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Car Forum / Honda Cars / September 2007How to tell a genuine Honda Accord (05) Bumper from After market?
I recently had an animal run into my car and it destroyed my bumper. I took my ride to the Honda dealer for repair and my insurance is Geico. I made sure that I requested an original OEM bumper. I was able to get an OEM on my windshield that cracked for no reason, so I want to make sure that the car stays with original parts unless of course "I" happen to actually cause damage due to my neglegnece. SO far, things just happen to this car that is beyond my control. Is there anything to look for as far as identifying the bumper as original OEM? It is the front bumper by the way. > I recently had an animal run into my car and it destroyed my bumper. > I took my ride to the Honda dealer for repair and my insurance is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is there anything to look for as far as identifying the bumper as > original OEM? It is the front bumper by the way. Ask the bodyshop. They will have been told by the insurance company what to use. If they've been told to use aftermarket, you can either phone Geico and try to get them to pay for an OEM bumper (good luck!), or you can top up the insurance company's money to have the bodyshop buy an OEM one. OEM is considerably more expensive than aftermarket unless you get a used one, and is considerably better quality. Used OEM is fine. If the rebar is also being replaced, make sure that's OEM as well. Aftermarket rebars are badly made. The bumper skin will assume the shape of the rebar, so if the rebar is misshapen, so will be the skin.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> I recently had an animal run into my car and it destroyed my bumper. >> I took my ride to the Honda dealer for repair and my insurance is [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > of > the rebar, so if the rebar is misshapen, so will be the skin. Well I told the Geico man I wanted OEM and he said "no problem on such a minor thing." Since the Geico man and the Honda people seem very buddy buddy, I need to know how to tell that it is OEM. I have a $250 deductable and I would have to pay out of pocket for and aftermarket one when I could buy that on my own. YOu might try asking someone in the parts department at your Honda dealer if there is a way to tell. Also if there is only one Honda dealer in your area, the bumper would probably have had to come thru him if it is original. >>> I recently had an animal run into my car and it destroyed my bumper. >>> I took my ride to the Honda dealer for repair and my insurance is [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > deductable and I would have to pay out of pocket for and aftermarket one > when I could buy that on my own. ... > Well I told the Geico man I wanted OEM and he said "no problem on > such a minor thing." Since the Geico man and the Honda people seem > very buddy buddy, I need to know how to tell that it is OEM. I have > a $250 deductable and I would have to pay out of pocket for and > aftermarket one when I could buy that on my own. No reason they shouldn't be buddy buddy. Markup on parts sold to insurance companies is huge. If you really, really want to know, tell them you want to see the parts number sticker, bag or tag that comes with it. Earle > Well I told the Geico man I wanted OEM and he said "no problem on such > a minor thing." Since the Geico man and the Honda people seem very > buddy buddy, I need to know how to tell that it is OEM. There will be a Honda parts sticker on the back, plus the molding die is marked up a certain way. You won't be able to see this without removing the bumper from the car. You can do one of two things: 1) ask the bodyshop to give you a copy of the invoice for the bumper (price removed of course), or 2) ask to see the bumper when it comes in. Anyway, I don't think you have anything to worry about. If you were told you were getting an OEM bumper, then you're getting one. The "buddy buddy" thing is probably just because they deal with each other all the time on business. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Well I told the Geico man I wanted OEM and he said "no problem on such >> a minor thing." Since the Geico man and the Honda people seem very [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > thing is probably just because they deal with each other all the time on > business. Thanks. I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts before they begin. If it is painted already (was order today and they said it will be in tomorrow), then it will more likely than not be on mine. I just like it to be as it was. There are cruelty to animal laws, but you can't sue anyone when they decide to committ suicide with your car! > I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts > before they begin. If it is painted already (was order [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sue anyone when they decide to committ suicide with your > car! Ask Geico what exactly the contract says about using OEM body parts. Because as you continue to insist none of this was your fault, I can only think you are also rationalizing what Geico should give you vs. what the contract /you signed/ says it should give you. Start flames. Then post the contract terms and take responsibility for agreeing to them. >> I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts before they >> begin. If it is painted already (was order today and they said it will [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Start flames. Then post the contract terms and take responsibility for > agreeing to them. I assume that I can because I had a windshield replaced and they approved a Honda glass. I did ask the Geico man about OEM and he said yes. If he did not, I would have raised hell. > I assume that I can because I had a windshield replaced and they > approved a Honda glass. I did ask the Geico man about OEM and he said > yes. If he did not, I would have raised hell. Depends on the age of the car, too. Many insurance companies have a policy of using OEM until the car is three years old. Also I understand some states mandate the use of OEM parts on insurance replacements, no matter what. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts before they >>> begin. If it is painted already (was order today and they said it will [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > a Honda glass. I did ask the Geico man about OEM and he said yes. If he > did not, I would have raised hell. If your Accord is made in North Americam, it most likely has PPG manufactured glass that also says Honda on it. PPG is also a common brand of glass used in the replacement mnarket. > > I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts > > before they begin. If it is painted already (was order [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Start flames. Then post the contract terms and take > responsibility for agreeing to them. A bumper too might not be enough of a savings to justify the inevitable increase in insurance premiums that will occur. He says "I recently had an animal run into my car" but it's hard to conceive of any animal doing much damage to the bumper of a car that isn't moving. Whether it's "your fault" or not, insurance companies have actuarial tables, that say that people who get in accidents, get in more accidents. Earle >> > I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts >> > before they begin. If it is painted already (was order [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Earle I am sorry. "An animal waited and jumped into my MOVING car that was going at east 60 mph." I hope that they do not raise my premium since I have a clean driving record. This is only my second time utilizing their services. The first was a windshield that cracked for no reason. > >> > I was thinking about asking them to let me see the parts > >> > before they begin. If it is painted already (was order [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > clean driving record. This is only my second time utilizing their services. > The first was a windshield that cracked for no reason. Windshields are different. They just break, for no apparent reason. But what insurance companies don't like, are claims. If you want to keep your premiums down, pay for small repairs yourself. Or if you are a good driver, save your pennies with a high deductible or no collision insurance at all and you will eventually have enough to buy a new car. On a 2005 model the bank probably made you get insurance, but most companies have a $1,000 deductible available. Cheers, Earle >> The first was a windshield that cracked for no reason. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Earle These days,fixed auto glass is GLUED in to add structural strength to the body,and if the body flexes,the glass can crack or shatter. Formerly,windshields used to "float" in a rubber gasket. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >>> Well I told the Geico man I wanted OEM and he said "no problem on >>> such a minor thing." Since the Geico man and the Honda people seem [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > laws, but you can't sue anyone when they decide to committ suicide > with your car! Seems like you could sue the pet's owner in small claims court for allowing their pet to run loose and causing damage to your property. Many locales have leash laws. You would need proof like a photo of the killed pet and it's dog tags,the paperwork from the body shop,etc.;the more evidence,the better chances of success. Probably too late for all that,though. your monetary award would be limited bacause your insurance is paying all but the deductible.(it's fraud to claim more than what you actually paid) That might make it not worth the trouble,then again,if the deductible is $500 or $1000,then it's possibly worthwhile. I'm not a lawyer. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > "Guest" <llcoolj@aol.com> wrote >> There are cruelty to animal [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > better chances of > success. Plus proof of being sober; driving within the speed limit; driving on the road and not off it; not having a grudge against the pet's owner; not having poisoned said pet and thrown it against the car to get a new bumper when the old one had a little scratch; etc. I encourage the pet's owner to countersue at this point, because the OP looks like sharkbait to me. Why are you encouraging this guy in his whine about the inevitable "stuff happens"? Cars get damaged. You can try to milk the insurance cos. for more than what the contract provides, and so push up rates for all, or you can read the contract BEFORE signing. > I'm not a lawyer. Just supportive of their trade. :-) >> "Guest" <llcoolj@aol.com> wrote >>> There are cruelty to animal [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > when the old one had a little scratch; etc. I encourage the pet's owner to > countersue at this point, because the OP looks like sharkbait to me. Deepnds on the state one is in. IN New York we have a leash law. If my car is damaged due to hitting a loose pet it is the owner of the pet that is at fault. All I need to prove it is the dead animal and the damage. For the pet owner to countersue in your above scenario, I DON'T have to prove I was sober, grudged, etc... They have to prove it is true. > Why are you encouraging this guy in his whine about the inevitable "stuff > happens"? Cars get damaged. You can try to milk the insurance cos. for > more than what the contract provides, and so push up rates for all, or you > can read the contract BEFORE signing. But if it is someone else's fault, why should one be out anything? I'm not saying look for blame when there isn't any, but if there is blame, that's the one who should pay. >> I'm not a lawyer. > > Just supportive of their trade. :-) No, just FAIR trade. >> "Guest" <llcoolj@aol.com> wrote >>> There are cruelty to animal [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > thrown it against the car to get a new bumper when the old > one had a little scratch; etc. Wrong;you do NOT have to prove you are innocent or not at fault. > I encourage the pet's owner > to countersue at this point, because the OP looks like [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > provides, and so push up rates for all, or you can read the > contract BEFORE signing. Suing in small claims court does NOT affect auto insurance rates. >> I'm not a lawyer. > > Just supportive of their trade. :-) No,PET OWNERS need to be responsible for their pets,and that includes when they are allowed to run loose and cause damage to other people's property. Then they should pay for what their animal has caused. In any case,the JUDGE would decide if the suit was worthy. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >>>> Well I told the Geico man I wanted OEM and he said "no problem on >>>> such a minor thing." Since the Geico man and the Honda people seem [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I'm not a lawyer. Well, this was a wild animal that came out of the woods. It is dead of course and I can't sue it or anyone. I recently had an animal run into my car and it destroyed my bumper. I took my ride to the Honda dealer for repair and my insurance is Geico. I made sure that I requested an original OEM bumper. I was able to get an OEM on my windshield that cracked for no reason, so I want to make sure that the car stays with original parts unless of course "I" happen to actually cause damage due to my neglegnece. SO far, things just happen to this car that is beyond my control. Is there anything to look for as far as identifying the bumper as original OEM? It is the front bumper by the way. --- For what its worth, I've been told that after market body parts are not made to exactly match the OEM parts by design. Something about patents and such. My brother fixes cars at a body shop and tells me that quite often when working with non-oem parts he needs to modify them to make them fit. (cut off a bit here and there, drill extra holes, bend something, etc...) He agrees with another poster saying that used oem is preferable to after market. > For what its worth, I've been told that after market body parts are > not made to exactly match the OEM parts by design. Something about > patents and such. Nah, it's just that the aftermarket simply does not have the budget to engineer the molds and dies the way Honda did. The appeal of aftermarket direct-replacement is economy, not quality. They have to find ways of making the parts cheaper than OEM, and that means cutting all the corners they can. Their materials are cheaper as well. Quality control is much laxer in the aftermarket. They simply can't afford to throw away all the production that the OEMs do. The aftermarket does not have access to the OEM engineering CAD files and blueprints, which are heavily guarded and protected. They have to get hold of actual examples of the parts, then work backwards to obtain their own specs. This is a terribly inaccurate way of engineering a part, especially something as large and floppy as a bumper skin. And then they're only going to spend so long welding up and grinding down the molds, since that takes time and money, so... I've been involved in the OEM process. The detailed engineering of OEM parts is astoundingly expensive, exhaustingly intricate, and is only justifiable in huge production quantities. Low-volume OEM parts are developed the same way as high-volume OEM ones, but with a price that reflects the small amortization base. Remember, Honda made hundreds of thousands of bumpers. The aftermarket makes a few thousand. Big, BIG difference. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> For what its worth, I've been told that after market body parts are >> not made to exactly match the OEM parts by design. Something about [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Remember, Honda made hundreds of thousands of bumpers. The aftermarket > makes a few thousand. Big, BIG difference. Actually,some other company probably makes the bumpers FOR Honda under contract. Honda buys lots of parts from local sources.Cats,exhaust parts,sensors,... that's how they keep the US domestic content high enough to qualify as US- made. No reason why they can't make extra bumpers and sell them thru their own distribution networks. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net >> Remember, Honda made hundreds of thousands of bumpers. The >> aftermarket makes a few thousand. Big, BIG difference. > > Actually,some other company probably makes the bumpers FOR Honda under > contract. Of course. But that's irrelevant. The working drawings come from Honda, The point is that Honda has the budget to develop the thing properly in the first place, and has the clout to demand extremely high standards. The aftermarket has none of that. They may not be allowed to. Honda paid for the development, remember? SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >>> Remember, Honda made hundreds of thousands of bumpers. The >>> aftermarket makes a few thousand. Big, BIG difference. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > They may not be allowed to. Honda paid for the development, remember? With modern CAD/CAM technology,they can take a bumper off a car,measure it and turn out detailed specs for manufacturing molds to make their own.They can buy the raw plastic from the same supplier the OEM company uses. For metal parts,the materials may be of lesser quality,a cheaper alloy,or not as thick a galvanized coating,or maybe no coating at all. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net > With modern CAD/CAM technology,they can take a bumper off a > car,measure it and turn out detailed specs for manufacturing molds to > make their own. My experience with aftermarket body parts is that they are grossly approximate in dimensions and usually fit poorly. This can only mean either poor quality or bad dimensioning, or both. You cannot properly measure a made bumper and make a tool exactly the same as the original. You do not exactly know the shrink factor. > They can buy the raw plastic from the same supplier the > OEM company uses. They can, but do they? Again, my experience is that if they do, they're buying a substandard grade or something, because toughness, flexibility and stability are usually not the same as OEM. > For metal parts,the materials may be of lesser quality,a cheaper > alloy,or not as thick a galvanized coating,or maybe no coating at all. And bad dimensioning. Last aftermarket bumper rebar I looked at was bowed down in the middle. The thing was brand-new, so there was no excuse for that. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ Ok. This is the part number for the bumper (front): 04711-SDA-A90zz ($259.80). It appears to be the same. I even compared it to other cars on the lot with the same color as mine. I also noticed that the right side that meets the headlight has a little gap along the bottom. The bumper seems to be a perfect fit otherwise. I have also noticed this same affect on other cars - on the same side... > Ok. This is the part number for the bumper (front): 04711-SDA-A90zz > ($259.80). It appears to be the same. I even compared it to other > cars on the lot with the same color as mine. I also noticed that the > right side that meets the headlight has a little gap along the bottom. > The bumper seems to be a perfect fit otherwise. I have also noticed > this same affect on other cars - on the same side... The number appears to be a valid Honda part number. Tong Yang Plastics in Taiwan is listed in my searches as the OEM supplier to Honda for that part number. But if your car was made in North America, then likely the bumper was made by a North American supplier intead. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ I recently purchased a 2007 CRV ( 2.4 L Petrol engine). So far so good. Very well made car however I am getting ridiculously high fuel consumption figures. On average in City/Urban driving I'm averaging 17.5L per 100km or 13.4 mpg. This is what you would expect from a truck not a brand new Honda. The worst consumption I could find on web reviews was 19.6mpg which is a far cry from what I'm getting. Am I missing something? The car hasn't had it's first run-in service yet. I'm currently using RON 95. My 2005 gets 17 mpg on a good day city, they will tell you break in etc... but my experience is the CRV is OVERstating the fuel MPG. best on highway I get is 23 MPG...Yes I know what some will say driving habits etc...I know... Not happy with the MPG Period,... I am sure yours will improve as it breaks in but not that much...If you find the reason send me an email as I have brought mine to dealer twice and all they say is all OK.... > I recently purchased a 2007 CRV ( 2.4 L Petrol engine). So far so good. > Very well made car [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- I'll keep you posted but no way are they getting away with 13 mpg. >My 2005 gets 17 mpg on a good day city, they will tell you break in etc... >but my experience is the CRV is OVERstating the fuel MPG. best on highway I [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > I recently purchased a 2007 CRV ( 2.4 L Petrol engine). 2-wheel drive or 4WD/AWD? > So far so > good. Very well made car however I am getting ridiculously high fuel [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The car hasn't had it's first run-in service yet. I'm currently using > RON 95. Why hi-test? Doesn't the CRV call for 86-87 octane? You're wasting money using a higher octane than specified. check tire pressures. SignatureJim Yanik jyanik at kua.net I just got an 07 it now had 1400 miles on it. it averages 26mph I was getting 29 on the highway with cruise on set @ 70. big differance from my 05 explorer it got 14 avg and best was 20 on highway. >> I recently purchased a 2007 CRV ( 2.4 L Petrol engine). > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >check tire pressures. > I recently had an animal run into my car and it destroyed my bumper. I took my ride to the Honda dealer for repair and my insurance is Geico. I made sure that I requested an original OEM bumper. I was able to get an OEM on my windshield that cracked for no reason, so I want to make sure that the car stays with original parts unless of course "I" happen to actually cause damage due to my neglegnece. SO far, things just happen to this car that is beyond my control. > > Is there anything to look for as far as identifying the bumper as original OEM? It is the front bumper by the way. I'd check your policy to see about an animal collision deductible. It is frequently much less than your normal deductible. it is in my state ($50) by law. There's no reason they can't show you their supplier invoice, inlcuding the price. The adjuster and the repairman are not really buddies, but they know they have to work well together, and it looks like they are from the outside looking in. Their unified purpose is to keep you relatively happy and get done with you with minimum effort and money invested. OEM refurbs are not as good as OEM new, strictly speaking. The OEM factory primer is frequently better than a refurb has. Keeps your paint from falling off 2 or 3 years down the road. The price difference between the two is minimal, maybe $60-75 in the U.S. from my experience. Pay it if necessary, assuming you're keeping the car a few years. And, I wouldn't even touch an aftermarket POS. Some policies will require you to accept aftermarket parts, check yours. It is the cost of getting that great premium. |
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