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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / July 2006

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Frequent -3K- mandatory service tro[s tp tej Hyundai dealership necessary for warranty maintenance ?

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Fred Atlas - 28 Jul 2006 11:54 GMT
The element of required service checkups and actions. They are
necessary in those frequent intervals in order to keep the warranty
intact ?

There is apparently a difference of frequency of required service of
say, Mazda (Tribute) versus Hyundai Tucson or Santa Fe

This has brought a new view for me as I am accustomed to frequent,
very low cost oil changes and maintenance on my older Volvo. How I was
treated, those years ago, by a Volvo corporate rep who invalidated my
request to address my car issues, thus I would never dream of buying a
new Volvo again.

But back to the point. If the Hyundai Santa Fe required service every
3K miles and the Mazda required it only every 5 to 7.5K, then those
ludicrously exorbitant oil changes take on a different view.

Perhaps the nature of newer cars is now out of the hands of the owners
and into the hands of designated techs with automotive computers.

I have always trusted myself with oil changes than anyone else. I have
always used better oil and better filters, etc.  Particularly at $48
an oil change at the Hyundai dealership

Any sage words on this subject are welcome.
Brian Nystrom - 28 Jul 2006 12:51 GMT
Read the Maintenance Log that came with your vehicle. Hyundai's standard
oil change interval is 7500 miles. As long as you adhere to that, your
warranty is good. You DON'T have to take the vehicle to the dealer for
service, either. Simply document your oil changes and you'll be fine.
This is true for all other required maintenance, as well.
Mike Marlow - 28 Jul 2006 13:09 GMT
> The element of required service checkups and actions. They are
> necessary in those frequent intervals in order to keep the warranty
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> always used better oil and better filters, etc.  Particularly at $48
> an oil change at the Hyundai dealership

You can still do your own oil changes without threatening your warranty.  If
you look at the Hyundai owner's manual you will see that nothing in it
precludes owner maintenance.  There are some areas where you either must, or
you will want to use Hyundai parts but Hyundai does not insist you use any
authorized dealer for the work.

Use dino oil and continue to change it at the intervals you're familiar
with, or use synthetic and you can change it at the longer intervals.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Brian Nystrom - 28 Jul 2006 21:46 GMT
> You can still do your own oil changes without threatening your warranty.  If
> you look at the Hyundai owner's manual you will see that nothing in it
> precludes owner maintenance.  There are some areas where you either must, or
> you will want to use Hyundai parts but Hyundai does not insist you use any
> authorized dealer for the work.

It has nothing to do with Hyundai. Federal law (the Moss-Magnussen
Warranty Act) stipulates that if a company requires dealer maintenance
or OEM parts, they must be provided free of charge.
Rev. Tom Wenndt - 28 Jul 2006 15:13 GMT
In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.

I don't do this flippantly.  I have an '02 Elantra, and after having owned
it for six months, and about two oil changes, the oil itself now tells me to
change it every 6000 miles (I always use synthetic).  I also have an
Oldsmobile that has become my first (ever) vehicle to seem perfectly fine
with the 7500 mile interval.

But then I have an '04 Kia Sedona, and I don't dare go a mile more than 4000
with it, no matter what oil I use.  In years past, I had a Pontiac car built
by Daewoo of Korea that pretty much maxed out its oil at 2500 miles, even
using synthetic.

Mazda, or whomever, may make all the recommendations they want.  But similar
recommendations by Toyota have resulted in a bad sludging problem in a lot
of Camry engines - problems that could have been avoided if the owners would
have paid closer attention to their oil, and changed it when it really
needed it, rather than when a maintenace book told them to.

This doesn't necessarily work with other services (I SERIOUSLY advise people
to change timing belts at or by the recommended maintenance interval, for
example).  But for oil, it has never failed me.  And for a person who puts
200,000 miles and more on his cars, I have needed my oil to do what it does
best in my car engines.

So, whichever vehicle one buys (my wife SO dearly loves the Santa Fe), just
watch your oil, and keep it changed as (really) needed, and document all
your oil changes.

Cars may be getting complicated, but not when it comes to changing oil
(though it sounds like all the extra steps required in the Tucson is trying
to change that.  That alone would be enough for a person who changes all his
own oil - like me - to look elsewhere).  Change it yourself, get better oil
and better filters for less money, and you will really get into watching
your own oil and intervals.

Hope this helps.

Tom Wenndt

> The element of required service checkups and actions. They are
> necessary in those frequent intervals in order to keep the warranty
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Any sage words on this subject are welcome.
Partner - 28 Jul 2006 16:04 GMT
Well, are you going to share with us exactly what or how the oil tells you
that it wants to be changed(or not!)?

> In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
> recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>>
>> Any sage words on this subject are welcome.
Brian Nystrom - 28 Jul 2006 21:59 GMT
> Well, are you going to share with us exactly what or how the oil tells you
> that it wants to be changed(or not!)?

Perhaps he's an "engine whisperer"...  ;-)

Unless one has laboratory analysis done on the oil, there's not much you
can tell by looking at it. All oil gets dirty, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that it needs to be changed, it just means that it's
doing its job. People who change their oil more often than necessary
typically do so either because it make them feel good or because "That's
what my dad/uncle/friend/neighbor/mechanic/hairdresser did and his cars
lasted a gazillion miles!" People are just unwilling to allow "the myth
of the 3000 mile oil change" to die the ignoble death it deserves, much
to the amusement and profit of the oil companies.

Considering that car companies test the snot of their products and
they're responsible for the consequences if their oil change intervals
cause problems, there's nothing for them to gain by recommending
intervals that aren't appropriate. THEY know a heck of a lot more about
their engines than we do, so it simply makes sense to follow their
recommendations.
Fred Atlas - 29 Jul 2006 16:54 GMT
>Well, are you going to share with us exactly what or how the oil tells you
>that it wants to be changed(or not!)?

'Took a while to get back to the computer
Actually, I had changed my standard quality dino oil every 1,500
miles. And now with Chevron's better DELO oil, I have been changing it
every 2K to 2.5 K or so. It is a relatively easy and inexpensive way
to treat well one's car.

I have seen service stations use that bulk oil, which I don't trust
(and overfill it) and low grade oil filters.
That is part of why I had been so displeased with the idea of being
chained to the dealership at those insane oil change prices, if that
were to be the case. This is what some other forum posters said or
intimated.

But now I understand that the dealership cannot force an owner to do
the oil changes there at the dealership. I still don't know how one
journals or documents as proof, that one did do the correct and timely
servicing, but I imagine that I can and will find out.

I am looking at the element of paying extra for an extended wrap
around bumper to bumper warranty - which might be  a good idea with a
car coming from a dealership lot. Or might be not necessary beyond the
time period of the exiting bumper to bumper warranty and how long one
keeps a car, in actuality.
hyundaitech - 29 Jul 2006 21:08 GMT
For documentation, keep all your receipts (from work done or parts
purchases) and keep a log (with date and mileage) of any work you did
yourself.
Brian Nystrom - 31 Jul 2006 13:18 GMT
>>Well, are you going to share with us exactly what or how the oil tells you
>>that it wants to be changed(or not!)?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> every 2K to 2.5 K or so. It is a relatively easy and inexpensive way
> to treat well one's car.

Actually, it's a complete waste of a dwindling resource. Changing your
oil more frequently than necessary is environmentally irresponsible and
provides NO benefits to your engine.

> But now I understand that the dealership cannot force an owner to do
> the oil changes there at the dealership. I still don't know how one
> journals or documents as proof, that one did do the correct and timely
> servicing, but I imagine that I can and will find out.

As I said before, your car came with a Maintenance Log - or at least it
should have. Check the documentation package that came with the car.

> I am looking at the element of paying extra for an extended wrap
> around bumper to bumper warranty - which might be  a good idea with a
> car coming from a dealership lot. Or might be not necessary beyond the
> time period of the exiting bumper to bumper warranty and how long one
> keeps a car, in actuality.

Waste of money, IMO. Additionally, aftermarket warranty companies have a
disturbing habit of going out of business. If the extended warranty
isn't from the factory, you can't count on it being there when you need it.
Matt Whiting - 28 Jul 2006 22:22 GMT
> In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
> recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.
>
> I don't do this flippantly.  I have an '02 Elantra, and after having owned
> it for six months, and about two oil changes, the oil itself now tells me to
> change it every 6000 miles (I always use synthetic).  

Your oil talks to you?

Matt
Eric G. - 29 Jul 2006 00:37 GMT
>> In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
>> recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Your oil talks to you?

Matt, he is a Reverand.  I guess it is the Church of the Fossil Fuels :-)  
Oh wait, that would make him a US politician, I mean a Republican :-P

Eric
JS - 29 Jul 2006 10:28 GMT
>>> In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
>>> recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Matt, he is a Reverand.  I guess it is the Church of the Fossil Fuels :-)  
> Oh wait, that would make him a US politician, I mean a Republican :-P

Republicans are politicians?  I thought you had to be human to be a
politician...  ;)

JS
Brian Nystrom - 29 Jul 2006 11:36 GMT
>>>> In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
>>>> recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Republicans are politicians?  I thought you had to be human to be a
> politician...  ;)

Fortunately for Democrats, to be a politician, you don't have to be
capable of rational thought or be able to form a coherent sentence.
Eric G. - 29 Jul 2006 15:14 GMT
Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in news:XSGyg.54$eG.44
@trndny08:

>> Republicans are politicians?  I thought you had to be human to be a
>> politician...  ;)
>
> Fortunately for Democrats, to be a politician, you don't have to be
> capable of rational thought or be able to form a coherent sentence.

So Bush is a Democrat now?
JS - 29 Jul 2006 11:38 GMT
> In every car I have ever owned, I have always ended up ignoring the
> recommended maintenance frequency when it comes to oil changes.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> have paid closer attention to their oil, and changed it when it really
> needed it, rather than when a maintenace book told them to.

Yep.  I think another major part of the problem is the oil filter
itself.  The Santa Fe's factory filter has at least 2x more surface area
than any "book" aftermarket filter I've found for the Santa Fe so far.

1995 Corvette Non-ZR1 oil filter - Wix Part 51324
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51324

2001 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.7 oil filter - Wix part 51334
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51334

The 51324 fits great on our 01 and 03 Santa Fe 2.7's.  The O-ring size
is slightly larger than the book OEM replacement but the plate still has
3mm to spare all around.  I saw one slightly larger filter available
that would fit and meet the required specs but it wasn't a regularly
stocked item at my local parts houses (its some Isuzu diesel filter...)

> This doesn't necessarily work with other services (I SERIOUSLY advise people
> to change timing belts at or by the recommended maintenance interval, for
> example).  But for oil, it has never failed me.  And for a person who puts
> 200,000 miles and more on his cars, I have needed my oil to do what it does
> best in my car engines.

More importantly people should take the time to inspect the timing belt
at least every 20k miles.  Its not that hard to get the cover off, even
on the 2.7...

> So, whichever vehicle one buys (my wife SO dearly loves the Santa Fe), just
> watch your oil, and keep it changed as (really) needed, and document all
> your oil changes.

Documenting maintenance leads to better resale values, too.

> Cars may be getting complicated, but not when it comes to changing oil
> (though it sounds like all the extra steps required in the Tucson is trying
> to change that.  That alone would be enough for a person who changes all his
> own oil - like me - to look elsewhere).  Change it yourself, get better oil
> and better filters for less money, and you will really get into watching
> your own oil and intervals.

Yep.  You don't even have to dig deep in your wallet to get decent oil
these days.  Walmart sells their supertech full-synthetic in 5 quart
bottles for about the same price as Castrol GTX dino.  Its not quite
Mobil-1, but unless you race or abusively tow the increased upper-end
thermal capacity of Mobil1 isn't really required.

Its hard to turn down $2.25/qt vs $5.25/qt...

JS
Mike Marlow - 29 Jul 2006 14:25 GMT
> More importantly people should take the time to inspect the timing belt
> at least every 20k miles.  Its not that hard to get the cover off, even
> on the 2.7...

Even for those of us who do our own work and who are not intimidated by the
idea of opening up the front of a motor, this is an extreme suggestion.  It
might feel good to wrench off a timing cover and look at a belt, but this
degree of inspection offers absolutely no value.

> > So, whichever vehicle one buys (my wife SO dearly loves the Santa Fe), just
> > watch your oil, and keep it changed as (really) needed, and document all
> > your oil changes.
>
> Documenting maintenance leads to better resale values, too.

Actually, it does not add much to the resale value of a car.  If you are
trading a vehicle in, the trade in values are pretty much dictated by book
values.  A poorly maintained vehicle is pretty quickly identified by visual
indicators.  A lack of documentation of such things as oil changes does not
affect the value.  Yeah - if you take all of your records in the sales rep
may give you lip service by telling you how much that up'ed the value of
your car but it didn't.  These days it's too easy for everyone on the street
to know the value of a car for those records to be of much value even in a
private sale.

> Yep.  You don't even have to dig deep in your wallet to get decent oil
> these days.  Walmart sells their supertech full-synthetic in 5 quart
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Its hard to turn down $2.25/qt vs $5.25/qt...

Agreed.  Whether dino oil or synthetic, today's oils are really very good.
All will go longer and still protect the engine, than the oild change
frequencies we used to know, and probably still live by today.  I use dino
oil and still change at 4,000.  Every oil today will go longer than that,
especially under our normal driving conditions, but old habits die hard and
it's just too easy a job to perform for me to lose any sleep over having
changed it too early.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Richard - 30 Jul 2006 09:54 GMT
With sincere curiosity, assuming it is a belt rather than a chain, on
the Hyundai SUVs, what would one specifically look for in terms of
problems looming with the timing belt / chain. I had the previous
assumption that one changes it well ahead of the manufacturer's
recommended interval as it will just pop when its life is up.,,,

are there wear signs or the like ?

>More importantly people should take the time to inspect the timing belt
>at least every 20k miles.  Its not that hard to get the cover off, even
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>JS
Mike Marlow - 30 Jul 2006 12:31 GMT
> With sincere curiosity, assuming it is a belt rather than a chain, on
> the Hyundai SUVs, what would one specifically look for in terms of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> are there wear signs or the like ?

First off, the timing belt issues in the 6 cylinder go away in 2006 model
year vehicles.  I'm not sure about the 4 cylinders.  In '06 Hyundai went to
a different 6 cylinder and it uses a chain.

For pre-06 models, there really is nothing to look at or for.  The chance of
any problems inside the timing cover which would provide a visual clue of a
pending belt failure are neglible.  Unless a timing belt is exposed to
severe conditions (which would include extremely high mileage), it typically
does not show indicators that you'd be looking for.  If you are looking for
cracking or signs of edge wear or slack or the likes, you are just not
likely to see those things, even on a belt that is in jeopardy of failure.

History has borne out however, across a myriad of vehicle manufacturers,
that timing belts have a predictable life and that 60,000 (Hyundai's
suggested interval is fairly consistent with other manufacturers) is a
prudent maintenance point.  This would provide for using the term
"preventative" in association with the word maintenance.  Changing it early
is just a waste of money.  Anomolies not withstanding.  The 60,000 mile
interval already has a well studied protection factor built into it.

What will failures appear like?  Most commonly, the belt just breaks.  It is
very common to have no audible or visual ques prior to the event.

The best and easiest approach to your concerns - follow the manufacturer's
recommended schedule.  There are literally tens of thousands of these
vehicles out there that continue to run just great with nothing more than
that practice of following Hyundai's recommendations.

Signature

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Matt Whiting - 30 Jul 2006 13:24 GMT
>>With sincere curiosity, assuming it is a belt rather than a chain, on
>>the Hyundai SUVs, what would one specifically look for in terms of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> year vehicles.  I'm not sure about the 4 cylinders.  In '06 Hyundai went to
> a different 6 cylinder and it uses a chain.

My 2.4 claims it has a chain also.

Matt
hyundaitech - 28 Jul 2006 17:29 GMT
You're *never* required to have your car serviced at the dealer.  Of
course, if you'd like free warranty service, no other place will be
willing to give you that.

Like Brian said, anyone can change your oil.  Furthermore, you're only
*required* to do it every 7500 miles, unless you fall into their severe
usage category.  I think this interval is too long, though.  My opinion is
you'd be better off if you did it every 3k.  But again, you can do that
yourself, or any facility of your choosing can do it for you.

If your dealer has told you that you must use their services to keep your
warranty intact, they are lying-- look for another dealer close by.
 
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