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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / January 20072002 Elantra clutch replacement
Subject car is a 2002 Elantra, 2.0l, 5spd manual. ~70k Major complaint is severe clutch slippage. Tonight I helped the owner pull the transaxle out of the car. Unfortuantely I was unable to manuver the transaxle out of the car without first removing the pressure plate and clutch disc from the flywheel. I had to loosen the pressure plate bolts one at a time and that gave me just barely enough room to flip the transaxle over and get it out from under the car. Once we got it out and started inspecting it was obvious the pressure plate and flywheel are glazed. I think the pressure valve in the slave cylinder is to blame, when I drove this thing a few months ago it felt like I was riding the clutch for 1 -2 seconds between each shift. Anyway, Is there a trick to getting the transaxle back in without pulling the engine? I would much prefer to install the new clutch without the transaxle in there so I can tighten the bolts evenly, and then put the transaxle back in and bolt them up. Do I need to remove the engine mount from the passenger side and hoist the engine to get enough clearance? Anyone have any suggestions? Chris Not sure with this particular car, but with the old Excels I used to just remove the side motor mount and tilt the engine in such a manner that I could slide it on. Pat > Subject car is a 2002 Elantra, 2.0l, 5spd manual. ~70k > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Chris Remove the clutch release lever from the top of the transmission, flip it over, and install it upside down. Bolt the pressure plate and clutch onto the flywheel. Install the new throwout bearing onto the bearing forks and push onto the input shaft hub as far down as it will go. Flipping the lever over made this rotation of the release fork shaft possible. Then bolt the transmission up to the engine. Once you have the transmission bolted up, use the release fork lever to snap the throwout bearing onto the pressure plate. Then flip the lever back over and install properly. Sorry, Hal. I may not have understood your problem. If you haven't removed the subframe, the transmission won't come out. You'll need to remove the subframe. > Sorry, Hal. I may not have understood your problem. If you haven't > removed the subframe, the transmission won't come out. You'll need to > remove the subframe. Indeed, we found this out. We just dropped it down onto some jack stands and left the tie-rod ends installed. Dropping it down went okay, we had enough room to get the transaxle back into the wheel well and then we got the jack under it and the subframe and raised it into position. The car drives just great now. The only problem is that I screwed up indexing the position of the rack and the steering shaft when we put it back together(wheel is off center now by about 45 degrees). Is there a quick and dirty way of fixing this aside from pulling the steering wheel? Also...we took the 'pressure valve' out of the end of the slave cylinder. Talk about a MAJOR improvement..this thing has a -real- clutch now. I don't know why HMC found it to be a good idea to include that feature...it seems as though that valve scrubbed the life right out of the factory clutch as we had to do this job at only 70,000 miles. Do you pull this valve out when you do a clutch job? Oh..one last question. The clutch disc didn't look all that bad aside from being glazed...it wasn't down to the rivets yet but the flywheel and the cover were both obviously burned. I noticed that the clutch release arm has an "extension" on it that was hitting a boss on the transaxle case. I also noticed that with the new clutch components installed there is a sizeable gap there now between the arm and the case. Am I correct in assuming that as the friction disc wears down that gap will decrease? Chris > Also...we took the 'pressure valve' out of the end of the slave > cylinder. Talk about a MAJOR improvement..this thing has a -real- > clutch now. I don't know why HMC found it to be a good idea to include > that feature...it seems as though that valve scrubbed the life right > out of the factory clutch as we had to do this job at only 70,000 > miles. The speculation is that this dubious "feature" is designed to make is less likely that the clumsy-footed masses will stall the car by letting the clutch out too fast. Unfortunately, it creates increased clutch slippage which leads to increased wear. It also makes the clutch feel very inconsistent. Should the tiny orifice become blocked - or partially blocked - with debris, you have a real problem on your hands. It's a classic case of designing for the lowest common denominator, which is never a good idea. >> Also...we took the 'pressure valve' out of the end of the slave >> cylinder. Talk about a MAJOR improvement..this thing has a -real- [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > classic case of designing for the lowest common denominator, which is > never a good idea. Does the Sonata have this same "feature?" Maybe that is why my clutch feels so weird. That and the hypersensitive throttle make driving my car a lot more challenging than any other stick I've driven ... and I've driving many. I read a pretty dismal article about Hyundai today, I think in Business Week. It said that the new Sonata isn't selling well at all and that Hyundai is much less efficient at making cars than is Toyota and Honda taking something like 2/3 more hours of build time per car. And the Won exchange rate has hurt them also reducing the cost advantage compared to a Camry to less than $2000. The article speculates that this simply isn't enough of a differential to overcome Hyundai's past reputation. Matt >>> Also...we took the 'pressure valve' out of the end of the slave >>> cylinder. Talk about a MAJOR improvement..this thing has a -real- [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > car a lot more challenging than any other stick I've driven ... and I've > driving many. I don't know, but I'm sure you can find out by looking on Webtech. > I read a pretty dismal article about Hyundai today, I think in Business > Week. It said that the new Sonata isn't selling well at all and that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a Camry to less than $2000. The article speculates that this simply > isn't enough of a differential to overcome Hyundai's past reputation. I wouldn't worry about it. > Does the Sonata have this same "feature?" Maybe that is why my clutch > feels so weird. That and the hypersensitive throttle make driving my > car a lot more challenging than any other stick I've driven ... and I've > driving many. I'm not a hyundai expert, but the behavior I observed with the pressure valve in place is a delayed clutch engagement. The test I used to determine this car had the valve was to have a helper press the clutch to the floor and then release it instantly. If you see the clutch arm at the transaxle retract over the span of a second and a half or so you can assume you have the pressure valve. Removal on a 2002 elantra was relatively simple. We already had the transaxle out but you could do it with the transaxle in the car just as easily. Remove the bolts holding the slave cylinder to the transaxle case. Remove the banjo bolt from the end of the slave cylinder, and then turn the slave cylinder so that the pushrod is pointing up and press the release rod slightly. You should see a small metal 'clip' with a small hole in it and a small spring come out of the release cylinder. Re-install the banjo bolt, install the slave cylinder, and then bleed the clutch system and you're back where you started. I would imagine the sonata is probably the same basic procedure. As for how it works from the factory, the spring goes in first and the 'cup' goes in after that, and then the banjo bolt/hose assembly closes the end of the slave cylinder. When you press the clutch pedal the fluid moves the pressure valve off of its seat, allowing you to release the clutch as quickly as you can press the pedal to the floor. Going in the opposite direction, when you take your foot off the clutch pedal the tiny spring inside the slave cylinder forces the pressure valve up against the end of the banjo bolt, and the small hole in the valve acts as a flow restrictor, slowing the rate at which the brake fluid can get out of the slave cylinder. This causes the clutch to 'ride' a bit every time you shift. It's great if you replace clutches for a living, but for the vehicle owner I think this is a terrible 'feature'. Good luck with it. Chris "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message > I read a pretty dismal article about Hyundai today, I think in Business > Week. It said that the new Sonata isn't selling well at all and that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Camry to less than $2000. The article speculates that this simply isn't > enough of a differential to overcome Hyundai's past reputation. At first glance, it is a bit dismal, but I doubt Hyundai is going to let it continue that way. I'm sure they have all sorts of engineers working to get the build faster. There are enough automotive engineers around the world that have run across and solved that sort of problem. Hopefully, they will keep the quality up while finding methods to improve speed. Building a reputation takes a long time though. I've mentioned before, I laughed at the thought of buying a Hyundai just weeks before I bought mine. It took a trip to the showroom to convince me there was a lot of value and a seemingly high quality car. Now they just have to convince another 10 million more people to do the same and go to a showroom to see what you can get. Some Sonatas are in rental fleets, a good place to get some exposure. A couple of people from work had a rental and were impressed. It was their impression that got me to a showroom to look at one up close. Days later I was driving one. When I was in Las Vegas a few weeks ago, there were quite a few that looked like rentals. I saw more Sonatas in four days in LV than I do around home in months. > Sorry, Hal. I may not have understood your problem. If you haven't > removed the subframe, the transmission won't come out. You'll need to > remove the subframe. Indeed, we found this out. We just dropped it down onto some jack stands and left the tie-rod ends installed. Dropping it down went okay, we had enough room to get the transaxle back into the wheel well and then we got the jack under it and the subframe and raised it into position. The car drives just great now. The only problem is that I screwed up indexing the position of the rack and the steering shaft when we put it back together(wheel is off center now by about 45 degrees). Is there a quick and dirty way of fixing this aside from pulling the steering wheel? Also...we took the 'pressure valve' out of the end of the slave cylinder. Talk about a MAJOR improvement..this thing has a -real- clutch now. I don't know why HMC found it to be a good idea to include that feature...it seems as though that valve scrubbed the life right out of the factory clutch as we had to do this job at only 70,000 miles. Do you pull this valve out when you do a clutch job? Oh..one last question. The clutch disc didn't look all that bad aside from being glazed...it wasn't down to the rivets yet but the flywheel and the cover were both obviously burned. I noticed that the clutch release arm has an "extension" on it that was hitting a boss on the transaxle case. I also noticed that with the new clutch components installed there is a sizeable gap there now between the arm and the case. Am I correct in assuming that as the friction disc wears down that gap will decrease? Chris |
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