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Car Forum / Honda Cars / May 2007Question re first 3 month service
I got an email from Honda saying my new 2007 Honda LX is due for it's first maintenance, an oil change. Do I have to do this maintenance after 3 months, despite the fact that I only have 1000 miles on my new car? I thought you were supposed to do the maintenance when the oil light came on, on the dashboard? No? What's the deal here? I want to do the scheduled maintenances in order to keep my warranty good, but an oil change after only 1000 miles??? > I got an email from Honda saying my new 2007 Honda LX is due for it's > first maintenance, an oil change. From Honda, or from your Honda dealer? Those are two VERY different entities. > I got an email from Honda saying my new 2007 Honda LX is due for it's > first maintenance, an oil change. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No? What's the deal here? The deal here is that you can't differentiate between American Honda Motor Corp, which doesn't sell or service cars, and your dealership, which does sell and service cars. Your dealership has an automated system that begs people to come in every 3K miles and spend money. American Honda Motor Manufacturing built an automated system into the car that tells the driver when it's time to spend money. Two very different things, with two VERY different goals. If you can't differentiate between Honda, the manufacturer and your Honda dealership, you're ripe for getting fleeced. > In article <u66n335n1pdc0nh9dpo021gvq1hmtqa...@4ax.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > If you can't differentiate between Honda, the manufacturer and your > Honda dealership, you're ripe for getting fleeced. Okay, so which one is it that controls when I have to get maintenance in order to keep my Warranty valid? Basically, what you seem to be saying is that the local Honda dealer is trying to pull a fast one and convince me that I need to do maintenance that I do not need to do, according to American Honda Manufacturing. So according to American Honda Manufacturing I do not need to do the maintenance until it comes up on my dashboard? "A. Nonimus" <pdsnickles@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1178330454.588324.232540 @e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com: > Basically, what you seem to be saying is that the local Honda dealer > is trying to pull a fast one and convince me that I need to do > maintenance that I do not need to do, according to American Honda > Manufacturing. > So according to American Honda Manufacturing I do not need to do the > maintenance until it comes up on my dashboard? That is correct. However, you may want to peruse the Warranty booklet that came with your shiny new car. This booklet (published by American Honda) will tell you what exactly you need to do to the car in order to keep your warranty valid, this being entirely independent of what the franchised dealer wants you to do. The dealer, of course (being an independent company from Honda), would like you to give them more money than you might otherwise bestow. What they want you to spend will certainly do the car good and not harm, but is it really necessary? Not if Honda doesn't say it's necessary. Clear as mud?  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > "A. Nonimus" <pdsnickles@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1178330454.588324.232540 > @e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > what exactly you need to do to the car in order to keep your warranty > valid, to clarify, it specifies the service schedule, and to keep the warranty valid, the service schedule needs to be observed correctly. but legally, the work doesn't need to be done by the dealer - you can even do it yourself. simply keep records of the work done, the mileages at which it was done, and keep receipts. if you change the oil yourself for instance, keep receipts for its purchase and make a note in the service schedule accordingly. > this being entirely independent of what the franchised dealer wants > you to do. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you to spend will certainly do the car good and not harm, but is it really > necessary? Not if Honda doesn't say it's necessary. Clear as mud? the warranty booklet kinda sorta dances the tightrope of saying the work should be done by the dealer, without actually saying it in a way that breaks the law, the law being that warranty /is/ legally maintained if the schedule is properly observed. there are benefits of having the work done by the dealer of course, but economy isn't one of them, and in the case of san francisco honda [for example], they'll try and rip you for spectacular amounts of unnecessary work. to the average driver, the cost benefit of taking an evening course in basic car tech, is HUGE. even if they never intend to pick up a wrench ever again, they can thereafter walk into a shop and have some knowledge of what's going on and often avoid substantial expense because of it. >> "A. Nonimus" <pdsnickles@yahoo.com> wrote in >> news:1178330454.588324.232540 @e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > to clarify, it specifies the service schedule, and to keep the > warranty valid, the service schedule needs to be observed correctly. The latest cars do not have service schedules listed in their Owner's Manuals. You are supposed to go entirely by the dashboard's Maintenance Minder. The Warranty booklet will list the required mileage/time-based warranty services that are to be performed. > but legally, the work doesn't need to be done by the dealer - you can > even do it yourself. simply keep records of the work done, the > mileages at which it was done, and keep receipts. if you change the > oil yourself for instance, keep receipts for its purchase and make a > note in the service schedule accordingly. This is very important, especially if you do the work yourself. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> In article <u66n335n1pdc0nh9dpo021gvq1hmtqa...@4ax.com>, >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >So according to American Honda Manufacturing I do not need to do the >maintenance until it comes up on my dashboard? I am a Service Advisor in a Honda dealership..We advise on the newer vehicles to watch your oil life...at 15% you should call for a Service appointment.This is by American Honda Standards.There are two schedules for maintence for Honda Vehicles one for the older and one for the newer vehicles..if you dont put a lot of miles on a new vehicle an oil change should be done in at least 6 months..The older 3 months or 3,000 miles...We don't want to make any extra money off of you , we make our money off of people who DON'T take care of their cars. > I am a Service Advisor in a Honda dealership..We advise on the newer > vehicles to watch your oil life...at 15% you should call for a Service [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > miles...We don't want to make any extra money off of you , we make our > money off of people who DON'T take care of their cars. The little wrench in my Odyssey lit up the other day, when the oil life indicator turned to 15%, so you're right on, Marcia! Time for the oil change, I guess..... Dan D '07 Ody EX Central NJ USA > I thought you were supposed to do the maintenance when the oil light > came on, on the dashboard? Correct. In fact, your manual specifically advises you to NOT change your oil early, for your first oil change. You'll get service reminders all the time. Just ignore them until your vehicle tells you it needs service. > > I thought you were supposed to do the maintenance when the oil light > > came on, on the dashboard? > > Correct. In fact, your manual specifically advises you to NOT change > your oil early, for your first oil change. i could not see how it could hurt as long as you don't put synthetics or a synthetic mix in. me thinks no point to change the oil filter though. > You'll get service reminders all the time. Just ignore them until your > vehicle tells you it needs service. wow. i'm glad i'm not buying a used honda not that i'd want a toaster on wheels with a slushbox anyway :^) >> > I thought you were supposed to do the maintenance when the oil light >> > came on, on the dashboard? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > wow. i'm glad i'm not buying a used honda not that i'd want > a toaster on wheels with a slushbox anyway :^) Wow, are you out of date! Slushboxes were contemporary to the Beatniks and maybe Hippies. Although the term "slushbox" has been applied wrongly to automatic transmissions since I was a kid, it actually only fit the ancient Buick Dynaflow... although the 2-speed GM Powerglide came close in operation. Conceited stick jockies have used it to carelessly or mindlessly denigrate the entire gamut of automatic transmissions, good, bad and ugly, ever since. Modern automatic transmissions are mostly very much the same as modern manual transmissions but with controls (including lock-up torque converters) built in. Mike >>>>I thought you were supposed to do the maintenance when the oil light >>>>came on, on the dashboard? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Mike My second car was a 1950 Buick Roadmaster. To increase fuel mileage, one would start in low then shift into drive. Gotya about 11 instead of the typical 10 mpg. Even though, I love that biiiiiiig car! Wish I still had it.. JT >> Wow, are you out of date! Slushboxes were contemporary to the Beatniks >> and maybe Hippies. Although the term "slushbox" has been applied wrongly [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > JT That's the thing! A manually shifted two speed meant to be used mostly as a single speed. A sister-in-law had some lesser Buick with a Dynaflow (aka Fluid Drive) when she and my brother first met. Doug said stepping on the gas would cause the engine to roar to life, as the car started moving slowly forward. Not the sort of transmission to mate with a small engine! Roadmasters were supposed to be quite the ride, though. IIRC they had enough power to make the Dynaflow useful. Mike >>>Wow, are you out of date! Slushboxes were contemporary to the Beatniks >>>and maybe Hippies. Although the term "slushbox" has been applied wrongly [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Mike Yup... A huge overhead valve straight eight! You could see the gas gauge go down as so did the gas pedal... <G> JT On May 8, 8:19�pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote: > > <isq...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >news:1178599579.128945.288600@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I have a 1950 Roadmaster right now! > On May 8, 8:19�pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > I have a 1950 Roadmaster right now! Four door? Black?? Maybe it's the same one... <G> JT On May 8, 4:14 pm, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltn...@cybertrails.com> wrote: > <isq...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > wow. i'm glad i'm not buying a used honda not that i'd want > > a toaster on wheels with a slushbox anyway :^) , > ever since. Modern automatic transmissions are mostly very much the same as > modern manual transmissions really??? I thought DSG is only found on certain VWs and even those are far in between. Are you referring to the DSG clone in the upcoming evo? That car hasn't even been released to reviewers let alone the driving public yet. Would you please be specific which technological marvels you are referring to? found in which cars, specifically? we're not marketing here and don't like things to me left to imagination > On May 8, 4:14 pm, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltn...@cybertrails.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > we're not marketing here and don't like things to me left to > imagination "Slushboxes" were non-geared trannies. The venerable Dynaflow - the tranny that gave rise to the term - was a fluid coupled torque converter with a manual granny underdrive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynaflow); thus "slushbox" to denote the coupling didn't involve gears. If you know of things today that uses such an arrangement, please enlighten me. Even manual trannies are lubricated, so having liquid in the gearbox isn't the issue. Almost anything built in the last decade uses a lockup torque converter so fluid coupling isn't normally going on there - the torque converter is mostly a clutch. Then there was Renault's powdered iron magnetic clutch on the electrically shifted manual tranny to make it fully automatic, back in the '60s... as dry as any manual tranny :-) Mike >>On May 8, 4:14 pm, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltn...@cybertrails.com> >>wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Mike I believe that Studebaker was the pioneer with regards to lock up converters with the Automatic Drive introduced in 1950. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Drive JT On May 16, 12:09 pm, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltn...@cybertrails.com> wrote: > <isq...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > shifted manual tranny to make it fully automatic, back in the '60s... as dry > as any manual tranny :-) i think you would've made one helluva flesh eating lawyer, or at least some kind of a politician, did anyone tell you that before? > On May 16, 12:09 pm, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltn...@cybertrails.com> > wrote: > > i think you would've made one helluva flesh eating lawyer, > or at least some kind of a politician, did anyone tell you that > before? Sorry... engineer, not lawyer. I do get wound up in pointless discussions, though :-} Mike >>On May 16, 12:09 pm, "Michael Pardee" <michaeltn...@cybertrails.com> >>wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mike Heh... Engineers often can be held in contempt too! Don'tcha think that them thar' guys that design things, (and the process guys that follow), where you hafta take apart half the car to replace an alternator whould be tied spread eagled across a Texas fire ant mound maybe? <G> JT (A retired process engineer (mfg) who tried to minimize product service issues) > I got an email from Honda saying my new 2007 Honda LX is due for it's > first maintenance, an oil change. > > Do I have to do this maintenance after 3 months, despite the fact that > I only have 1000 miles on my new car? No. Just follow the maintenance minder and keep an eye on any overriding conditions per the owner's manual. For example, the manual might say to change the oil at least once per year even if the minder hasn't come on. The email is simply marketing trying to get you to spend money at the dealer. John >> I got an email from Honda saying my new 2007 Honda LX is due for it's >> first maintenance, an oil change. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >John Thanks to all for the clarifications! Now I get it! Will look over my manual to make sure I understand completely. This whole 'Maintenance Minder' thing is still a struggle for me! We have about 4700 miles on our '07 Odyssey and the 'oil life' is still at 20%! I'm taking it in this week, just can't wait any longer..... Besides, I have 4 free oil change coupons that the dealer gave me as part of the sale of the car. I've always changed the oil at 1500 miles then every 3k after that (5k with the synthetic in my Audi). So this is new territory for me. OTOH the car is leased, so in 2.5 years Honda is getting it back, so..... Dan D '07 Ody EX Central NJ USA > This whole 'Maintenance Minder' thing is still a struggle for me! We > have about 4700 miles on our '07 Odyssey and the 'oil life' is still [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > with the synthetic in my Audi). So this is new territory for me. OTOH > the car is leased, so in 2.5 years Honda is getting it back, so..... i don't mean this to be facetious, even though it sounds it, but why are you abandoning science and research for tradition and superstition? put another way, why can't you trust the engineers that poured millions of dollars and years of research into developing this stuff? if it's fear of the unknown, what do you know about metal fatigue and do you still fly in planes? > > This whole 'Maintenance Minder' thing is still a struggle for me! We > > have about 4700 miles on our '07 Odyssey and the 'oil life' is still [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of the unknown, what do you know about metal fatigue and do you still > fly in planes? I didn't say I was NOT following the Maintenance Minder - I actually am - just that I'm having a hard time adjusting to it. My last new car, a 2004 Audi A4, has a traditional schedule of oil changes and service, especially with it's turbo 1.8T engine. And it may be 'science and research', but when Audi first came out with the 1.8T engine, they recommended regular dino oil and 10k change intervals. That changed in 2004 after having severe sludge issues - they went to synthetic and a larger oil filter, along with decreased change intervals. Those that maintained a 'traditional' 3k/5k oil change schedule tend to have fewer sludge issues. So, sometimes in the quest to cut maintenance costs, the manufacturers can get their science and research messed up by bean counters. Dan D '07 Ody EX Central NJ USA >>>This whole 'Maintenance Minder' thing is still a struggle for me! We >>>have about 4700 miles on our '07 Odyssey and the 'oil life' is still [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > quest to cut maintenance costs, the manufacturers can get their > science and research messed up by bean counters. Another fine nail in the reliability coffin of Audi. I cannot imagine in my wildest drunken side walk knuckle dragging episode of buying the fact of a 10K change interval using dino oil in a turbo engine of any kind... Geeeeeeez.. JT >>> This whole 'Maintenance Minder' thing is still a struggle for me! We >>> have about 4700 miles on our '07 Odyssey and the 'oil life' is still [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > quest to cut maintenance costs, the manufacturers can get their > science and research messed up by bean counters. i think that has more to do with domestic oil formulations being somewhat inferior to european ones - and the underestimation thereof. and the problem of getting your oil changed at monkeylube. at least if you specify synthetic and it's not used, there's recourse. if you specified castrol [for instance] /nobody/ would pay attention. If you got a letter from your dealer it is probably automatically generated based upon average mileage/usage to solicit or perhaps remind you that service may be imminent. Below is a copy/paste of what Honda interprets the codes on your maintenance minder system. Howard From the factory recommended maintenance: 2007 ACCORD - Maintenance Main Items '06-07 Models If message ''SERVICE'' does not appear more than 12 months after the display is reset, change the engine oil every year. NOTE: a.. Independent of the maintenance messages in the smart maintenance display, replace the brake fluid every 3 years. b.. Inspect idle speed every 160,000 miles (256,000 km). c.. Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2 or 3 if they are noisy. Symbol Maintenance Main Items A Replace engine oil. Engine oil capacity without oil filter: 4.0 L (4.2 US qt). B Replace engine oil and oil filter. Engine oil capacity with oil filter: 4.2 L (4.4 US qt). Check front and rear brakes. a.. Check pads and discs for wear (thickness), damage, and cracks. b.. Check calipers for damage, leaks, and tightness of mounting bolts. c.. Check wheel cylinders for leaks. d.. Check brake linings for cracking, glazing, wear, or contamination. Check parking brake adjustment. Check the number of clicks when the parking brake lever is pulled with 196 N (20 kgf, 44 lbf) of force. With rear disc: 6 to 9 clicks With rear drum: 4 to 7 clicks Inspect tie-rod ends, steering gearbox, and gearbox boots. a.. Check rack grease and steering linkage. b.. Check boots for damage and leaking grease. c.. Check fluid lines for damage or leaks. Inspect suspension components. a.. Check bolts for tightness. b.. Check condition of ball joint boots for deterioration and damage. Inspect driveshaft boots. Check boots for cracks and boot bands for tightness. Inspect brake hoses and lines including ABS. Check the master cylinder and ABS modulator-control unit for damage and leakage. Inspect all fluid levels and condition of fluids. a.. Engine coolant b.. Manual transmission fluid (MTF) c.. Automatic transmission fluid (ATF-Z1) d.. Power steering fluid e.. Brake fluid f.. Clutch fluid g.. Windshield washer fluid Inspect exhaust system*. Check catalytic converter heat shields, exhaust pipes, and muffler for damage, leaks, and tightness. Inspect fuel lines and connections*. Check for loose connections, cracks, and deterioration; retighten loose connections and replace damaged parts. NOTE: According to state and federal regulations, failure to do the maintenance items marked with an asterisk (*) will not void the customer's emissions warranties. However, Honda recommends that all maintenance services be done at the recommended interval, to ensure long-term reliability. >I got an email from Honda saying my new 2007 Honda LX is due for it's > first maintenance, an oil change. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I want to do the scheduled maintenances in order to keep my warranty > good, but an oil change after only 1000 miles??? >If you got a letter from your dealer it is probably automatically generated >based upon average mileage/usage to solicit or perhaps remind you that >service may be imminent. Below is a copy/paste of what Honda interprets the >codes on your maintenance minder system. > >Howard Where did you copy the maintenance info from? Please. |
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