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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / May 2006Hosing off engine bay
I want to clean the engine bay of my 2001 Accent with a garden hose. What should I waterproof before doing this? > I want to clean the engine bay of my 2001 Accent with a garden hose. > What should I waterproof before doing this? Nothing. Just spray on whatever cleaner you have then hose it off. Afterwards, drive the car until the engine is good and warm to drive off any moisture. > > I want to clean the engine bay of my 2001 Accent with a garden hose. > > What should I waterproof before doing this? > > Nothing. Just spray on whatever cleaner you have then hose it off. > Afterwards, drive the car until the engine is good and warm to drive off > any moisture. WHAT????? Please Brian - don't do this. A dousing with a garden hose into the alternator followed by an immediate startup is just begging for problems. As well - such a simple advisory to a person asking this kind of question invites other such issues as water introduced into the air intake of the engine. A better answer would have been that you can indeed hose off an engine compartment but be aware there are areas that are sensitive to large amounts of water. Large amounts of water are not normally expected in an engine compartment. One should take precautions to protect the alternator from being deluged by the water. Also ensure not to flood the air intake. Allow the compartment to dry before starting the engine.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>>I want to clean the engine bay of my 2001 Accent with a garden hose. >>>What should I waterproof before doing this? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > being deluged by the water. Also ensure not to flood the air intake. Allow > the compartment to dry before starting the engine. THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! Give me a break, Mike. What's with all this alarmist nonsense? I hose off engines all the time and NEVER have the problems you describe. Any water that gets into the alternator drains right out the bottom. You'd really have to try hard to get enough water to cause a problem into the intake while simply rinsing the engine bay. If you're really worried about such silliness, rinse the engine bay with the engine running. Any water that hits the alternator will be spun right out and any fine mist that gets into the intake will go right through the engine. It's completely unnecessary, but maybe it will make you feel better. It never ceases to amaze me what some people get worked up about. > THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! Bullshit Brian. You've never seen me post anything that was alarmist. > Give me a break, Mike. What's with all this alarmist nonsense? I hose > off engines all the time and NEVER have the problems you describe. Any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It never ceases to amaze me what some people get worked up about. Well then, I guess it amazes me at what some people will do and consider it not to be problematic. I too hose my engine compartments but just not quite the way you do. Have I seen problems from people blasting them as you suggest? Yes. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >>Give me a break, Mike. What's with all this alarmist nonsense? I hose [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the way you do. Have I seen problems from people blasting them as you > suggest? Yes. Yes, hosing down an alternator that isn't spinning and able to sling off the water is a very bad idea. Hosing down one that is spinning and able to sling of water is just a bad idea. :-) Matt >> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the water is a very bad idea. Hosing down one that is spinning and able > to sling of water is just a bad idea. :-) Sorry Matt, but that's just plain wrong. It's not a problem at all. >>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Sorry Matt, but that's just plain wrong. It's not a problem at all. I say it is. Call up an alternator manufacturer and ask them. Matt >>THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! > > Bullshit Brian. You've never seen me post anything that was alarmist. Well, you did so this time. >>Give me a break, Mike. What's with all this alarmist nonsense? I hose >>off engines all the time and NEVER have the problems you describe. Any [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the way you do. Have I seen problems from people blasting them as you > suggest? Yes. Who said anything about "blasting"??? The original question was about "hosing off" the engine bay. As I said, I've done so hundreds of times and have NEVER, repeat NEVER had any problems with alternators or water in intakes. If an alternator couldn't handle a little water, it would never survive in an engine bay. While it's true that you don't want to SUBMERGE an alternator, a little spray from the outside is no problem. The only time I've ever seen ANY problems from rinsing off an engine were in cases of degraded spark plug leads or a cracked distributor caps. Rinsing an engine while it's running is a good way to diagnose moisture related problems such as that. What i do on all my cars, including my classic 1970 Vette, is cover the Distributor/Coil/Alternator with a small plastic bag then spray Simple Green detergent on the motor , sidewalls, firewall, radiator, and a/c condensor ... let it sit for 1 minute....use a brush to get at any heavy deposits, then use a light spray of water from a garden hose. I then blow off the water with compressed air , wait another 5 minutes with it out in the open air, remove the plastic bags...then fire it up and immediately go for a 3 mile drive . Ive never had any problems doing it this way. > What i do on all my cars, including my classic 1970 Vette, is cover the > Distributor/Coil/Alternator with a small plastic bag then spray Simple [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > immediately go for a 3 mile drive . Ive never had any problems doing it > this way. That's pretty much what I do, other than using a foamy engine cleaner rather than Simple Green. I avoid spraying a heavy jet of water and try to avoid electrical parts. It isn't hard if you are careful. Matt 'That's pretty much what I do, other than using a foamy engine cleaner rather than Simple Green. I avoid spraying a heavy jet of water and try to avoid electrical parts. It isn't hard if you are careful. Matt ' REPLY: IVe tried Gunk but it tends to leave white streaks behind, so, i switched to Simple Green which is not as harsh and leaves no residue. If i could find a Degreaser that doesnt leave a residue, id probably switch back . > 'That's pretty much what I do, other than using a foamy engine cleaner > rather than Simple Green. I avoid spraying a heavy jet of water and try [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If i could find a Degreaser that doesnt leave a residue, id probably > switch back . I haven't had significant problems with the white streaks, but then I don't leave the stuff on the recommended 10 or so minutes. It seems to streak mainly in areas that dry before you rinse them, and on a warm engine (usually also recommended), the stuff can dry quickly. I tend to foam it on, wait a minute or two and they flush it off. I repeat a couple of times if necessary. Matt >> 'That's pretty much what I do, other than using a foamy engine cleaner >> rather than Simple Green. I avoid spraying a heavy jet of water and try [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > foam it on, wait a minute or two and they flush it off. I repeat a > couple of times if necessary. I agree with Matt. Multiple applications clean better than longer wait times and thorough rinsing eliminates residue. Regular cleaning prevents gunk buildup. > >> 'That's pretty much what I do, other than using a foamy engine cleaner > >> rather than Simple Green. I avoid spraying a heavy jet of water and try [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > times and thorough rinsing eliminates residue. Regular cleaning prevents > gunk buildup. I switched to Purple Cleaner which is available is almost every parts store. The stuff really works well to break down grease and it's liquid. As long as you don't spray it on a hot engine (which will cause it to dry too fast), you don't have the same problems a Gunk. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! > >Give me a break, Mike. What's with all this alarmist nonsense? I hose >off engines all the time and NEVER have the problems you describe. I have had good luck with a pressure washer. I was always careful not to blast the distributor, alternator, and harness plugs. I would do it with the engine very warm, but not hot. When I could barely hold my hand on the hottest part (probably the exhaust manifold) I would start washing. Then it happened. I washed my Mazda 626 engine, being careful as always. Engine wouldn't start. Using an air compressor and paper towels, I carefully dried out the distributor and all the plug wires. It started, but it ran rough. I ran it a while to heart it up, and left the hood open. Came back in 3 hours, it started but ran a bit rough. I let it run for about 10 minutes, and saw smoke. The cat converter was RED HOT. That was obviously caused by the miss, as raw fuel from a dead cylinder got into the converter. It took me another 2 hours to get it dried out completely, and I'm lucky the car didn't burn down. SignatureBob >>THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > It took me another 2 hours to get it dried out completely, and I'm lucky > the car didn't burn down. Hyundais don't have distributors anymore. Problem solved. Regardless, I would never let a rough-running engine run that long for any reason, whether I had just rinsed the engine bay or not. >I have had good luck with a pressure washer. I was always careful not to >blast the distributor, alternator, and harness plugs. I would do it with the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >It took me another 2 hours to get it dried out completely, and I'm lucky >the car didn't burn down. Wow. I hope I do not have the same problem. I carefully cleaned around the engine under the hood but something must be wet. The car starts and idles really rough. The engine knocks on low rpm. The Check Engine Light is still blinking. Everything looks dry but I will wait until morning before driving again. Hope I do not end up with the cleanest piece of junk. >>I have had good luck with a pressure washer. I was always careful not to >>blast the distributor, alternator, and harness plugs. I would do it with the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Hope I do not end up with the cleanest piece of junk. Did you clean it with the engine warm (not hot!)? I tend to wait 30 minutes or so (drip water on the exhaust manifold if you can get to it, and what the water just evaporates quickly, but doesn't "hiss", then I clean the engine. Doing so means you'll have enough residual heat to help dry things out pretty well. I personally don't start the engine right after washing it. I want things to have time to dry out before running it. Matt >Did you clean it with the engine warm (not hot!)? I tend to wait 30 >minutes or so (drip water on the exhaust manifold if you can get to it, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Matt The car sat for about 2 hours then I moved it out of the garage and started hosing. If anything the engine was not warm. In hindsight, I agree that allowing the parts to dry before driving is a good idea. Anyways, I just started the car again. It is starting to sound better so things must be drier. The CEL is still blinking. Hope things return to normal by morning. >>I have had good luck with a pressure washer. I was always careful not to >>blast the distributor, alternator, and harness plugs. I would do it with the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Hope I do not end up with the cleanest piece of junk. How much mileage is on your car? If you're having problems like that, it may well be that your wires and/or plugs are due for replacement (if your car has a distributor, odds are that the cap is cracked). Check to make sure that the plugs wells are not filled with water. When the engine is running, listen for electrical crackling sounds under the hood and look at the wires, plugs and coil packs (or distributor) for arcing. What you are experiencing is not normal and it indicates an electrical problem that needs to be addressed. >How much mileage is on your car? If you're having problems like that, it >may well be that your wires and/or plugs are due for replacement (if [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >What you are experiencing is not normal and it indicates an electrical >problem that needs to be addressed. The car is a 2001 Accent with 123,000km but the plugs and wires were replaced 2 years ago. I remove the leads at the coil side and they seem dry, the engine side is under a cover. The car is running just slightly better after drying all night. It idles rough and the engine knocks at low rpm when I am on the road. The exhaust dropped black carbon on my floor this morning. The plastic piece (spoiler thing) in front of the cat? has melted but I cannot be sure that this is recent. I will get it in to service next week. Funny thing is I had no problems and just wanted to clean my car. >>How much mileage is on your car? If you're having problems like that, it >>may well be that your wires and/or plugs are due for replacement (if [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > piece (spoiler thing) in front of the cat? has melted but I cannot be > sure that this is recent. I will get it in to service next week. It sounds like you ingested some water into the engine. This is pretty hard to do, but if the engine is making a mechanical knocking sound, it is possible that you ingested enough water to get a hydraulic lock in a cylinder when you first started it and bent a rod, cracked a piston, or cracked or chipped a valve. Again, this is really hard to do with modern intake systems, but it isn't impossible if you get water hard enough into the intake system. Good luck at the garage. > Funny thing is I had no problems and just wanted to clean my car. There's an old saying about not fixing things that aren't broken. Washing an engine certainly can be done without harm, but done wrong there is the potential for great harm to the engine. It is just like folks that speed into water a foot deep and wonder why they kill their engine. Matt >It sounds like you ingested some water into the engine. This is pretty >hard to do, but if the engine is making a mechanical knocking sound, it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Matt I doubt that the engine took on water because I did not use that much to clean. I was careful to clean around the engine bay only and not the engine. If anything I should have left it to dry instead of driving it right away with the CEL blinking. Live and learn. >>It sounds like you ingested some water into the engine. This is pretty >>hard to do, but if the engine is making a mechanical knocking sound, it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the engine. If anything I should have left it to dry instead of > driving it right away with the CEL blinking. Live and learn. The weird part is that you say the engine is making a knocking sound. That isn't typical of an electrical problem. And the only way I know of for water to cause an engine to make a knocking sound is to get a hydraulic lock in a cylinder and bend or crack some metal. Maybe others here can think of another way that a little water could cause a knocking sound, but I can't. The rough idle could easily be a wet ignition component or sensor, but the knocking sound is of much more concern. Let us know what you find at the garage next week. Matt >The weird part is that you say the engine is making a knocking sound. >That isn't typical of an electrical problem. And the only way I know of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Matt Maybe I am not describing the problem correctly. It is definitely a rough idle but no "knock" sound when it is parked. Only when I am driving at low rpm, it feels like the engine is near stalled then I hear the "knock", may not be the engine but somewhere else. I play with the throttle to keep the car moving. The car is drivable but I do not want anymore problems. Wonder if I should get it towed. >>The weird part is that you say the engine is making a knocking sound. >>That isn't typical of an electrical problem. And the only way I know of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > hear the "knock", may not be the engine but somewhere else. I play > with the throttle to keep the car moving. If the engine is nearly stalling all of the time, then maybe the knocking isn't a mechanical failure. No way to tell without hearing it first-hand. If you are sure you didn't get a lot of water into the intake, then I don't see how you could have done any serious damage to your engine. > The car is drivable but I do not want anymore problems. > Wonder if I should get it towed. It doesn't seem like driving it should cause any further damage, although if it is misfiring badly it is possible to dump enough raw gas into the exhaust system to burn up the catalytic converter and that is a pretty expensive repair. Matt >It doesn't seem like driving it should cause any further damage, >although if it is misfiring badly it is possible to dump enough raw gas >into the exhaust system to burn up the catalytic converter and that is a >pretty expensive repair. > >Matt I afraid that is what has happened. I have decided not to replace the catalytic converter if it is needed. Is it an option to fix just the misfiring and continue driving the car with a damaged catalytic converter? Thanks for your time. Accent, you can always try a test pipe on the cat ( snicker ), I know in the older days we used to have a pipe made to replace the cat.... Im not so sure its a good idea these days the way technology has changed but if you can get a muffler shop to make you one JUST TO TEST and see if the cat is bad it may be worth the $25 - $30 to try it. Tunez >>It doesn't seem like driving it should cause any further damage, >>although if it is misfiring badly it is possible to dump enough raw gas [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks for your time. >>It doesn't seem like driving it should cause any further damage, >>although if it is misfiring badly it is possible to dump enough raw gas [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks for your time. It depends on the damage. Burning raw gas often melts part of the converter substrate and this will increase back pressure, sometimes dramatically. Your car will NOT run well if that is the case. Also, and I'm not familiar with the Accent to be sure, many cars now have both an upstream and downstream oxygen sensor. If the catcon isn't working properly, this will light the check engine light. In many states now this will prevent your car from passing the annual inspection. And that is to say nothing of the pollution you are spewing into the environment. It will be better to get it fixed correctly, even if that does require a new catcon. Matt re: drying engine if something gets tooo damp and doesn't start or run up to snuff, then what would WD-40 hurt (which parts shouldn't be sprayed with wd-40)? it's considered more of a "dryer" than lubricant from what i've previously ascertained in these n.g.s, tho i sort of use it for everything along with duct tape >I afraid that is what has happened. I have decided not to replace the >catalytic converter if it is needed. Is it an option to fix just the >misfiring and continue driving the car with a damaged catalytic >converter? I overheated my cat converter just the way you apparently did. Aside from smoke, flame, and consternation, it didn't hurt anything. The cat lasted another 3 or 4 years until I sold the car. The secret to drying the engine out is to run the engine al little, and dry it a lot. Keep the hood open and in full sun and wind if you can. SignatureBob >>> It sounds like you ingested some water into the engine. This is >>> pretty hard to do, but if the engine is making a mechanical knocking [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The rough idle could easily be a wet ignition component or sensor, but > the knocking sound is of much more concern. The knocking is likely caused by cross-firing cylinders. >>> How much mileage is on your car? If you're having problems like that, >>> it may well be that your wires and/or plugs are due for replacement [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > modern intake systems, but it isn't impossible if you get water hard > enough into the intake system. Good luck at the garage. Based on the fact that he's getting sooty exhaust and it appears that the catalytic converter has overheated, I'd say that's definitely NOT the case. It would be almost impossible to do, anyway. It's far more likely that he just has a bad misfire due to an electrical problem. That would explain both the overheated cat and the soot. >>How much mileage is on your car? If you're having problems like that, it >>may well be that your wires and/or plugs are due for replacement (if [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > replaced 2 years ago. I remove the leads at the coil side and they > seem dry, the engine side is under a cover. What brand of wires and plugs were installed? Some aftermarket wires are junk right out of the box. Remove the cover from the engine and check underneath. You may find the source of the electrical problems there. >What brand of wires and plugs were installed? Some aftermarket wires are >junk right out of the box. > >Remove the cover from the engine and check underneath. You may find the >source of the electrical problems there. The car has been maintained at a Hyundai dealership. I assume that they will use OEM parts but I really have no clue. This time the car went to an independent garage. The scan and scope test indicates the a complete tune up is needed including wires and plugs. Any damage to the catco will have to be assessed after the tuneup. >>What brand of wires and plugs were installed? Some aftermarket wires are >>junk right out of the box. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The car has been maintained at a Hyundai dealership. I assume that > they will use OEM parts but I really have no clue. I'm sure that's the case. > This time the car went to an independent garage. The scan and scope > test indicates the a complete tune up is needed including wires and > plugs. Did you check it out yourself, first? Make sure the garage saves the old parts. If the problem turns out to be something else, the old parts will make good spares. This is also work you should consider doing yourself, as it's easy and at least you know what was done and how. There's really nothing more to a "tune-up" unless you want to replace the air filter, too. > Any damage to the catco will have to be assessed after the > tuneup. Hopefully, there won't be any residual problems. >Did you check it out yourself, first? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >There's really nothing more to a "tune-up" unless you want to replace >the air filter, too. I did not bother checking it out first and decided to leave it to the professionals. The tuneup must be more to it because it comes with a high cost. The OEM air filter is brand new. I will leave the old parts to the garage. What other items should be in a complete $300 tune up with $100 scope and scan test? 1. wires and plugs 2. oil and filter (2000km earlier than scheduled) 3. valve timing >>Did you check it out yourself, first? >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I did not bother checking it out first and decided to leave it to the > professionals. That may have been a mistake. > The tuneup must be more to it because it comes with a > high cost. The OEM air filter is brand new. OK. > I will leave the old parts to the garage. Why? You paid for them, didn't you? If they're relatively new, they'll make good spares. > What other items should be in a complete $300 tune up with $100 scope > and scan test? > > 1. wires and plugs > 2. oil and filter (2000km earlier than scheduled) > 3. valve timing There is no way you should be spending $300 on a tune up. Wires and plugs should be under $100. If you don't need an oil change for another 2K miles, don't do it. There is no adjustment for valve timing. $100 for "scope and scan" is ridiculous, too. It sounds like you're getting screwed. Just because someone gets paid for working on cars, it doesn't make them true "professionals". >There is no way you should be spending $300 on a tune up. Wires and >plugs should be under $100. If you don't need an oil change for another >2K miles, don't do it. There is no adjustment for valve timing. $100 for >"scope and scan" is ridiculous, too. It sounds like you're getting >screwed. Just because someone gets paid for working on cars, it doesn't >make them true "professionals". I have a feeling that I am not getting the best value for my money because the car was running fine before my ordeal. I will see what is on the itemized bill when I pick up my car. Would be nice if I also got a coolant flush, transmission flush and new fuel filter. It is too bad that I did not follow your good advice and check the plugs and wires. Next time the car is misfiring, it will be the first things to be checked. >>There is no way you should be spending $300 on a tune up. Wires and >>plugs should be under $100. If you don't need an oil change for another [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > on the itemized bill when I pick up my car. Would be nice if I also > got a coolant flush, transmission flush and new fuel filter. With all due respect, these are things you should find out BEFORE you agree to any service. > It is too bad that I did not follow your good advice and check the > plugs and wires. Next time the car is misfiring, it will be the first > things to be checked. Live and learn, I guess. >With all due respect, these are things you should find out BEFORE you >agree to any service. I understand your point. My thinking is that an agreement was made when I handover my car keys. I believe a OBD2 reader will pay for itself. Wait and see. >>With all due respect, these are things you should find out BEFORE you >>agree to any service. > > I understand your point. My thinking is that an agreement was made > when I handover my car keys. No, nothing is agreed to until you sign the authorization paperwork. If you don't like what you hear, you have every right to take your car and leave. I know that can be tough to do at times, but that's exactly what crooked repair shops count on. You have to be willing to say "no". > I believe a OBD2 reader will pay for itself. Wait and see. Possibly. I don't have one yet, but that's because I haven't needed it. |
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