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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / October 2006Wheels/Snow Tires
I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra) steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? Also, does anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them and I'm not familiar with any other source. I have about 32k on the original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks. > I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using > OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer > driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks. Junk yard. I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > Junk yard. > > I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I > drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the > seasons, and I live north of Syracuse. What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they completely suck. I fully agree with the concept of dedicated snow tires and rims. IMHO, the cost is is reasonable and you will have much better traction in the winter. I live further south now and do not swap out but I do keep a set of cables/chains in the trunk of my 2003 Elantra just in case. They take about 10 minutes to install. I only use them roughly once or twice a year but well worth the ~$25 that Wal-mart sells them for.. > > Junk yard. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they > completely suck. Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a snow tire in decades. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>> Junk yard. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a > snow tire in decades. That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter tires is night and day. > That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" > crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor > traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior > tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter > tires is night and day. We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving. I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving conditions without them. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" >> crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving > conditions without them. Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a big difference. How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter tires. The fact that most people get by in winter with "all season" junk on their cars doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate the difference that dedicated winter tires make. In fact, everyone I've convinced to try real winter tires has been amazed at the difference. The reason that they're not more popular are obvious: - Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for winter conditions. - Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them. - Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars on unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles when they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower initial cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure. - Many parts of the country don't get enough snow to justify separate winter tires. By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect me to agree with you. "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message > The reason that they're not more popular are obvious: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > - Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them. You forgot to add "the roads are plowed much better and faster now than they were years ago" While you both make good points, I've not had a situation personally where a better tire would have made a big difference. Maybe I'm just lucky. If I lived on a more rural road, had a 2000 foot unplowed, rut filled, dirt driveway, then yes, I've have a better winter tire. I live on a hill and pull out of my driveway and make a left turn up the hill. In 25 years, I've never gotten stuck, slid, or did not make it. I did have the traction control kick in a couple of times That 500 feet is usually the worst part of my commute. Years ago, it was common to drive with snow tires and even chains over them at times. In some parts of the country, it is still needed. > - Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars on > unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles when > they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower initial > cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure. Some people should not drive if a snowflake falls no matter what tires they have. Going to work in the snow one day, I rounded a curve and saw a car that was being towed out from the side where the woman slid off the road. Evidently, it was a gentle slide and no damage was done because on the way home, there she was again, on a different stretch of road where she slid off again. Given that thousands of cars passed that same road all day and only one managed to slide off (twice), you just have to wonder. > "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >> The reason that they're not more popular are obvious: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You forgot to add "the roads are plowed much better and faster now than they > were years ago" That's true. The roads around here (NH) are generally only a mess during and immediately after storms. Cross the border into the People's Republic of Massachusetts and it's a different story. ;-) > While you both make good points, I've not had a situation personally where a > better tire would have made a big difference. Maybe I'm just lucky. If I > lived on a more rural road, had a 2000 foot unplowed, rut filled, dirt > driveway, then yes, I've have a better winter tire. That's really not the point. The difference in traction and control in even moderate amounts of snow/slush/ice is substantial. Obviously, it's not mandatory to have winter tires, but they really do help. > I live on a hill and > pull out of my driveway and make a left turn up the hill. In 25 years, I've > never gotten stuck, slid, or did not make it. The last time I got "stuck" was many years ago and it was during the heaviest storm I've ever seen. Snow was falling at 4" per hour! I got bogged down in ~20" of snow when I pulled off into a side road near my house so I could get out, walk home and clear the driveway. It took me all of five minutes to kick enough snow away from car to get moving again, so I don't know if "stuck" is even the right term. > I did have the traction > control kick in a couple of times That 500 feet is usually the worst part > of my commute. > > Years ago, it was common to drive with snow tires and even chains over them > at times. In some parts of the country, it is still needed. Yeah, times have changed, though I don't recall ever owning tire chains. >> - Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars on >> unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles when [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > again. Given that thousands of cars passed that same road all day and only > one managed to slide off (twice), you just have to wonder. I hear ya! In the past few years I've noticed an increase in the number of cars I see off the side of the road on their roofs. These are cars, mind you, not SUVs as one might expect. In many cases, it's not at all clear how it happened. It seems that as cars get more sophisticated, drivers rely more on technology and less on skill, largely because they're told they can. Unfortunately, that technology often lets them down when they need it most. Then again, some people should just never be given a driver's license at all... > That's true. The roads around here (NH) are generally only a mess during > and immediately after storms. Cross the border into the People's > Republic of Massachusetts and it's a different story. ;-) Yeahbut the real problem in the great state of oblivion is the drivers, not the driving conditions. Volvo's ought to be made illegal... > The last time I got "stuck" was many years ago and it was during the > heaviest storm I've ever seen. Snow was falling at 4" per hour! I got > bogged down in ~20" of snow when I pulled off into a side road near my > house so I could get out, walk home and clear the driveway. It took me > all of five minutes to kick enough snow away from car to get moving > again, so I don't know if "stuck" is even the right term. That's a big part of my position. I could make the very same statement, using just radial tires. Now that we've both said that... > Yeah, times have changed, though I don't recall ever owning tire chains. Ugh! I do. For my first car. Back in the days of bias ply tires. > I hear ya! In the past few years I've noticed an increase in the number > of cars I see off the side of the road on their roofs. These are cars, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > down when they need it most. Then again, some people should just never > be given a driver's license at all... Therein lies what I believe to be the biggest downfall of technology in cars. Not that I am opposed to technology at all, but the effect of certain improvements is often a certain degradation. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a > big difference. That's certainly your perrogative. > How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was > the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this > type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter > tires. You seem to forget our conversation from this time last year about the same topic. I explained that my best friend uses snows on his car and I've had plenty of first hand direct comparison. > - Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR > tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for > winter conditions. What about the evidence from people who drive in the snow for years with no problems using them? That's not evidence enough for you? > By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect > me to agree with you. Hold that last line up to a mirror and read it to yourself. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" >>crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving > conditions without them. I'm with you Mike. My Chevy truck came with Goodyear AT tires which are essentially all season tires for a truck. I plowed snow with them and never even had to put my chains on, although a few times I probably should have. When they got worn they didn't work as well as is to be expected. I replaced them with the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find since I plow a long driveway. I expected a dramatic increase in traction. The difference in plowing traction was nothing more than I would have expected from simply having new tires. However the different in noise was dramatic. I never forget that I now have REAL mud and snow tires on as they howl like crazy! I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-) Matt >>> That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" >>> crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > in noise was dramatic. I never forget that I now have REAL mud and snow > tires on as they howl like crazy! There's a big difference between car and truck tires. We're talking cars here, or at least I am. > I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some > conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, > they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. The difference is not much on dry pavement and the difference on wet pavement depends on the amount of water. The more there is, the less the difference. > Even in northern PA, we > have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than > we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want > better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of > the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-) That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the problems...? >> Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the >> roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the > problems...? It may for some folks, but I've driven in snow for 30+ years and it hasn't been a problem. The only accident I've had occurred just last December on a nice dry day ... I was hit by a drunk. Matt >>>> Junk yard. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter > tires is night and day. Brian, I don't disagree with you here, but as I just wrote in reply to Mike's post "I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)" If I lived in an area where snow, slush and ice prevailed more than 50% of the winter days, then I'd almost certainly buy snow tires. However, where I live the number of days with these conditions is, at best, 10% of my driving days. I therefore optimize for the conditions that prevail most of the time. Matt >>>>> Junk yard. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > of my driving days. I therefore optimize for the conditions that > prevail most of the time. And I just wrote "That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the problems...?" I agree that much of the time they're not necessary, but that's even more true of AWD and 4WD, yet look at how many people buy vehicles with them. It's ironic that almost all of them would be better off simply with better tires, or even with just checking their tire pressures once in a while. ;-) "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message > I agree that much of the time they're not necessary, but that's even more > true of AWD and 4WD, yet look at how many people buy vehicles with them. > It's ironic that almost all of them would be better off simply with better > tires, or even with just checking their tire pressures once in a while. > ;-) Most would be better off slowing down a bit too. I don't have any statistics, but it seems as though many of the AWD and 4WD drivers think they can steer and stop in snow the same as they drive all the time. I've seen many of them by the side of the road. They don't comprehend the difference between traction to move through deep snow versus traction on slippery road. Slowing from 75 to 70 just doesn't do it., no matter what tires you have. > "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >> I agree that much of the time they're not necessary, but that's even more [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > slippery road. Slowing from 75 to 70 just doesn't do it., no matter what > tires you have. Absolutely! They don't understand that the extra traction that allows them to accelerate to extra-legal speeds in snow means NOTHING when you have to corner or stop. Many of the truck-based 4WD systems are actually worse for cornering and stopping than FWD. Ignorant lemmings. >> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > have to corner or stop. Many of the truck-based 4WD systems are actually > worse for cornering and stopping than FWD. Ignorant lemmings. Baloney. My truck will easily outrun either of my FWD minivan/cars in the yucky stuff and is much more stable at speed. Why do you think truck based 4WD systems are worse than FWD? Have you ever owned a 4WD truck? Matt Matt "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message > Baloney. My truck will easily outrun either of my FWD minivan/cars in the > yucky stuff and is much more stable at speed. What speed would that be? Surely, you don't think that any car is as stable at 70 mph with an inch of snow/slush on the road as it is when dry. That was my point. What was perfectly safe at 70+ is not very safe when the road is covered, but some people just don't slow down until they are out of control. Relatively speaking, you may be right, but not in absolute terms. > "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > is covered, but some people just don't slow down until they are out of > control. Relatively speaking, you may be right, but not in absolute terms. I believe the claim was that in messy conditions a FWD car is better than a 4WD truck. I don't believe that at all. I have two FWD vehicles and a 4WD pickup. I'll drive the pickup over the FWD cars any day on a snow covered or slushy road. The truck is heavier and less affected by slush. It also handles better in deep snow and is less prone to understeer and easier to recover from a skid should one occur. FWD cars are very tricky to handle in a skid as the response required is nearly opposite that for a RWD vehicle. Matt "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message > I believe the claim was that in messy conditions a FWD car is better than > a 4WD truck. I don't believe that at all. I have two FWD vehicles and a > 4WD pickup. I'll drive the pickup over the FWD cars any day on a snow > covered or slushy road. The truck is heavier and less affected by slush. There are so many combinations of pickups and FWD vehicles that is just not possible to make a general statement that one is better than the other. . > "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >> I believe the claim was that in messy conditions a FWD car is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > just not possible to make a general statement that one is better > than the other. . Not really taking a side here, just an anecdote. My old pickup with part-time 4wd used to take technique to drive in the snow. Since there was no differential in the transfer case, the front and rear wheels were driven the same distance all the time. Any give between the two came from wheel slippage. Thus, it was bad to use on dry pavement. Also, on snow covered pavement, it was usually the front wheels that would slide in a turn. Not a terrible out of control thing, it was just that it really wanted to go straight instead of turning. It could shift on the fly, so I got fairly adept at using 4wd to get up to speed, and going back into rwd to make a corner, then getting back into 4wd. With a stickshift truck it looked like a lot of work, but it worked well. I preferred the part time 4wd though, because I used to off-road a little, and at the time many full time systems with a differential in the middle didn't have a lock. You could have your front wheels on dry ground and your back wheels in mud, and your back wheels would spin with the front not doing much. Enjoy. Ben >> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >>> I believe the claim was that in messy conditions a FWD car is [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > ground and your back wheels in mud, and your back wheels would spin > with the front not doing much. These are the types of systems I was referring to, though perhaps they're not what Matt and Edwin have. In addition to what Ben said, these systems also tend to increase stopping distance in slippery conditions. Let's also keep in mind that there are significant differences between "real" 4WD pickup trucks and truck-based SUVs. I would expect that the former would be good in snow, assuming they had enough weight in the back and the more aggressive tires that are typical. OTOH, when you try to "civilize" the platform for SUV use, you give up performance for comfort. >>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > these systems also tend to increase stopping distance in slippery > conditions. I have a part-time shift-on-the-fly system in my K1500. It steers fine in snow. The only time I notice the slippage front to rear is making a full lock turn at slow speed. Anything above 20 MPH it simply isn't even noticeable if the traction is poor enough to need to be in 4WD. Why do you think they increase stopping distance? Mine stops the same or even slightly shorter in 4WD. The reason is that the solid center differential and locking rear axle act like a poor man's ABS. It makes it hard to lock the wheels as you have to lock at least three of them. > Let's also keep in mind that there are significant differences between > "real" 4WD pickup trucks and truck-based SUVs. I would expect that the > former would be good in snow, assuming they had enough weight in the > back and the more aggressive tires that are typical. OTOH, when you try > to "civilize" the platform for SUV use, you give up performance for > comfort. True, but even with the lesser performance, you are still ahead of FWD cars. Matt >>>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Why do you think they increase stopping distance? I've read studies that indicated that they increase stopping distance and adversely affect handling compared to 2WD versions of the same vehicle. > I've read studies that indicated that they increase stopping distance > and adversely affect handling compared to 2WD versions of the same vehicle. I would bet that is due to the added weight of the 4WD. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> I've read studies that indicated that they increase stopping distance >> and adversely affect handling compared to 2WD versions of the same > vehicle. > > I would bet that is due to the added weight of the 4WD. That and also some effects from locked differentials. >>> I've read studies that indicated that they increase stopping distance >>> and adversely affect handling compared to 2WD versions of the same [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That and also some effects from locked differentials. What affect? The only affect I've seen is beneficial, it prevents the wheels from locking up separately and losing traction. Matt > What affect? The only affect I've seen is beneficial, it prevents the > wheels from locking up separately and losing traction. Hmm... I dunno about snow - but on the sandy-dirt roads around here I'm much better off giving the e-brake a yank when the ABS kicks on during a panic stop... I wouldn't suggest that maneuver on dry pavement though :) JS >> What affect? The only affect I've seen is beneficial, it prevents the >> wheels from locking up separately and losing traction. > > Hmm... I dunno about snow - but on the sandy-dirt roads around here I'm > much better off giving the e-brake a yank when the ABS kicks on during a > panic stop... I wouldn't suggest that maneuver on dry pavement though :) I agree that in sand or deep snow, locking the wheels is actually beneficial to stopping distance. However, virtually all other occasions are better served by incipient lock-up, but not full lock-up. Matt >>I've read studies that indicated that they increase stopping distance >>and adversely affect handling compared to 2WD versions of the same > > vehicle. > > I would bet that is due to the added weight of the 4WD. That is possible, however, extra weight generally also increases traction and largely offsets the inertial factor. Matt >>>>> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I've read studies that indicated that they increase stopping distance > and adversely affect handling compared to 2WD versions of the same vehicle. Can you point me to one? I've never seen such a study or suggestion that this would be the case. It certainly doesn't correlate to my exerience and I can't think of a technical reason why it would be the case. Matt > Let's also keep in mind that there are significant differences between > "real" 4WD pickup trucks and truck-based SUVs. I would expect that the > former would be good in snow, assuming they had enough weight in the > back and the more aggressive tires that are typical. OTOH, when you try > to "civilize" the platform for SUV use, you give up performance for comfort. A little more explanation would be helpful Brian. A Blazer for example, uses the exact same type of power train as its "real" 4WD pickup relative does. Now, some of the import "SUV's" may be a different story - never really looked to see what they had for a power train. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>Let's also keep in mind that there are significant differences between >>"real" 4WD pickup trucks and truck-based SUVs. I would expect that the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > does. Now, some of the import "SUV's" may be a different story - never > really looked to see what they had for a power train. Isn't the Blazer based on the S-10 pickup? That isn't a real pickup! :-) That is a mini-pickup. Matt > Isn't the Blazer based on the S-10 pickup? That isn't a real pickup! > :-) That is a mini-pickup. Hey!!! I had an S-10 pickup years ago. It was a great truck. A real truck... except a bit on the small side. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>Isn't the Blazer based on the S-10 pickup? That isn't a real pickup! >>:-) That is a mini-pickup. > > Hey!!! I had an S-10 pickup years ago. It was a great truck. A real > truck... except a bit on the small side. Chuckle, yes, it was the size I was referring to... :-) Matt >>> Let's also keep in mind that there are significant differences between >>> "real" 4WD pickup trucks and truck-based SUVs. I would expect that the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Matt Well there was a K5 blazer that was based on the half-ton PU model at the time. Had both full and part time 4WD options. Like a 2-door short wheelbase Suburban. JS > "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > There are so many combinations of pickups and FWD vehicles that is just not > possible to make a general statement that one is better than the other. . Yes, that is true to a large degree, however, some generalizations can be made, particularly in slushy conditions. I've driven everything from VW Beetles (the original ones!) to tractor-trailers. A heavier vehicle is almost always better in slush than a lighter one. A tractor trailer can drive through 4" of slush and not even know it is on the road from a stability perspective. My pickup handles 2" with ease. My Beetles got skittish in 1/2" of slush. Matt Mike, 300" of snow per year, Im assumeing you must live in the Redfield/ Tug Hill area. I lived in the Fulton/Mexico area for more years than I care to remember and thats the only places that get that much snow EVERY FREAKIN YEAR !!!!!!!!!! ']['unez >> > Junk yard. >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a > snow tire in decades. > Mike, 300" of snow per year, Im assumeing you must live in the Redfield/ Tug > Hill area. I lived in the Fulton/Mexico area for more years than I care to > remember and thats the only places that get that much snow EVERY FREAKIN > YEAR !!!!!!!!!! The edge of it. Hastings/Parish. I generalize about the area in posts like this because it does represent the typical driving conditions we encounter during the winter. I probably receive somewhat less snow than Redfield in any given storm, but we are not that far off seasonally. I spend alot of time on the road within the Tug Hill area though. The entire Hill averages closer to 300" than 200" most years. The last few sure have not been that heavy though. I know that we do get a lot more than Fulton gets in any given snowfall. It's funny how it goes (as you probably know) - it's like there is a wall where all of a sudden the snow starts and it's like you entered another zone on the planet. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Yup used to do alot of snowmobileing in Happy Valley. Im originally from Central Square, lived there for 23 years then moved down Rt 49 where 49 comes into Rt 3, now I have given up on all the poopy weather and now live in Las Vegas, its nice not having to shovel all that white stuff but here we have to deal with above 100* summer days Oh Well such is life in the big city. ']['unez >> Mike, 300" of snow per year, Im assumeing you must live in the Redfield/ > Tug [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > there is a wall where all of a sudden the snow starts and it's like you > entered another zone on the planet. > Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my > vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt > north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a > snow tire in decades. I got grounded on some remote roads for hours going to a skiing trip in WV last year with my factory supplied Michelin's on my 2003 Elantra. It was a joke, cars going by me left and right while my son and I were attempting to push my wife up the hills and bouncing and sitting on the hood. There was only about 2 inches of snow. Tried everything out of desperation, riding on the edge trying to get traction from the rocks, in the grass, clearing a path with my feet, even tried the traction control which did not help because of the rapid changes caused too much erratic changes causing more problems. A few times the front end would drift too far and slide off the road but we never actually left the road completely. We finally gave up and sat around until and a resort employee on his way to work pulled me with a tow strap the last 3 miles to the resort with his Samuri (4x4 with all season tires oddly enough). Being stuck out in the middle of absolutely nowhere is not a good feeling. I still had at least 4/32 of tread left with about 35k miles on those tires but ruined them tires from the constant spinning (chewed up from at least an hour of trying). The previous year I made it around with no problems where I live but I only have small rolling hills here. I've had one of my 5.0 Mustangs in the snow a few times for one reason or another. It was a joke and the AS tires are just a very small part of that problem. Obviously your luck was much better then mine but I'll keep the chains in my trunk from now on. > We finally gave up and sat around until and a resort > employee on his way to work pulled me with a tow strap the last 3 miles > to the resort with his Samuri (4x4 with all season tires oddly enough). You would not believe the mountains of snow that I have plowed with nothing more than good ASR's on my truck. Of course, it's 4WD, but then again, it's pushing a lot more load than any passenger car simply driving down the road. I generally keep M&S tires on it but I have used simple ASR's in the past. > Being stuck out in the middle of absolutely nowhere is not a good > feeling. I still had at least 4/32 of tread left with about 35k miles > on those tires but ruined them tires from the constant spinning (chewed > up from at least an hour of trying). I'm surprised you chewed off any amount of tread in that experience. With that little traction - thus little coeffiecient of friction, I would not expect you to wear off tread. For me the big thing is the tread design. I look for big sipes and channeling outward. Some might call it an aggressive tread. I stay completely away from touring tires and the more contemporary tread designs typical of today's low profile tires. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my >>vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Obviously your luck was much better then mine but I'll keep the chains > in my trunk from now on. Luck has little to do with it. While 1/8" of tread is still legal in most states, it certainly isn't adequate in snow. And that has nothing to do with the type of tire. No tire will give decent snow traction with that little tread remaining. I run my tires down to 2/32" generally, but only if that occurs during the summer. I just replaced the tires on my minivan and they had a little more than 2/32" left, but it was getting too close to winter to risk running them longer. Matt > I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using > OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra) > steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? There's no problem at all. > Also, does > anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel > wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them > and I'm not familiar with any other source. I bought mine through a local tire dealer. He did have some trouble locating them (over two years ago), but they're available. FWIW, I went with Nokian Hakkapelitta 2 tires, size 185/65-15 and have been very happy with them. You could also go with size 175/70-15 for a little better bite through the deep stuff. > I have about 32k on the > original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer > driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. They really suck in the winter compared to real snows, even when they're new. I think you'll be very happy with the performance of your snow tires. |
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