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Car Forum / Honda Cars / September 200797 civic rough/no idle, just changed timing belt, 72 trouble code
Hello, I just changed the timing belt of a 97 civic dx hatch, we screwed up the timing the first time(crankshaft pully moved) adjusted it again and set the line on the pulley to the arrow on the block and the up arrow was set for the camshaft at the top. this was double checked to make sure it was accurate. On reassembly valve clearences were adjusted to factory spec. I took a timing light to it and at ~2.5-3k rpm the timing lines up with the red mark on the pulley. The gas can be held and it'll keep running as long as the rpms are ~2k or higher, any lower and it stalls out. Went for a short drive, car is totally gutless till ~5-6k rpm and even then it's weak. when we got everything back together and started the car the check engine light came on, jumped the ecu and got a 72 code (Misfire on cylinder #2) I'm thinking at this point that I must have made an error when the timing belt was put on and the timing is off there. If that's not the case then I have no idea why it's idle is so bad. I reset the ECU by pulling the battery connectors for a good 10min or so, next time it started the 72 code came back shortly. Any ideas how to get the car to idle correctly and what might be going on? ChaoticEntity@gmail.com wrote in news:1189402352.188080.6440@ 57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com: > Hello, I just changed the timing belt of a 97 civic dx hatch, we > screwed up the timing the first time(crankshaft pully moved) adjusted [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > On reassembly valve clearences were adjusted to factory spec. How far out were they when you started? If they were WAY out, then your belt is still on there incorrectly. > I took a timing light to it and at ~2.5-3k rpm the timing lines up > with the red mark on the pulley. "Red mark"? Is this the middle one of the group of three? Or is it the one that's all by itself?  SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ > ChaoticEntity@gmail.com wrote in news:1189402352.188080.6440@ > 57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com: >> I took a timing light to it and at ~2.5-3k rpm the timing lines up >> with the red mark on the pulley. I missed something before... The timing should be at the middle mark of the three at **IDLE** with the Service Check connector shorted. At 2500rpm it will be WAY off from ANY of the marks! You've done something seriously wrong here. Did you have a factory service manual before doing all the work? SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> ChaoticEntity@gmail.com wrote in news:1189402352.188080.6440@ >> 57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > At 2500rpm it will be WAY off from ANY of the marks! You've done something > seriously wrong here. no kidding. shouldn't have to touch the ignition timing if the belt is set right. > Did you have a factory service manual before doing all the work? ok, it was disassembled and put back together from the service manual step by step. (misunderstood where crank TDC was, stupid mistake) I double checked the timing was correct when the belt was put on, that is that the cam marks lined up with the block and the crank pulley's white TDC mark was lined up with the V notch and the point(it was dead on) Then followed the tension procedure and after everything was tightened the marks were checked again, this time they were near perfect(the cam was perfect, the crank TDC mark was ~1mm from the point(IE well within 2deg) Now that it has been reassembled the timing is dead on that middle (red) mark @ ~750-800rpm. This is a canadian model D16y7 so the idle should be 750+- Still runs lousy, no power, idles rough then dies. If you put it in gear or anything it just wants to die on you. has almost no power till ~3-4k rpm and even after that it's far less than normal... any ideas? > ok, it was disassembled and put back together from the service manual > step by step. (misunderstood where crank TDC was, stupid mistake) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > any ideas? i still say cam timing's off. it's easy to set the cam and the crank so they align, but have the belt one tooth out simply by having the belt slack. you need to assemble, tension, then re-check the mechanical timing /afterwards/. carefully rotate the motor three times, then slowly bring the crank timing point up to tdc keeping the belt under tension. only then can you be 100% certain that cam timing is correct. and to emphasize, ignition timing is a different matter entirely to cam timing - ignition can look perfect with the cam 19 degrees out. the gotcha check for this is the position of the distributor - it should be roughly in the middle of the rotation slots. if the cam is out, it'll be towards one end. finally, use the right book - some are crap. helminc.com is the source for factory honda service manuals - easily the best investment you'll ever make in your honda if you do your own maintenance. > i still say cam timing's off. it's easy to set the cam and the crank so > they align, but have the belt one tooth out simply by having the belt [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Show quoted text - followed step by step from the honda service manual, well then tomorrow I'll rotate the crank pulley to TDC, take the valve cover off and check the marks on the camgear just to triple check the mechanical timing. Any ideas what it might be if it's not the timing? vacuum leak? >> i still say cam timing's off. it's easy to set the cam and the crank >> so they align, but have the belt one tooth out simply by having the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Any ideas what it might be if it's not the timing? vacuum leak? Bent valve. SignatureTegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> i still say cam timing's off. it's easy to set the cam and the crank so >> they align, but have the belt one tooth out simply by having the belt [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Any ideas what it might be if it's not the timing? vacuum leak? i agree with tegger - bent valve. you said that you adjusted the valves to factory spec - were any significantly loose before you did that? unless abused, honda valve lash rarely drifts that much. > Hello, I just changed the timing belt of a 97 civic dx hatch, we > screwed up the timing the first time(crankshaft pully moved) adjusted > it again and set the line on the pulley to the arrow on the block and > the up arrow was set for the camshaft at the top. this was double > checked to make sure it was accurate. you need to check it again after the belt has been tensioned - the symptoms say you're out. > On reassembly valve clearences were adjusted to factory spec. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > out. Went for a short drive, car is totally gutless till ~5-6k rpm and > even then it's weak. timing belt is set wrong. the cam gear is not just "up", but two marks must align with the head surface. > when we got everything back together and started the car the check > engine light came on, jumped the ecu and got a 72 code (Misfire on [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Any ideas how to get the car to idle correctly and what might be going > on? be logical - it worked before the belt change, it doesn't work after. cam timing is the most likely error. |
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