 technology available. > >Looking for sound, feel and style, not an autocross racer. I admit it, I bought the Alfa after hearing another one zip by me on the street in too low a gear, it sounded FANTASTIC! Oh, and the classy brochure! Stock Hondas have zero of that. >>Wait, actually I did throw around a 1999 CL-6 a bit, a few years ago. >>It really wasn't happy, it seemed to me, it held the road, but there [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Fun is the objective, Yah. Well, an old Car & Driver recommended boy racers go out and buy an old VW Microbus, 66hp, you can play boy racer all day long, and nobody even knows it! Me, driving in modern Los Angeles, there is no fun. Sniff. Just TMC. Sniff. >>>It's 600-800lbs lighter than a BMW 3series, about the same weight >>>distribution. The BMW comes standard with wrist-sized sway bars. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >manual seat window crank unavailable stripper at that weight, in the >real world the 328's about 3500. You talking Accord coupe? OK, that's a little lighter, but don't they street at 3200, plus or minus air and such? >>Aren't all BMW still rear-wheel drive and almost 50/50? > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >pothole on my approach to the George Washington Bridge, for two weeks >now. I had the wrong tires on my 87 Accord way back, it would practically roll off them turning the corner at 20mph. High profile, but putting on something like the then-stock Michelins that all went away. But seriously, if you want handling, sticking with high-profiles is going to be a serious limitation. >>What kind of turning are you doing, cranking it full over at 80mph? > >60-ish. Do that in LA and you're a statistic, no matter the vehicle. >Uninvolved cell-phone addled goat herders driving Town Cars, or >princesses driving TSXs, are a constant hazard. I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused. >>Hint - Accords >>aren't designed for that, BMWs, even street 3xx's, pretty much are (or [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Yes. Greater control and predictability are elements of dynamic >safety, and improve this driver's satisfaction index. I admit it, I'm older than I used to be. Time was I'd take any new car out and toss it around a few corners to see how it drifted, I learned that in (and before!) my Alfa. Now, if I have a high-speed emergency, I'm less prepared. Fortunately my car is MUCH better prepared. Looks like in five or ten years we'll have dynamic stability on new cars. In twenty we'll probably have complete autopilots, might be illegal to drive manually much after that, at least in the city. I miss the old Alfa, sort of, if not the scheduled maintenance bills. >>My man, I'm still an Italophile at heart, but you're never going to >>make an Accord handle like an Enzo, ... which seem to be cracking up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I know an Accord will never turn in like a 355, but it could be and >will be a good deal sharper and more stable. I'll just envision you doing the Lincoln Tunnel like in Men In Black. J. your best bang for the buck is front/rear anti sway bars. Suspension Techniques makes a nice set that requires no drilling, only existing bolt mounting points are used. >>>>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:06:50 -0700, jim beam >>>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > I thank you for your input. >your best bang for the buck is front/rear anti sway bars. Yes, I get that, thanks. >Suspension >Techniques makes a nice set that requires no drilling, only existing bolt >mounting points are used. I'll have a look. So far it seems Intrax is what I'm looking for, they do titanium shock sets for the F355, ffs! Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." >My mechanic is telling me he needs to compress the springs and pull >the struts to add an Acura TL strut tower brace to my Accord: Should I >find a new mechanic? Took me all of 20minutes and that's because I rewound a cassette tape during the process. The strut mount nuts aren't even used, there are two studs on each strut tower dedicated to the bar, stock Accord is a tubular bar from each tower to the cowl, the TL bar has a integrated additional tower-to-tower tube. Those four, four nuts on the cowl and a bolt mounting the fuse box to the bar, and Bob's your Uncle. Result is a palpable increase in structural rigidity and steering precision: I forget how much I paid, but the thing is great value for money. Signature"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris." |
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