>>>> At least the Spec V has RFID chipped keys.
>>>
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> would have a clause and an additional cost rider as a result to make
> more money off the customer.
>>>>> At least the Spec V has RFID chipped keys.
>>>>
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> seth, with respect, you're welcome to justify the remote starters you sell
> any way you want.
Haven't sold them in years.
> but in terms of how the key [and replication system] works, you don't
> understand and are therefore propagating misinformation. that's not to
> say you haven't read the marketing blurb and can repeat it, but in terms
> of mechanism, you're still unclear.
The key (Honda key from factory) is challenge/response. I didn't say
otherwise. The FOB that controls the remote starter is not. It is purely
1-way, rolling code (also called code hopping).
> it's a challenge/response mechanism - just like you have with computer
> network authentication. on startup, ecu signals for code with token, key
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> do to break in is, well, follow the procedure spelled out in the article.
> the remote starter performs challenge/response just like the key.
Actually not the same. It (the remote starter RFID over-ride module) is
wired direct into the lines that the RFID receiver uses to feed the vehicle
ECU.
> are you welcome to have on in your own vehicle? sure. but please don't
> say they're impossible to hack because they're not.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. Please show me where I said
they were impossible to hack. I said it is a small risk due to the
complexity of doing it vs. otehr easier methods of stealing ones car. Big
difference. Re-read what I wrote and you will see that.
just like the key
> is not. the remote starter makes vehicle theft easier because there's a
> "key" permanently attached to the vehicle.
> as i said at the start, some people do this stuff for the technical
> challenge. hence the article. which i didn't write.
jim beam - 30 Jul 2007 04:07 GMT
>>>>>> At least the Spec V has RFID chipped keys.
>>>>>
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> otherwise. The FOB that controls the remote starter is not. It is
> purely 1-way, rolling code (also called code hopping).
so is the honda key - never sends the same code twice. the point is,
you can /predict/ what the next code will be if you have a few samples
from which to establish the pattern.
>> it's a challenge/response mechanism - just like you have with computer
>> network authentication. on startup, ecu signals for code with token,
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> wired direct into the lines that the RFID receiver uses to feed the
> vehicle ECU.
it /is/ the same - the ecu still has to challenge and then compare the
hash on the response.
>> are you welcome to have on in your own vehicle? sure. but please
>> don't say they're impossible to hack because they're not.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> complexity of doing it vs. otehr easier methods of stealing ones car.
> Big difference. Re-read what I wrote and you will see that.
apart from problems with engine wear caused by habitual use of remote
starters, i mentioned security, a point on which you've taken great
offense for reasons i still don't understand. and you continued arguing
against that point regardless of the facts, finally resorting to what
amounts to "well, if it /does/ get stolen, it's not excluded from your
insurance, so hopefully you're ok".
fact: if you have the gear and the knowledge, and a laptop is not
exactly an uncommon item, electronic theft is a good deal easier than
mechanical. and remote starters mean the driver doesn't need to be
present or challenged.
end of story.
> just like the key
>> is not. the remote starter makes vehicle theft easier because there's
>> a "key" permanently attached to the vehicle.
>> as i said at the start, some people do this stuff for the technical
>> challenge. hence the article. which i didn't write.