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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / November 2005The so called 'bumper to bumper' Hyundai warranty
To the consumer , 'bumper to bumper' warranty gives the impresssion that EVERY defective part is covered at no cost . Not so. The 2004 Santa Fe i bought my folks have had 2 license plate bulbs go bad within a 3 month period with just over 12,000 miles on the car. The Hyundai Dealer wanted $21 to change out the bulb because the 'bumper to bumper' warranty doesnt cover light bulbs. Light bulbs going bad (even the same one within a 3 month time frame) are not covered ; according to the Service Manager : " Light bulbs are considered a maintenance item". I say , thats fine if one goes out every 3 or 4 years...but the same one within 3 months at just over 12,000 miles ??? Come on. I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the 'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. > To the consumer , 'bumper to bumper' warranty gives the impresssion that > EVERY defective part is covered at no cost . Not so. The 2004 Santa Fe [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the > 'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. Yeah, see, you have to actually *read* the warranty -- it clearly says such items as light bulbs, wipers, etc. are excluded. You shouldn't have been surprised by this. It's annoying to have two bulbs go out in such a short time, and I guess 21 bucks is a bit much to charge to replace them -- but they're light bulbs. They burn out. Sometimes you get a defective one... or two... or three, and they don't last as long as they should. That's the way things go. Replacing them requires a Phillips' screwdriver. Ah, you said the magic word, Shane - 'defective'. Don't you think 'defective' parts should be covered under the warrantee? I think it says that in the papers if you read them..... I own a 2006 Sonata and a 2003 Kia Sedona. I just had to pay for a headlight in the Sedona under the 'bumper to bumper' warrantee. Maybe you don't remember when such warrantees covered everything. Times are a changing. Also, Kia has made it very clear with huge signs in their waiting rooms that any failure to follow their suggested maintenance with documented proof voids the 100,000 mile warrantee. Used to be that a simple entry in their book that you changed the oil and filter at routine intervals was enough. Tom >> To the consumer , 'bumper to bumper' warranty gives the impresssion that >> EVERY defective part is covered at no cost . Not so. The 2004 Santa Fe [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > as they should. That's the way things go. Replacing them requires a > Phillips' screwdriver. > Ah, you said the magic word, Shane - 'defective'. > Don't you think 'defective' parts should be covered under the warrantee? I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Tom I certainly understand what you're saying, Tom, but the point is that the warranty covers what it says it covers, and doesn't what it doesn't. It doesn't matter what I *think* it should cover -- all that matters is what the warranty says. Every buyer goes into the deal knowing (or should know) the score. I would certainly agree (and wish it were so!) that a "bumper-to-bumper" warranty "should" cover EVERYTHING on the car that might break, for a specific period of time. But it doesn't, it says it doesn't, and that's the way it is. I suppose we could argue over what "defective" means in the case of a light bulb (if it doesn't light, ever, it's defective. If it doesn't last "as long as it should..." well, who determines that?), but that discussion would be silly, in the long run. But really, my response was caused by, "It's a light bulb, for crying out loud. Get out a screwdriver and replace it." The things people will complain about... gee....my Hyundai dealer replaces bulbs for free even if I'm just in for an oil change.....and they also wash the car for free unless they're really busy! Len  Signature....Order the "Accordion Evolution" documentary of the Las Vegas International Accordion Convention from my website: http://users.accesscomm.ca/limbery/ ...Del Sur Al Norte...Regina Sk. Canada Latin and South American Folk dance band: http://users.accesscomm.ca/limbery/DelSurAlNorte.html > To the consumer , 'bumper to bumper' warranty gives the impresssion that > EVERY defective part is covered at no cost . Not so. The 2004 Santa Fe [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the > 'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. heck my dealer. will change any bulb. wash vehicle.. vacums it out. cleans the windows.. tops up winsheild washer fluids.. why I wont take it anywhere else to be worked on.. Pete... > gee....my Hyundai dealer replaces bulbs for free even if I'm just in for > an oil change.....and they also wash the car for free unless they're [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the >> 'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. Bulbs are a consumable item like oil and filters, brakes etc you want them to cover a 79 c bulb????? Its so easy to replace them, go to walmart buy the bulbs ..your owners manual should state how to change. every car buy ind read their manual it's there for a reason... > To the consumer , 'bumper to bumper' warranty gives the impresssion that > EVERY defective part is covered at no cost . Not so. The 2004 Santa Fe [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the > 'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. >Bulbs are a consumable item like oil and filters, brakes etc you want them >to cover a 79 c bulb????? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the >> 'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. Autozone usually replaces them for free so they can get the sale. ;-) > The Hyundai Dealer > wanted $21 to change out the bulb because the 'bumper to bumper' > warranty doesnt cover light bulbs. While you can quibble about whether bulbs should be covered under warranty (they're supposed to be for the first 12 months), if you can't be bothered to change your own bulbs, you deserve to get soaked for $21. > > The Hyundai Dealer > > wanted $21 to change out the bulb because the 'bumper to bumper' [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > warranty (they're supposed to be for the first 12 months), if you can't > be bothered to change your own bulbs, you deserve to get soaked for $21. I was told by my dealer that headlight main bulbs are covered under the warranty (not sure if this is the full 10/100), but the side marker bulbs are not. I guess it's because the side markers get used more when the lights are switched to the first setting. The license plate bulbs are certainly not covered. Yes -- I got stung too. I'll be fixing my own from now on. How about timing belt? Today, I was quoted $800 to do the 60,000 replacement service on my 2002 XG350L. That was a total surprise. I found the same thing for $399 about 2 hours away. > How about timing belt? Today, I was quoted $800 to do the 60,000 > replacement service on my 2002 XG350L. > > That was a total surprise. I found the same thing for $399 about 2 > hours away. Make sure they use a Hyundai timing belt or you'll void the warranty. 'While you can quibble about whether bulbs should be covered under warranty (they're supposed to be for the first 12 months), if you can't be bothered to change your own bulbs, you deserve to get soaked for $21. ' REPLY: I would have replaced the bulbs myself, EXCEPT the Service Advisor at the Dealership said 'it was covered' ; so, i took it in only for the Service Manager to tell me it wasnt. By then, they had changed the light bulb and i had to part with $21 . Of course the next time one goes , i will do it myself. I just think that saying a car is 'bumper to bumper' waranteed , is a little misleading. I expect to pay for oil , filters, etc...but not light bulbs ...especially 2 within 3 months just over 12 k. miles. > 'While you can quibble about whether bulbs should be covered under > warranty (they're supposed to be for the first 12 months), if you can't [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > filters, etc...but not light bulbs ...especially 2 within 3 months just > over 12 k. miles. It sounds like you screwed yourself. If you were told that it was covered, you should have refused to pay the $21. You DON'T have to accept that kind of treatment! I suggest you go back and demand a refund. Threatening to take your business elsewhere should be enough leverage to get them to capitulate. If it's not, you shouldn't be dealing with them anyway, as they're dishonest. The warranty ('04 at least) clearly states that "belts, brake pads and linings, clutch linings, filters, wiper blades and bulbs" are covered for 12 months/12K miles "only when the replacement is the result of a defect in material or factory workmanship". The dealer was not obligated to replace the bulbs under warranty, but for a $2 part, one would think they might accommodate you as a good will gesture, especially if you bought the car from them and/or had them service it regularly. However, it's not their fault that you didn't read the warranty info completely. It's not like it's hidden, either. It's right on Hyundai's web site, so anyone can check it before buying a car. http://www.hyundaiusa.com/global/warranty/warranty.aspx The dealer is correct. Bulbs are not covered beyond 1 year/12k miles, except your headlamp bulbs which are covered for 5/60. In all sincerity, everyone should read the warranty section of their owner's materials. First, it'll help you know whether you wish to take the car to the dealer, take it somewhere else, or even attempt repairs yourself. Second, you'll be able to know the veracity/correctness when the dealer says items are/are not covered by your warranty. Many dealers will replace bulbs for the cost of the part when not covered by warranty as a courtesy, but nothing requires them to do so. They have every right to charge labor for everything their technicians spend time doing. I typically install bulbs at no labor charge unless especially difficult or I feel the customer is taking advantage. Don't worry about the small stuff. I just found out today that you need to replace the timing belt at 60,000 and that if you don't, it is likely to ruin the engine if it breaks. I was quoted $800 for parts and labor for my 2002 XG350L.. I checked around and found I could get the work done in another city for less than $500. It's still a shock to have a service item cost that kind of money. I've bought my last Hyundai. > Don't worry about the small stuff. I just found out today that you > need to replace the timing belt at 60,000 and that if you don't, it is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I've bought my last Hyundai. Most vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular changes over the life of the vehicle. OTOH, my Astro's 4.3 V6 and my wife's Malibu 3.1 V6 both have timing chains. This advantage is unfortunately offset by the suckey transmissions Chevy makes. > Most vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular > changes over the life of the vehicle. I've owned GM's for decades before recently buying a 2004 Sonata and I've never had to replace a timing belt as a matter of routine maintenance. I've changed them because I was in there for something else, but that was totally discretionary. My cars typically go for around 250,000 miles and they're still running on the factory timing belt. As you say below, some aren't belts, some are chains, but those that are belts have not required changing at 60,000. So- in all of my research prior to buying this Sonata I had not discovered that they require a timing belt every 60,000 miles. Does this apply to all Hyundai's or only to certain motors? > OTOH, my Astro's 4.3 V6 and my wife's Malibu 3.1 V6 both have timing > chains. This advantage is unfortunately offset by the suckey > transmissions Chevy makes. Hey - that tranny isn't sucky. We had a Malibu that the Hyundai replaced as my wife's car, and the Malibu is now my daughter's car. It was a disappointing car in a lot of respects and I'd never buy another Malibu, but I certainly wouldn't complain about the tranny. It's crisp and it runs trouble free forever as long as you never let it get thirsty for ATF. GM trannies get pretty upset over not having enough ATF. Easy to lose the pump and then the clutches. Now wheel bearings on the other hand... that's another story... Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>Most vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular >>changes over the life of the vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > belts, some are chains, but those that are belts have not required changing > at 60,000. I'll bet that none of these vehicles had a 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty either, did they? Hyundai requires that you change the timing belt in order to maintain the warranty. That's the price you pay for the extended warranty coverage. That doesn't mean that the timing belt is going to wear out in 60K, 80K or even 100K miles, but Hyundai is not willing to take that chance, since they're the one's that will be paying for the engine damage if it does fail. If you want the coverage, you agree to the terms. If you don't care about the warranty, you don't have to change the timing belt. Your call. > So- in all of my research prior to buying this Sonata I had not discovered > that they require a timing belt every 60,000 miles. Does this apply to all > Hyundai's or only to certain motors? All of them that I know of. FWIW, when I replaced the timing belt on my old Excel @64K miles, it was nearly indistiguishable from the new belt I installed. The replacement was still in the car when I sold it, 112K miles later. I'm not suggesting that anyone take the risk of not changing a timing belt, but they can last a long time. The only timing belt failure I've experienced was in a car with a leaking main seal that coated the timing belt with oil for ~20K+ miles until it finally shed a couple of teeth. However, it was not a Hyundai and I have no idea how durable the timing belts in the current Hyundai models typically are. When my Elantra hits 60K miles, I'll change the timing belt myself to keep Hyundai happy, as I did with the Excel. > >>Most vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular > >>changes over the life of the vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > terms. If you don't care about the warranty, you don't have to change > the timing belt. Your call. No need for the lecture - I simply responded to the comment that most vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular changes. No matter whether they had a 100,000 mile warranty or not - the facts is the facts. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > > So- in all of my research prior to buying this Sonata I had not discovered > > that they require a timing belt every 60,000 miles. Does this apply to all [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > miles later. I'm not suggesting that anyone take the risk of not > changing a timing belt, but they can last a long time. This does not surprise me. Unless there is a real design problem with an engine that causes it to eat belts, today's belts really should go well over 100,000 miles. I'm guessing the belts in the Hyundai will as well, but I'm not going to be the guy that tests that theory. A timing belt is easy enough to change and though I don't necessarily believe it should be a requirement to keep a warranty in place, it's not the kind of thing I'm going to use as my hill to die on. > The only timing belt failure I've experienced was in a car with a > leaking main seal that coated the timing belt with oil for ~20K+ miles > until it finally shed a couple of teeth. However, it was not a Hyundai > and I have no idea how durable the timing belts in the current Hyundai > models typically are. When my Elantra hits 60K miles, I'll change the > timing belt myself to keep Hyundai happy, as I did with the Excel. The only failure of this type that I've experienced was on a chain equipped engine. It was a 1976 Mercury Capri with a 6 cyl. The teeth were fiber, bonded to steel hubs and, though I didn't know it at the time, were a known wear point. Fortunately, the Capri's 6 cyl was not an interference motor so when the teeth departed this life, no real damage was done. It was a pretty straight forward remove and replace thing, with the obvious timing considerations. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net The warranty you're keeping in place is the warranty on the timing belt. If your timing belt fails and you didn't replace it with a factory belt when it was due, then Hyundai will not cover the repairs. That doesn't mean your entire warranty was void-- only repairs arising out of your failure to replace the timing belt when due. It would be no different than if your radiator were clogged or your engine were sludged and you hadn't done your coolant or oil changes as required. i dont know what the big deal is about replacing a belt, yeah its a inconvienience and costs about 400.00 but its only every 100,000 kms.. my friend has a honda accord 1995 with 450,000 kms and shes changed 4 so far.. >> Most vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular >> changes over the life of the vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Now wheel bearings on the other hand... that's another story... But it's not $400 in Des Moines, it's $800 and if I hadn't made the call to other midwest dealers, I would have been ripped off. Believe me, I am going to write Hyundai about the gouging here. Dealers are free to charge whatever they want. Some dealers charge more to offset higher business costs such as higher rents in some areas. I take a little issue with the use of the term "rip-off" when a customer agrees to a price and receives the work which was contracted. The customer bears some responsibility to check into pricing at a number of venues, and Ray should be commended for doing so. Ask yourselves-- is saving $400 worth 4 hours driving? The answer varies. But Ray has made the point that it's at least worth investigating. All those times I've posted that prices will vary with geographic area-- they're true. Also, be sure to determine whether you're comparing apples to apples. The higher price quote may have also included a new tensioner and drive belts while the lower quote may not. I'm not arguing this makes a $400 difference (it doesn't), but it may be worth considering. For what it's worth, I strongly recommend replacing the tensioner with the belt. It's only covered by the 5/60 warranty, and if it fails, the timing belt could slip, causing the same damage as if the belt had broken or stripped. For sake of comparison, another technician recently replaced the timing belt and tensioner (but not drive belts) on an XG300 at my place of employment, and the total for parts and labor was about $850. Considering geographic differences, that does make the $800 in Des Moines sound a bit high, even if it does include the drive belts. But again, the dealer has the right to charge whatever he wants for his services. In article <464c97cb112064b2895e4c8cc421a2cd@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>, hyundaitech wrote: > For sake of comparison, another technician recently replaced the timing > belt and tensioner (but not drive belts) on an XG300 at my place of > employment, and the total for parts and labor was about $850. Considering > geographic differences, that does make the $800 in Des Moines sound a bit > high, even if it does include the drive belts. But again, the dealer has > the right to charge whatever he wants for his services. Why would a belt/tensioner change cost $850? Does labor cost $200/hr or something? Chris In the geographic area where I'm employed, everything is marked up. Parts are sold above list. Labor is very expensive. There are many service facilities in my area with labor rates well above $100 an hour. >But it's not $400 in Des Moines, it's $800 and if I hadn't made the >call to other midwest dealers, I would have been ripped off. Believe >me, I am going to write Hyundai about the gouging here. Well, I guess you could just sell the car and buy something that you won't have to complain or whine about. But then again, you'd just probably find something on your next vehicle to whine about....."Boo Hoo, the world is trying to screw me". Get over it and move on....... > i dont know what the big deal is about replacing a belt, yeah its a > inconvienience and costs about 400.00 but its only every 100,000 kms.. > my friend has a honda accord 1995 with 450,000 kms and shes changed 4 so > far.. Big deal? Never said it was. My - this is a sensative little group isn't it? If you don't mind changing a timing belt every 60K then fine. But - that is an extreme warranty requirement. Will I do it? Sure, I bought the car and I like the car. Hyundai requires it to maintain the warranty, so I'll do it. But a car with a 100,000 mile warranty should not require what is a fairly major repair in order to maintain the warranty. You are investing in the design problem to save the manufacturer from having to honor their warranty. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>i dont know what the big deal is about replacing a belt, yeah its a >>inconvienience and costs about 400.00 but its only every 100,000 kms.. >>my friend has a honda accord 1995 with 450,000 kms and shes changed 4 so >>far.. > > Big deal? Never said it was. Then why bother to whine about it? > My - this is a sensative little group isn't > it? If you don't mind changing a timing belt every 60K then fine. But - > that is an extreme warranty requirement. In your opinion. Obviously, that's not the general consensus here. > Will I do it? Sure, I bought the > car and I like the car. Hyundai requires it to maintain the warranty, so > I'll do it. But a car with a 100,000 mile warranty should not require what > is a fairly major repair in order to maintain the warranty. Again, that's your opinion, not a fact. > You are > investing in the design problem to save the manufacturer from having to > honor their warranty. Who says there's a design problem? It's not as if timing belts are popping on Hyundais left and right. Hyundai feels that changing the timing belt at 60K miles is prudent maintenance. Other car manufacturers do too. This isn't as unusual as you think it is. > >>i dont know what the big deal is about replacing a belt, yeah its a > >>inconvienience and costs about 400.00 but its only every 100,000 kms.. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Then why bother to whine about it? Reading comprehension is your friend Brian - I never whined. Or do you just like to throw little tid bits like that out there at anyone who happens to hold a little different opinion than yours? > > My - this is a sensative little group isn't > > it? If you don't mind changing a timing belt every 60K then fine. But - > > that is an extreme warranty requirement. > > In your opinion. Obviously, that's not the general consensus here. So - I'm not entitled to an opinion? > > Will I do it? Sure, I bought the > > car and I like the car. Hyundai requires it to maintain the warranty, so > > I'll do it. But a car with a 100,000 mile warranty should not require what > > is a fairly major repair in order to maintain the warranty. > > Again, that's your opinion, not a fact. Again - that seems to bother you. > > You are > > investing in the design problem to save the manufacturer from having to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > timing belt at 60K miles is prudent maintenance. Other car manufacturers > do too. This isn't as unusual as you think it is. Perhaps it's not. This is my first Hyundai and I've been a long time GM guy. I do all of my own work - both body and repair and I have no blind spots for the problems with GM's, but I've never heard of having to replace a timing belt at 60,000 before buying this car. Like I said - it's not a big deal. I'll replace the belt when the time comes. Just seems a bit odd. From what I see people posting about the price of this job (if you go to the dealer), this is a bit more pricey than "prudent maintenance". Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net <<Hyundai requires it to maintain the warranty, so I'll do it.>> According to http://www.theautoshop.com/timing.html Hyundai only requires that replacement on pre-1996 models. John Cowart The information provided in the link is incorrect. Hyundai does recommend 4 years or 60k miles on all their vehicles with timing belts. If you have a Hyundai and you doubt me, you should check your owner's manual. The vehicle owner's manual is the maintenance god. If you don't do what it says, you should expect to foot the bill for any consequences from not performing your maintenance. While what's said about it not being likely that the belt will fail immediately is true for most engines, it's not a gamble I recommend people take. If you're outside the maintenance interval and you didn't replace the belt, you'll be picking up the dime for any resulting damage. I had to put an engine in an XG once. The bill was about $10,000. (Granted, in most cases, timing belt failure doesn't equal engine, but I'm hoping you get the picture. If you think the timing belt is expensive, you're not going to want to hear about the repairs due to damage from a broken timing belt). > Don't worry about the small stuff. I just found out today that you > need to replace the timing belt at 60,000 and that if you don't, it is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I've bought my last Hyundai. Before you condemn Hyundai, check around to see what that same service costs on other cars. You'll probably find that it's just as much on any comparable vehicle. You could always buy all the necessary tools and a service manual (or use the FREE online manual that Hyundai provides), do the work yourself and save a bundle. If you're not willing to do that, you have to pay someone to do it for you, plain and simple. Putting a component in a vehicle that has the potential to ruin the engine if it fails is poor engineering. The Hyundais use an interference engine and the belt failure will ruin it. It's a built-in time bomb and had I known about it, I would not have purchased the car. For 2006, they have come to their senses by putting timing chains in the vehicles. I've long criticized interference engines, but most automakers still use them. Unfortunately they're hard to avoid. Last I checked, Toyota had no interference engines that were belt driven. The problem is that with fuel economy standards continuing to encourage higher compression engines to get more power out of a smaller (and more econimical engine), compression ratios continue to increase. The higher the compression ratio, the more difficult it is to make a noninterference engine. > Putting a component in a vehicle that has the potential to ruin the > engine if it fails is poor engineering. Gee, I guess they shouldn't use bearings, connecting rods, pistons, valves or any of those other potentially ruinous internal parts. I wouldn't want to have one of them fail... > The Hyundais use an > interference engine and the belt failure will ruin it. It's a built-in > time bomb and had I known about it, I would not have purchased the car. Gee, do you think you can exaggerate the issue a bit more??? "Time bomb", what a joke! > For 2006, they have come to their senses by putting timing chains in > the vehicles. Then maybe you should buy one so you can sleep at night. Bearings, connecting rods, pistons and valves are covered under the warranty. > Bearings, connecting rods, pistons and valves are covered under the > warranty. And there is no recommended replacement interval for them either. I personally don't think Hyundai is asking too much by having a major recommended service interval done at 60,000 miles, I think thats pretty much when most car makers have one. And as for the 100,000 powertrain warranty, well you can always get extended warranties with a chevy vehicle, you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car, they figure its better for them to make the extra profit then some 3rd party "insurance company" which is what most extended warranty companies are, they are betting that your car isnt going to have a major failure for 100,000 miles. say 100 people give them $1500 and only 5 of them have major issues that cost $4000 apiece they still make off with $130,000 plus interest, plus the bank makes money because that cost was probably financed as well. So lets say covering the extra warranty period only costs hyundai $400 per car on average, which gets passed onto the consumer, if you put in $800 to do the 60K service, thats only $1200 for an extended warranty. Probably the best thing to do when looking at a new car is to grab the manual, take a look at what the recommended services are, and then go to the service department and price it out, and see what the additional costs of owning the vehicle will be, and figure out how long you will be owning it. Best thing car makers/dealerships could do is figure out the long term costs, and then sell service work contracts to people, that cover all the recommended maintenance to certain milage intervals, including all oil changes, coolant flushes, steering flushes, brake flushes, intervaled brake pad changes, and maybe even tire changes based on wear, and then sell it to the owner so they can just finance it along with the vehicle, and when they hit a service interval, they just take it back to their dealer. Alot of people would probably like the $4000 of service work just rolled into the loan so they can take care of it over 72 months. > you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car Yet they still manage to offer lower prices and higher value than the Chevys you allude to. No wonder GM is laying off 30,000 workers and bankruptcy is not out of the question. If I was forced to own GM junk, I'd buy an extended warranty, since it's a good bet that I'd need it. > > you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car > > Yet they still manage to offer lower prices and higher value than the > Chevys you allude to. No wonder GM is laying off 30,000 workers and > bankruptcy is not out of the question. If I was forced to own GM junk, > I'd buy an extended warranty, since it's a good bet that I'd need it. Apples and oranges, I doubt Hyundai employee's have as good benefits, alot easier to sell cars cheaper if you don't have alot of overhead. Unions are what have done GM in, forcing more and more benefits without looking at whats happening to the company that is supporting them. There is a rule about biting the hand that feeds you. As for quality issues, you get what you pay for. Sorry, you got it wrong. Look at "Management" to put the blame on, not on the workers, workers do not made stupid decisions like to built Plants with 200% the capacity of the best estimate of how many cars will be sold by GM. As for quality .... GM has the worse in the USA, drove a Chevy 8 months ago (rental) worse piece of manure I have seen in my life. Got tired of problems with Fords, switched to Japs/Koreans ..... HAPPY and with more money in my pocket .... Detroit completely lost it. >> > you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > As for quality issues, you get what you pay for. Yes actually all the blame can be put on the management, they hired the crappy designers, and allowed the unions to strong arm them into giving away so much for so little. Mostly its a design issue though. > Sorry, you got it wrong. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > As for quality issues, you get what you pay for. >>>you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Apples and oranges, I doubt Hyundai employee's have as good benefits, I guess "benefits" is a relative term. With the UAW, it seems to mean "whatever we can force the company to give us TODAY, regardless of the what will happen tomorrow." As for Hyundai workers, it's not like they're working in sweatshops for slave wages. > alot > easier to sell cars cheaper if you don't have alot of overhead. Unions are > what have done GM in, forcing more and more benefits without looking at > whats happening to the company that is supporting them. There is a rule > about biting the hand that feeds you. Absolutely. Unions like the UAW exist more for their own sake than for the workers or the companies. It's about power, not workers or product quality and it comes back to bite them in the a.s periodically. BTW, I don't think you can let GM management off the hook, either. The workers didn't make the decisons to continually build crappy products and bet the farm on gas guzzling trucks and SUVs. The shortsightedness and environment irresponsibility of GM is amazing. > As for quality issues, you get what you pay for. Hmmm. Hyundai quality ranks right up there with Honda and Toyota, the two best, but their prices are substantially lower. The reasons are obvious; their costs are lower and they actually care about quality. There's a big difference between the general asian attitude of "How can we make it better for the price?" and the GM attitude of "How little do we have to do to fool people into paying too much for it?" It seems that asian companies are geared toward the thinking buyer, whereas GM has always bet there will be enough of a "herd mentality" in the marketplace to maintain their momentum. They were wrong. There's a quote from Alfred P. Sloan, Jr., former President of GM that really sums it up well. He state emphatically: "General Motors is not in the business of making cars. General Motors is in the business of making money!" GM has never learned that if you concentrate on the product, the profits will naturally follow. > >>>you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "whatever we can force the company to give us TODAY, regardless of the > what will happen tomorrow." Exactly, Unions asked for too much to benefit themselves without looking at the future to see how sustainable it would be, they looked at the company as an enemy instead of a partner in keeping the workers happy and keeping the company profitable. > As for Hyundai workers, it's not like they're working in sweatshops for > slave wages. I'm sure they arn't, building cars requires some degree of skill. > > alot > > easier to sell cars cheaper if you don't have alot of overhead. Unions are [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the farm on gas guzzling trucks and SUVs. The shortsightedness and > environment irresponsibility of GM is amazing. Yeah management has blown it the last 30 years or so, they should have seen this coming in the 80's when the Japaneses started rolling out good cars. > > As for quality issues, you get what you pay for. > > Hmmm. Hyundai quality ranks right up there with Honda and Toyota, the > two best, but their prices are substantially lower. The reasons are > obvious; their costs are lower and they actually care about quality. Yeah Hyundai has definately changed alot from 1995 to present, much like how honda went from the 70's to the mid 90's to today, BIG change, its a change that the big 3 in detroit will have to make if they expect to last to the end of the decade. > There's a big difference between the general asian attitude of "How can > we make it better for the price?" and the GM attitude of "How little do [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > money!" GM has never learned that if you concentrate on the product, the > profits will naturally follow. Every company is in the business to make money, GM just didn't look to the long term "how can we make money today and tommorow and into the forseable future? not counting service work on the old cars that were sold, hmm wait thats why things break.. >To the consumer , 'bumper to bumper' warranty gives the impresssion that >EVERY defective part is covered at no cost . Not so. The 2004 Santa Fe [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I post this just so you are aware. There are other things which the >'bumper to bumper warranty' does not cover as well. I must say I had no such misgivings when I bought my Hyundai. Clearly the warranty is spelled out in plain english, all you have to do is read the owner's manual or check the website. The reason why your bulbs went so quickly after replacement is more than likely the tech did not wear gloves while installing them. The bulbs have a component that oil on your hands breaks down. Always wear gloves while changing them... I know someone had posted before that they had clutch trouble with their Tiburon and was SHOCKED it wasn't covered under the 50k waranty. Come on people, if you find anyone that warranties a clutch for 50k let me know...that is definitely considered a "wear item" (ever drove with anyone who 'rides the clutch')? So far I have had one recall on my Tiburon which was the positioning of the rear brake line and had door lock issues which was covered under the warranty. Sure, it would be nice if EVERYTHING was covered under the "bumper to bumper" warranty but as I said, the things that are not are cleary spelled out to the consumer and it's still a better warranty than a Ford or GM. |
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