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Car Forum / Honda Cars / June 2007Replaced Timing Belt but . . .
Am now wondering what all the fuss was about. To backtrack, I have been reading this newsgroup off and on for the last few years. I've seen many posts here warning of the importance of changing your Honda Accord's timing belt at 75,000 miles or 7 years (or whatever the interval is) or dire consequences will occur. Long story short, I delayed replacing it for well beyond this replacement interval but finally replaced both the timing belt and water pump on my 1994 Honda Accord with 98,000 miles on it. I am the original owner and the timing belt had never been replaced before. I told the shop to keep the old parts so I could see what they looked like, expecting their condition to be terrible based on posts I have read here. When I picked up the vehicle, they had placed the old timing belt and water pump in a plastic bag for me. The timing belt was a small all-rubber belt with teeth on it which went all the way around. I carefully inspected this 13 year old timing belt and it looked almost brand new! No cuts, nicks, gouges, discoloration or any other noticeable wear! It looked fine, like it didn't really need to be replaced. Not at all what I expected it to look like. I'm not saying I wish I didn't have it replaced. It gives me peace of mind to have done so and if you guys say it's important, well you know alot more about this stuff than I do. Just saying it didn't look at all like it needed to be replaced. Is stretching of the belt over time, which I probably would not be able to notice, the issue affecting an old timing belt? Anyway, just not what I expected to see. > Am now wondering what all the fuss was about. > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Anyway, just not what I expected to see. A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the tensioner. The failure typically occurs where the teeth attach to the belt. On a new belt the teeth are firmly attached. By the time it's ready to be replaced the teeth can be picked off with a knife blade. I'd expect yours to be in that condition. By the time I replaced the belt on our old Volvo - a non-interference engine - at about 150K miles the teeth could be picked off with a thumbnail. Although the belt is often referred to as "breaking" I've never personally seen one fail that way. They don't stretch measureably. Timing chains are said to stretch, but as with bicycle chains it is really that the pivots wear and the slack makes the overall chain longer. That lack of visible change in the timing belt is why they are replaced on schedule rather than on visual inspection. There is no reliable visible warning of impending failure. Mike > A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually > dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "breaking" I've never personally seen one fail that way. They don't > stretch measureably. I've seen a few stretch. This was typical of mid to late 80's Accords and Preludes if I remember correctly. The belt would stretch and then the distributor would start making a tapping noise. Retensioning the belt would usually set things straight and quiet down the distributor. Eric >> A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually >> dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Eric Interesting. Maybe a reinforcing fabric that has since been updated, I hope. Mike >> A timing belt ready to fail looks very much like a new one, but usually >> dustier and a little scuffed on the backside where it rolls against the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Eric that's /highly/ unlikely. much more probable it was never set right in the first place. the tensioning procedure is somewhat involved and in my experience, frequently not done right. > Am now wondering what all the fuss was about. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > water pump in a plastic bag for me. The timing belt was a small > all-rubber belt with teeth on it which went all the way around. It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even into the teeth. The carcass provides the belt with all its strength. > I > carefully inspected this 13 year old timing belt and it looked almost > brand new! No cuts, nicks, gouges, discoloration or any other > noticeable wear! It looked fine, Wear manifests as deterioration of the fabric carcass. You cannot see that wear with your eyes. You have no idea when the carcass has weakened to the point of failure until the weave separates and the belt breaks or the teeth strip off. > like it didn't really need to be > replaced. Not at all what I expected it to look like. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > alot more about this stuff than I do. Just saying it didn't look at > all like it needed to be replaced. They never do. > Is stretching of the belt over time, which I probably would not be > able to notice, the issue affecting an old timing belt? See above.  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even into the teeth. The carcass provides the belt with all its strength. So is the fabric in the core of the timing belt surrounded by the rubber so that it cannot be seen? I still have the old timing belt, and when I inspect it carefully I cannot see fabric anywhere. I can see how the fabric would provide added strength. Maybe I'll disect it and see exactly how the fabric works. Thanks. >> It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even into >> the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > see how the fabric would provide added strength. Maybe I'll disect it > and see exactly how the fabric works. Belt manufacture starts with the fabric. The carcass is then impregnated with rubber under high pressure. Trust me. Your timing belt has fabric in it. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > Trust me. Your timing belt has fabric in it. I believe you. I'm just a curious guy. I like to see exactly how things work in an attempt to educate myself. Wishful thinking, perhaps. >> Trust me. Your timing belt has fabric in it. > > I believe you. I'm just a curious guy. I like to see exactly how things > work in an attempt to educate myself. > > Wishful thinking, perhaps. not at all. possibly the greatest thing you can do if that's your desire is go to a junk yard. there' you'll see all kinds of componentry disassembled so you can see pretty much exactly how it all works. i think they're amazing places. >> It's not "all rubber". It has a fabric carcass that extends even >> into the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks. The fabric helps to minimize elongation of the belt while, as I believe the fabric is actually highly drawn fibers or monofilaments with high tensile and minimal elongation properties. Embedding these in the belt cross section adds strength and minimizes the elongation while not affecting the "suppleness" (it's ability to bend around a specific radius without buckling or bulging). > The fabric helps to minimize elongation of the belt while, as I believe the > fabric is actually highly drawn fibers or monofilaments with high tensile > and minimal elongation properties. > > Embedding these in the belt cross section adds strength and minimizes the > elongation while not affecting the "suppleness" (it's ability to bend around > a specific radius without buckling or bulging). ========================== It's just like 'strapping tape' that has woven fibreglass in it. Unlike shipping tape you use for packing boxes, which can stretch or break, strapping tape will hold a TON of load before breaking. You can _clearly see_ the fibers in the side view of the timing belt. The usual area of failure on a TB is when the teeth shear off because the fibreglass threads have finally lost their strength. 'Inspecting' a Timing Belt is usually a waste of time unless the idler has seized and the backside of the belt will show chafing, or there's leakage problems and the belt is soaked with coolant or oil.. 'Curly' > 'Inspecting' a Timing Belt is usually a waste of time unless the idler has > seized and the backside of the belt will show chafing, or there's leakage > problems and the belt is soaked with coolant or oil.. > > 'Curly' Or if you suspect a thief may have taken it and replaced it with a belt made of Band-Aids with cartoon characters on them. Otherwise, I agree - a timing belt about to fail looks like one with a few miles on it. Mike > Am now wondering what all the fuss was about. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Anyway, just not what I expected to see. the fibers in the belt start to fatigue. can't see them obviously. |
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