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Car Forum / Honda Cars / July 2007

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Greenbox device captures carbon dioxide from your tail-pipe to make biodiesel

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Sparrow - 20 Jul 2007 23:16 GMT
Read about it at http://Muvy.org
Tegger - 21 Jul 2007 01:43 GMT
Sparrow <funnybunnyfive@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1184969770.149959.123120@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> Read about it at http://Muvy.org

M'kay. Lemme see now...

You want to make hydrocarbons from oxycarbons.

Where is the hydrogen going to come from? How will you crack the hydrogen
from its chemical prison? How will you split the oxygen from the carbon in
the first place? And how will you bind the relevant chemicals together so
as to create the needed cetanes?

And can you do all this in any sort of economically plausible manner?

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

JXStern - 21 Jul 2007 03:46 GMT
>M'kay. Lemme see now...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>the first place? And how will you bind the relevant chemicals together so
>as to create the needed cetanes?

Wot's a cetane?

As for the rest, simply break up one oxygen atom into eight hydrogen
atoms, save the excess neutrons as neutronium, and live on the
interest!  I'm sure the zero-point energy of the other oxygen atom can
be used to catalyze the reaction.  And the excess gamma radiation can
charge your cell-phone batteries!

Any questions, I'll be down in engineering working on the phaser
controls.

J.
Tegger - 21 Jul 2007 13:24 GMT
>>M'kay. Lemme see now...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Wot's a cetane?

What diesel is made of.

> As for the rest, simply break up one oxygen atom into eight hydrogen
> atoms, save the excess neutrons as neutronium, and live on the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Any questions, I'll be down in engineering working on the phaser
> controls.

10-4, Scotty.

Signature

Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Hachiroku ハチロク - 21 Jul 2007 12:31 GMT
> Sparrow <funnybunnyfive@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1184969770.149959.123120@
> 22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> And can you do all this in any sort of economically plausible manner?

Hmmm...I wonder...

I found a bunch of old lead piping and plumbing fixtures from when the
house was 'converted' to copper plumbing. I wonder if the OP has something
that can turn it into gold for me...
Steve Spence - 23 Jul 2007 02:36 GMT
Biodiesel isn't made with Carbon Dioxide. I couldn't find the article, just
a poor attempt at generating clicks.

Signature

Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
http://www.green-trust.org/bookshop/

> Read about it at http://Muvy.org
Eric Gisin - 23 Jul 2007 02:58 GMT
Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.

> Biodiesel isn't made with Carbon Dioxide. I couldn't find the article, just
> a poor attempt at generating clicks.
Rich - 23 Jul 2007 03:17 GMT
> Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.

Biodiesel is life?

Wow, you've discovered a new form of life.

Congrats.

Cheers,

Rich

>> Biodiesel isn't made with Carbon Dioxide. I couldn't find the article,
>> just a poor attempt at generating clicks.
Eric Gisin - 23 Jul 2007 05:58 GMT
>> Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.
>
> Biodiesel is life?
>
> Wow, you've discovered a new form of life.

f.cking retard. Did you parents wack you head every day?
Rich - 23 Jul 2007 11:08 GMT
>>> Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> f.cking retard. Did you parents wack you head every day?

Why, did yours?

Cheers,

Rich
Joe LaVigne - 23 Jul 2007 12:53 GMT
>>>> Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Why, did yours?

Clearly, you have a lack of understanding of the English language.
Bio=Life.  BioDiesel is a product made from Biological means.  Plants,
generally.  So, yes, BioDiesel has to follow the rules of biology.
Therefore, the statement that all life is made from H20 and CO2 was quite
relevant to BioDiesel...
bill - 23 Jul 2007 19:39 GMT
> >>> Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Why, did yours?

    Wow, 4 posts, this thread degenerated in an amazing hurry.
Anthony Matonak - 24 Jul 2007 02:57 GMT
...
>      Wow, 4 posts, this thread degenerated in an amazing hurry.

It didn't have very far to go as it started from a troll about
a magical device.

Anthony
Steve Spence - 23 Jul 2007 12:01 GMT
Biodiesel is made from lye, alcohol, and vegetable oil, none of which can be
produced from CO2 in a magic box. Your comments may be par for an alt group,
but not a sci group. The website we were pushed to was an aggregator of
other peoples news intended to provide click counts for money. A specific
link to the article might have been more helpful, but who knows.

Signature

Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
http://www.green-trust.org/bookshop/

> Sure it is, all life is made from H2O and CO2 or carbonates.
>
>> Biodiesel isn't made with Carbon Dioxide. I couldn't find the article,
>> just a poor attempt at generating clicks.
Eric Gisin - 23 Jul 2007 18:11 GMT
Biodiesel is made from once-living oil seeds, you f.cking enviro mental.
Apparently all enviros have absolutely no knowledge of life science, like the definition of "life".
It does NOT matter if plants get their CO2 from the air or whatever, it's all the same carbon.

> Biodiesel is made from lye, alcohol, and vegetable oil, none of which can be produced from CO2 in
> a magic box. Your comments may be par for an alt group, but not a sci group. The website we were
> pushed to was an aggregator of other peoples news intended to provide click counts for money. A
> specific link to the article might have been more helpful, but who knows.
Rich - 23 Jul 2007 19:04 GMT
> Biodiesel is made from once-living oil seeds, you f.cking enviro mental.
> Apparently all enviros have absolutely no knowledge of life science,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> for money. A specific link to the article might have been more
>> helpful, but who knows.

http://www.boulderbiodiesel.com/biodiesel/index.jsp

[...]

How to make Biodiesel
Making biodiesel is a very simple process. To power our vehicles, we need to reduce the viscosity of
the vegetable oil. Basically the vegetable oil needs to be mixed, given time to settle, then
drained. There are literally millions of different ways this can be done.

Vegetable oil is a tri-glyceride, that’s three vegetable molecules, or esters, attached to one
molecule of glycerin. Glycerin is what makes vegetable oil thick and sticky. To make biodiesel, we
want to remove the glycerin and replace it with an alcohol. This is the process of
transestrification. The alcohol we use is methanol.

To initiate the biodiesel reaction, we need a catalyst. Vegetable oil is an acid, so to ‘break’ the
vegetable oil molecule, we add a strong base. For this we use Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) also known as
lye. The amount of lye is constant when using new vegetable oil, but used cooking oil varies due to
the amount of Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) from heating the oil. To determine the amount of FFAs, we
perform a titration.

Use Extreme Caution:
Methanol is Flammable and Dissolves Rubber
Lye can Damage Skin, Eyes, and Lungs
Both Can Be Fatal if Swallowed

The Titration
When using virgin oil of any type, the amount of lye used in a biodiesel reaction equals about 1.0%
of the weight of vegetable oil. This amounts to 3.5 grams per liter of vegetable oil. Used cooking
oil, however, is more acidic than new vegetable oil, as heating vegetable oil creates free fatty
acids. Free fatty acids clog your arteries as well as your fuel lines and need to be neutralized in
the biodiesel process. These acids float freely amongst the triglycerides and attach themselves to
anything that is basic, such as lye. So, a titration is performed in order to determine the total
amount of catalyst to be added.

Isopropyl alcohol is used in the titration, rather than methanol, as it will not react with the
vegetable oil. The isopropyl alcohol keeps the vegetable oil in solution.

Careful: it is easy to make a mistake
To avoid errors, perform three titrations, this will help you when making larger batches.
Don’t be stuck with 50 gallons of wasted fuel!

1. Dissolve 1 gram of lye into 1 liter of distilled water
2. Dissolve 1 milliliter of vegetable oil into 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol
3. Drop the lye solution into the dilluted vegetable oil while measuring the pH one milliliter at a time
4. When the pH rises to 8 or 9, the free fatty acids have been neutralized

The number of milliliters added to the vegetable oil equals the number of grams of lye per liter of
vegetable oil that need to be added in the biodiesel reaction. This needs to be added to the 3.5
grams per liter required for the reaction. If you added 1.5 milliliters of lye/water solution to
your oil/alcohol in the titration, it would require 5 grams of lye per liter of vegetable used. The
amount will generally vary in between 4.5 to 6.5 grams depending on your source of feedstock.

Making Biodiesel
Biodiesel can be made in a blender, a soda bottle, or a 1,000 gallon mixing tank. The only
difference is the size of the containers and the amount of feedstock used. This section contains the
details on how to make a small batch of biodiesel. When making larger amounts, just use the same
proportions, mixing them in larger containers.

Making biodiesel requires vegetable oil, alcohol and a catalyst. The alcohol can be either ethanol
or methanol; the catalyst can be lye (NaOH) or potassium hydroxide (KOH). When using different
alcohol or catalysts, different proportions need to be added. For simplicity, this section only
contains the amounts for the most commonly available materials: methanol and lye. Mixing methanol
and lye creates sodium methoxide, which is then mixed with the vegetable oil to create biodiesel and
glycerin.

How to make 1 liter of biodiesel
1. Perform a titration to determine the amount of lye needed
2. Dissolve the lye into 200 milliliters of methanol
3. Mix the sodium methoxide with 1 liter of vegetable oil for 20 minutes
4. Allow the glycerin to settle for at least 8 hours. Most of the separation occurs after the first
hour, so you will see immediate progress.
5. Separate the biodiesel from the glycerin
6. Drive!

We hope that you stay involved in the future development of sustainable technology. Please consider
becoming a member of Boulder Biodiesel and join our discussion forum. We often have vehicles for
sale, can help you with vehicle conversions, fuel making, and presentations. Help us convert every
diesel vehicle to Biodiesel!
Eric Gisin - 23 Jul 2007 19:15 GMT
No, you stupid c.nt. Plants make biofuels. We modify them, but that's irrelevant.

> How to make Biodiesel
> Making biodiesel is a very simple process. To power our vehicles, we need to reduce the viscosity
> of the vegetable oil. Basically the vegetable oil needs to be mixed, given time to settle, then
> drained. There are literally millions of different ways this can be done.
Rich - 23 Jul 2007 19:25 GMT
> No, you stupid c.nt. Plants make biofuels.

No, some plants make oils, we convert said oils (also animal oils) to biofuels,
or salad dressing, as the case may be.

I understand that the aircraft engine oils used diring WW twice were
vegatable oils BTW.

Cheers,

Rich

> We modify them, but that's
> irrelevant.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> vegetable oil needs to be mixed, given time to settle, then drained.
>> There are literally millions of different ways this can be done.
Eric Gisin - 23 Jul 2007 19:44 GMT
>> No, you stupid c.nt. Plants make biofuels.
>
> No, some plants make oils, we convert said oils (also animal oils) to biofuels,
> or salad dressing, as the case may be.

There is no conversion of the oil. Biodiesel is plant or algae oil.
Plants make fatty acids attached to glycerin, we remove the glycerin.

> I understand that the aircraft engine oils used diring WW twice were
> vegatable oils BTW.
Rich - 23 Jul 2007 20:05 GMT
>>> No, you stupid c.nt. Plants make biofuels.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> There is no conversion of the oil. Biodiesel is plant or algae oil.
> Plants make fatty acids attached to glycerin, we remove the glycerin.

So what's your point of contention?

Cheers,

Rich

======================================================================

http://www.biodieselathome.net/Biodiesel_Production_At_Home.html

Biodiesel Production At Home

In the search for a cleaner, cheaper alternative to traditional petroleum based fuels, people have
been turned onto the idea of biodiesel.  Biodiesel is a vegetal oil based fuel.  Unlike other
vegetable based fuels, though, biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine without modifications.
Biodiesel production is also cleaner and cheaper then the production of other fuels.

Biodiesel burns clean, which means it does not harm the environment and contribute to pollution.
Biodiesel production is also a clean process which does not involve the risks that traditional
petroleum based fuel production does.

The biodiesel production process involves four simple steps.  To make biodiesel you start by making
sodium monoxide.  You then mix that with the oil and allow the byproduct to separate out.  You then
clean the fuel and it is ready for use.  Biodiesel production is not complex and it actually
something you can do at home.

The biodiesel production process is called transesterification.  This is done both on a large scale
by manufacturers and on a smaller scale in garages across the country by average, everyday people,
like you.

The fact that the biodiesel production process is so simple is one of the things that draws so many
people to biodiesel.  The only risk when making biodiesel is when working with the hot oil.  As long
as you are aware of the fact that you must be careful with the oil, then you face virtually no risk
during the production process.

In order to make biodiesel you will need lye, alcohol and vegetable oil.  The vegetable oil can be
new or used.  If used you should clean it of any debris.  Mix the lye and alcohol which will foam
during the chemical reaction, making sodium menoxide.  You then mix the sodium monoxide and
vegetable oil, let the byproduct, glycerin, separate out and then clean the biodiesel.  The cleaning
process can be done with a plastic bottle, some duct tape and some water.  It is easy and once the
biodiesel is one you can use it in your car.

Biodiesel production really is that simple.  It is something anyone can do and something many people
are already doing.  Using biodiesel is a great choice.

Biodiesel production is nothing like the production process for traditional fuels.  There is no risk
of explosion or harmful vapors.  Biodiesel is safe, so safe, in fact that it has been proven less
toxic then table salt.  Biodiesel production can be done in your own home, although most people
prefer to do it in outside in a building like a garage.  Biodiesel is definitely the fuel of the
future and you can get started using it today with your own biodiesel production at home.

>> I understand that the aircraft engine oils used diring WW twice were
>> vegatable oils BTW.
Server 13 - 23 Jul 2007 20:15 GMT
> Biodiesel is made from once-living oil seeds, you f.cking enviro mental.
> Apparently all enviros have absolutely no knowledge of life science, like
> the definition of "life".
> It does NOT matter if plants get their CO2 from the air or whatever, it's
> all the same carbon.

 Do you have a cite for us showing this box works, or are you wasting our
time?

>> Biodiesel is made from lye, alcohol, and vegetable oil, none of which can
>> be produced from CO2 in a magic box. Your comments may be par for an alt
>> group, but not a sci group. The website we were pushed to was an
>> aggregator of other peoples news intended to provide click counts for
>> money. A specific link to the article might have been more helpful, but
>> who knows.
Eric Gisin - 23 Jul 2007 23:07 GMT
>> Biodiesel is made from once-living oil seeds, you f.cking enviro mental.
>> Apparently all enviros have absolutely no knowledge of life science, like
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>  Do you have a cite for us showing this box works, or are you wasting our
> time?

What the hell do you mean? Ever heard of photosynthesis or even biology?
kdthrge@yahoo.com - 23 Jul 2007 23:31 GMT
> >  Do you have a cite for us showing this box works, or are you wasting our
> > time?
>
> What the hell do you mean? Ever heard of photosynthesis or even biology?

The box only catches the CO2. Then you are to take the box to a
facility where the CO2 is eaten by algae. The algae is then converted
to bio-fuel.

If it is feasable, it would be a good idea, since natural fuel
supplies are limited and it would be a good way to save the carbon.
But it will only be practical when fuel supplies are about to run out.
No reality at all with saving global warming.

But I'd like to see how they capture the CO2 and separate it from the
nitrogen in the air. A motor needs free back pressure in it's exhaust.
They also need to show what kind of fuel mileage they get with this
adaptation. The cost of building the plants to grow the algae and
convert it to bio-fuel are high also.

If they have a means to extract CO2 from the nitrogen gases, why not
do this directly at the Algae farm or at power generating plants? In
any event, the inventors seem more concerned with keeping their
secrets and their profits than with providing information that may
benefit humanity. Probably just another investor scam.

KDeatherage
 
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