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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / January 2006timing belt or timing chain?
I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing belt. Please excuse my ignorance...I am not a Hyundai owner yet but am seriously considering the Tucson or Sante Fe. I thought most new cars nowadays used timing chains, which I heard can last forever. Thanks for your response. yat To this day, most of the domestics still use a timing chain, and rarely does one ever think about them. A few of the DOHC engines (like the 3.2L and 3.5L in the Dodge Intrepids of the last dozen or so years) used a timing belt. Imports much more frequently have used a belt. It allows (supposedly) for smoother, quieter operation and better fuel economy for the set-up. But of course, any belt is a maintenance item, and since many of those engines are "interference" engines, meaning if the belt breaks, you bend or break some things in the engine (valves, etc.), you best not forget about it. Something to ponder when you are deciding which vehicle to buy. (All Santa Fe engines for sure would have timing belts). Green Valley Giant >I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing belt. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > yat > To this day, most of the domestics still use a timing chain, and > rarely does one ever think about them. A few of the DOHC engines > (like the 3.2L and 3.5L in the Dodge Intrepids of the last dozen or > so years) used a timing belt. I'd say most domestic V-6 and V-8 engines have timing chains, but most of the domestic I-4's, which by and large are based on foreign design, use timing belts. > To this day, most of the domestics still use a timing chain, and rarely does > one ever think about them. A few of the DOHC engines (like the 3.2L and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Something to ponder when you are deciding which vehicle to buy. (All Santa > Fe engines for sure would have timing belts). My 2006 Sonata with the 2.4L engine has a timing chain, if the web site is correct. I think the new 3.3L V-6 has a chain also, but I'm less sure on that one. Matt You're correct, Matt. Both the '06 Sonata engines are chain driven. My first introduction to a timing belt was when the one on my mid-80s Escort broke. It was painful! > To this day, most of the domestics still use a timing chain, and rarely > does > I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing > belt. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > yat The Mazda 2.3 DOHC engine has a timing chain, which by itself is good. It also has something called "Variable Valve Timing", which sounds to me like a failure waiting to happen. http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z2C76387C > > I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing > > belt. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > It also has something called "Variable Valve Timing", which sounds to > me like a failure waiting to happen. Not as much of an eminent failure as you might think. Variable Valve Timing (in different forms) exists in a lot of engines these days. Most manufacturers either have a form of VVT or are experimenting with it. Some of the stuff that's being toyed with is quite radical for your basic internal combustion engine. It's not inconceivable that the camshaft will become a thing of the past, giving way to the ever-present computer, which will monitor and adjust valve timing.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing >>belt. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > It also has something called "Variable Valve Timing", which sounds to > me like a failure waiting to happen. So do the new Hyundai engines. Time will tell... Matt >>>I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing >>>belt. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Matt And I will add that I am very pleased with the results. My new Alantra scoots much better than my Accent ever did. The VVT seems to broaden the torque curve quite a bit. nothermark Although Gilmer (that's its real name!) timing belts seem to be a rather new innovation, they've been used for many decades. That being said, however, timing chains were generally used by most manufacturers before the shift to Gilmer timing belts. Most OHV engine designs used timing chains (most USA manufacturers) or timing gears (many European manufacturers). Actually, timing gears are the best, but can be costly to design and manufacture. In most OHC designs, timing chains were historically used. For example, the classic Jaguar DOHC inline 3.8L and 4.2L six used timing chains, as well as most other European cars including the SAAB SOHC and DOHC inline four. FIAT used Gilmer belts in their 124 series in the '60s. Mercedes and Porsche used, and still use, timing chains. Timing chains are more durable than the Gilmer belt. The generally accepted design spec for replacement of the Gilmer belt is 50,000 to 100,000 miles. Hyundai specifies replacement of the belt at 60,000. On the other hand, a timing chain - either simlex or duplex - can last much, much longer. The primary problem with a timing chain design over time and mileage is chain stretch. This natural wear is compensated by a timing chain tensioner, either oil pressure or mechanically operated. One of the primary reasons for the original shift from a timing chain to the Gilmer belt is one of economics. Although the timing chain is more durable than the Gilmer belt, it's generally much more expensive to replace on an OHC engine than a belt. Not only is the timing chain itself more expensive ($50 to $200), the replacement (labor) can be very costly. In some OHC designs which use a timing chain, the engine has to be pulled to effect the repair. Whereas the Gilmer timing belt is inexpensive ($20 to $50) to purchase, and the replacement cost is much less than a timing chain. NOTE: Although we Hyundai owners may complain about this fact, it's nevertheless much less than a timing chain replacement. Timing chain replacement in the classic American OHV engine design is also quite inexpensive, both in terms of parts cost and labor. Although OHC engine designs are much more efficient, the efficiency comes at a long-term maintenance cost increase over OHV designs. One of the reasons for the increased cost of using timing chains (beyond the cost of the parts themselves) is that a timing chain must run in an oil bath, which in the case of automotive engines, is generally the sump. That means that it must also have an oil-tight cover over it. Timing belts run dry and need nothing more than a cheap plastic cover to keep out dust, dirt and moisture. > Although Gilmer (that's its real name!) timing belts seem to be a > rather new innovation, they've been used for many decades. That being [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Although OHC engine designs are much more efficient, the efficiency > comes at a long-term maintenance cost increase over OHV designs. And then there is my Fort Taurus SHO. Timing belt placement is such that one the case is opened it is better to replace water pump, front seal, Crank sensor and a host of other stuff as the labor charge is monumental. Lucky it's a non-interference engine. Don wrote: "And then there is my Fort Taurus SHO. Timing belt placement is such that one the case is opened it is better to replace water pump, front seal, Crank sensor and a host of other stuff as the labor charge is monumental. Lucky it's a non-interference engine."...... Actually, that is true with many vehicles, particularly the water pump. That is often used as the tensioner for the belt, making it something replaceable when you replace the belt with virtually no additional labor. But those who said timing belts are cheap need to price out some of them. The Kia Sedona minivan's does not come cheaper than $110 (that I can find). That is just the part - with labor, I have one quote for $450, and I have a hunch it won't get much cheaper. That is not chump change to me. Green Valley Giant Rev. Tom Wenndt wrote: "The Kia Sedona minivan's does not come cheaper than $110." The best price I've found on the Sedona timing belt is $94. Thus, it's more expensive than your usual timing belt parts cost. I imagine this is due to the V6 design, and most cost references to belts are those used in Inline 4 cylinders. Although $450 is a significant amount of money, it's still cheaper than some timing chain replacements which require the engine to be pulled from the vehicle. This is most often the case in some of the European vehicles. > Although $450 is a significant amount of money, it's still cheaper than > some timing chain replacements which require the engine to be pulled > from the vehicle. This is most often the case in some of the European > vehicles. True, but timing chains seldom require replacement. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > Rev. Tom Wenndt wrote: "The Kia Sedona minivan's does not come cheaper > than $110." [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > from the vehicle. This is most often the case in some of the European > vehicles. Except that most timing chains (well, speaking for American engines - I don't have experience with European designs) will last the life of the rest of the engine. By the time the timing chain is shot, it is time for a complete overhaul anway. My Chrysler minivan had 178,000 miles on it when totaled and the engine was still running fine with all of its original internal components. Matt I've never done a Sedona belt, but it's the same engine as the XG, and the access in the Sedona looks even worse than the XG's. > I've never done a Sedona belt, but it's the same engine as the XG, and the > access in the Sedona looks even worse than the XG's. I can't even imagine replacing the accessory drive belt on my Sonata. It appears that the clearance between the body and the pulleys is about 1.5"! The Sonata seems to have a fair bit of room in front of and behind the engine, but little on the pulley end of the engine. If one had to remove a drive pully, I don't think there is even room to get a socket on the nut or bolt. A combination wrench will fit, but it is hard to install a nut or bolt to a given torque using a combination wrench! Fortunately, I can now afford to hire most of my repair work done, but I still do my own basic maintenance and enjoy doing repairs when I have the proper tools and time. Matt > Don wrote: "And then there is my Fort Taurus SHO. Timing belt placement is > such that one the case is opened it is better to replace water pump, front [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Green Valley Giant I was quoted $225 Canadian at the Oakville Hyundai dealership? Chris Thanks for all the responses. All the information has been helpful. I get the opinion that the difference in having a timing belt over a timing chain is that the belt is less expensive...for the part as well as the installation. Having the belt replaced at 60k miles should be considered routine long term maintenance. > I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing belt. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > yat I have an '03 Santa Fe. I must say I love the car and have had no trouble with it. However it just reached 60K miles so I had the timing belt and all other belts replaced by the dealer. With tax it came out to be a little under $500.00. I have had the same work done on Hondas and for about $400.00 I get the timing belt and a new water pump. SignaturePaul > I was reading an earlier thread about when to change out the timing belt. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > yat |
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