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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / September 2007need opinion of hyundaitech
no real problem. but wonder what you think about the 2007 & 2008 sonata V6. drive a camry and thinking about selling it and getting a 2007 or 2008 sonata V6. retired but work for hertz part time and of all the cars we have in the $20000.00 to $25000.00 price range the sonata V6 is the most fun to drive. handles great and lots and lots of power when you need it with pretty good gas mileage. just wondered if you think the sonata is on par with the camry and hold up in the long term. any real problems with the sonata or complaints from owners? my camry is a 2006 le 4cyl. great car but oh so boring. thanks DAVE The only significant issue I know of is the timing chain tensioners. And only the earliest production 2007s should have that issue. Revised tensioners were used after 8/4/06. As for overall longevity, I'm not convinced Hyundai is yet on par with the best of the manufacturers. And I don't have any significant recent experience with the newer Camrys to have a comparison point. Also be sure to test drive the car before you buy. Wheel/tire size will make a significant difference in ride and handling. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > The only significant issue I know of is the timing chain tensioners. > And only the earliest production 2007s should have that issue. > Revised tensioners were used after 8/4/06. How necessary is it for 2006 and early 2007 Sonata V6 cars to have the tensioner updated? Is Hyundai policy to replace the tensioner only if there is a clattering noise on startup? Or are all of them supposed to be replaced? (We have a fairly early 2006 Sonata V6. No bad noises on startup.) pdp11tech <pdp11@techie.com> scribbled: > How necessary is it for 2006 and early 2007 Sonata V6 cars to have the > tensioner updated? Is Hyundai policy to replace the tensioner only if > there is a clattering noise on startup? Or are all of them supposed to > be replaced? (We have a fairly early 2006 Sonata V6. No bad noises on > startup.) I would say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Mine had to be done, and IIRC, it involved about 12 hours labor. Hyundai's position is to replace the tensioners if one of them fails. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html Is that Hertz's used price? Used '06 Sonatas should be going for a LOT less than 20-25K. Maybe $14K. My brand new '06 was bit less than 20K. Since you work at Hertz, go ask your maintenance people what they think of the Sonata. And let us know what you find out. It would be very interesting to know what a rental company thinks of this car. > no real problem. but wonder what you think about the 2007 & 2008 sonata > V6. drive a camry and thinking about selling it and getting a 2007 or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > problems with the sonata or complaints from owners? my camry is a 2006 > le 4cyl. great car but oh so boring. thanks DAVE thanks hyundaitech. the 20k to 25 k is the sticker price i see on the new cars. we get a lot of check engine lights on some of the cars but don't think i have ever saw one come on on the sonata. love the standard trip computer that comes on the sonata. also like the standard 6 airbags on the 2008s and the standard stability control. seems like you get a lot of car for the money. also noticed standard satellite radio on the 2008s. in case anyone wants to know the fastest car hertz rents that we have a lot of is the infinity g35 , seems faster than the dodge charger with the hemmi v8.. 5.6 seconds 0 to 60 for the g35. 6.0 seconds 0 to 60 for the charger with the hemmi according to consumer reports. guess i am just an old man of 60 who still likes to put his foot in it from time to time. > thanks hyundaitech. the 20k to 25 k is the sticker price i see on the > new cars. we get a lot of check engine lights on some of the cars but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lot of car for the money. also noticed standard satellite radio on the > 2008s. Your reasoning is about the same as mine. I was looking at another Buick, but to get the stability control, I'd have to spends $35000 for the Lucerne and I did not want the Northstar V-8. At the same time I was looking a Buick, nothing much else was of serious interest except the Avalon Limited at about the same price. If you suggested buying Hyundai, their reputation from the late 1980's was still fresh in my mind and I'd have laughed at the idea, even though I'd not looked closely at one for many years. A couple of weeks later, talking to a couple of people that had them as rentals, they were impressed with the new Sonata. Long story short, I looked, I liked, I bought. The car has everything that I want at a price thousands less than the others. I'm not saying the quality of the leather is the same as the Lucerne, but it is damned close. I don't need the reclining rear seats that the Avalon Limited had. It does have every feature that is important to me. I figure I have at least a $5000 advantage, maybe more. The trip computer isn't (at the very least, wasn't) standard on all trim levels. Make a list of the features that are important to you and verify the car has all of them. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > GUEST wrote > no real problem. but wonder what you think about the 2007 2008 sonat > V6. drive a camry and thinking about selling it and getting a 200 o > 2008 sonata V6. retired but work for hertz part time and of all th car > we have in the $20000.00 to $25000.00 price range the sonata V6 i th > most fun to drive. handles great and lots and lots of power whe yo > need it with pretty good gas mileage. just wondered if you thin th > sonata is on par with the camry and hold up in the long term. an rea > problems with the sonata or complaints from owners? my camry is 200 > le 4cyl. great car but oh so boring. thanks DAV Don I recently rented an almost new Camry and thought it was not onl boring but dangerous. This 4 cylinder had a hard time getting goin if starting out on a small hill and the suspension is very soft an wavy. So I can understand why you are not happy with the Camry I have a 2002 Sonata V6 and it has been a pretty good car and I a hoping for 150K miles before the end. It now has 74,000 miles on it There is nothing major wrong with the car that I know of but littl things are starting to malfunction like the gas door doesn't ope when the switch is depressed One big issue: the brake rotors keep warping and Hyundai refuses t fix them under warranty even though it was still covered under th bumper-to-bumper. That was a bad decision by Hyundai America. have now replaced the rotors and pads with high performance model and hope that solves the problem Next time I will buy a Honda which has yielded better performance an reliability for me in the past. Good luck > > GUEST wrote: > > no real problem. but wonder what you think about the 2007 & [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Next time I will buy a Honda which has yielded better performance and > reliability for me in the past. Good luck. You may also want to check your driving habits and pad break-in procedure as rotors rarely actually warp. The pulsing is often a result of uneven deposition of brake pad material onto the rotor. This can often be corrected with a few 5-10 really hard stops to heat up the rotor and redistribute the material. Also, try not to stop hard and then hold the brakes for any period of time as that will cause pad imprinting. Try to let the car roll slowly ahead after a hard stop rather than standing on the brakes afterward. Matt > You may also want to check your driving habits and pad break-in procedure > as rotors rarely actually warp. The pulsing is often a result of uneven [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > let the car roll slowly ahead after a hard stop rather than standing on > the brakes afterward. Actually, a lot of aftermarket, and even some OEM rotors will warp from the heat from semi-metallic pads. The break-in stuff is more hyperbole than reality, as is the theory of hard braking. What really addresses this problem best is a quality set of rotors and ceramic pads.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> You may also want to check your driving habits and pad break-in procedure >> as rotors rarely actually warp. The pulsing is often a result of uneven [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > reality, as is the theory of hard braking. What really addresses this > problem best is a quality set of rotors and ceramic pads. If you have some data, I'm all ears. However, until then, I believe this gentleman... http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml It also matches my experience. Matt >>> You may also want to check your driving habits and pad break-in >>> procedure as rotors rarely actually warp. The pulsing is often a result [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > It also matches my experience. I read that as well Matt. Completely contradicts my experience. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>>> You may also want to check your driving habits and pad break-in >>>> procedure as rotors rarely actually warp. The pulsing is often a result [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I read that as well Matt. Completely contradicts my experience. I haven't measured many with a dial indicator, but I've never yet found one warped significantly. And I've had a couple of "warped" rotors that were "fixed" with 5-10 hard stops to redistribute the pad material. A mechanically warped disk would not get better with additional heating cycles. We'll have to agree to disagree. However, I suggest that anyone who thinks their disks are warped should take the time to check them with a dial indicator. I'll bet most times they will find no warpage. Matt >>>>> You may also want to check your driving habits and pad break-in >>>>> procedure as rotors rarely actually warp. The pulsing is often a [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Matt I'll add that they should also try 5-10 hard stops in quick succession with no cooling between stops. If you are going to replace the rotors and pads anyway, you have nothing to lose, but don't be surprised if your "warped" rotors get a lot better all of the sudden. They will unlikely get completely smooth for the reasons mentioned in the article above, but I've tried this twice now and it made a huge improvement. Matt > I haven't measured many with a dial indicator, but I've never yet found > one warped significantly. And I've had a couple of "warped" rotors that > were "fixed" with 5-10 hard stops to redistribute the pad material. A > mechanically warped disk would not get better with additional heating > cycles. I too have "fixed" an occassional pulsing pedal this way, but it's the exception. That's not fixing a warped rotor which has many more times proven the case for me. Whether I tested them with a dial caliper or put them on a lathe, they were verifiably warped. It's very common with a lot of the cheap aftermarket rotors out there. Trying to make these rotors better with brake cycles won't work. > We'll have to agree to disagree. However, I suggest that anyone who > thinks their disks are warped should take the time to check them with a > dial indicator. I'll bet most times they will find no warpage. It's ok to disagree - you know I'm fine with that. I would only tweak your closing comment by suggesting what I do - when faced with pulsing, first try to clear the problem with braking techniques as you referenced. When that does not fix the problem, simple be aware that rotors do warp, and when buying new don't go cheap. Going better does not cost that much more but works much better. Good quality rotors and ceramic pads. And don't be alarmed by warped rotors - it's more and more common as manufacturers cheapen up the rotors they build with. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> I haven't measured many with a dial indicator, but I've never yet found >> one warped significantly. And I've had a couple of "warped" rotors that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of the cheap aftermarket rotors out there. Trying to make these rotors > better with brake cycles won't work. No, they were not "verifiably" warped if you didn't measure them. >> We'll have to agree to disagree. However, I suggest that anyone who >> thinks their disks are warped should take the time to check them with a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > alarmed by warped rotors - it's more and more common as manufacturers > cheapen up the rotors they build with. Except that rotors don't warp in general. :-) Matt >>> I haven't measured many with a dial indicator, but I've never yet found >>> one warped significantly. And I've had a couple of "warped" rotors that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No, they were not "verifiably" warped if you didn't measure them. Did you not read what I wrote? >>> We'll have to agree to disagree. However, I suggest that anyone who >>> thinks their disks are warped should take the time to check them with a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Except that rotors don't warp in general. :-) Whatever you say. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >>>> I haven't measured many with a dial indicator, but I've never yet found >>>> one warped significantly. And I've had a couple of "warped" rotors that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Did you not read what I wrote? A dial caliper can't easily measure run-out and a lathe doesn't measure anything, so I basically don't believe you have ever checked a brake rotor. A caliper could measure thickness variation, but not warpage. A dial indicator in conjunction with a lathe could measure warpage, but only if the rotor was installed true in the lathe and that wouldn't be easy. The least little off-axis mounting would look like warpage when the lathe was spun. Easiest is to just spin the rotor on the car with a magnetic mount dial indicator. Matt > A dial caliper can't easily measure run-out and a lathe doesn't measure > anything, so I basically don't believe you have ever checked a brake [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The least little off-axis mounting would look like warpage when the lathe > was spun. Matt - you get too hung up on little things and overlook the obvious. Claim what you will, but if you've never mounted and turned a rotor I'm not going to spend any time arguing about what "could" be happening. I'm happy to let you believe what you read on a web site as the hidden answer to rotor problems, and I'll simply bumble along fixing cars in my ignorance. I'm really not going to spend a lot of time trying to satisfy your needs for empiracle evidence to refute something you read. > Easiest is to just spin the rotor on the car with a magnetic mount dial > indicator. And I do stand corrected on this point, in that I should have said dial indicator. Don't know how the word caliper slipped in there unless it was in the front of my mind - this being a brake discussion. Regardless, if you'd have worked on pulsing pedal problems you'd certainly have verified warped rotors with an indicator. Let me challenge that article this way Matt - how much depositing and imprinting is necessary to cause a noticeable pulse in the pedal? How much to create wild pulsing at highway speed? How does this buildup occur in such varying depths around a 10" disk that is turning at highway speeds with (near) constant brake pressure, while 5 hard stops is all it takes to clean it up? Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message > Let me challenge that article this way Matt - how much depositing and > imprinting is necessary to cause a noticeable pulse in the pedal? How > much to create wild pulsing at highway speed? How does this buildup > occur in such varying depths around a 10" disk that is turning at highway > speeds with (near) constant brake pressure, while 5 hard stops is all it > takes to clean it up? The buildup thing kind of puzzled me also. I'd think that if there was buildup turning the rotors would remove it and leave the rotor in spec. Certainly some shop would have noticed they are cutting brake lining, not metal. Do you think it is possible to generate enough heat and the spinning would actually unwarp the rotors? Since repeated stops are necessary, that is the only possibility I can think of. > "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote in message >> Let me challenge that article this way Matt - how much depositing and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > actually unwarp the rotors? Since repeated stops are necessary, that is the > only possibility I can think of. I don't think the issue is build up in the sense of changing the thickness measurably. I think it is more an issue of changing the coefficient of friction in a nonuniform way around the circumference. That only takes a layer a few atoms or molecules thick... I'd have to read the article again as I don't remember all of the details, but I think they also talk about other phenomenon occurring as well. I think the odds of changing a mechanically warped rotor back to a true one are simply astronomical. That is the reason that I started to believe this article had merit. That and measuring a handful of rotors that pulsed severely and finding that they were true well within the manufacturers specs. After "fixing" a few "warped" rotors with very hard stops, I knew that I wasn't "unwarping" the rotor and something else had to be going on here. I also break in new pads per the article and I now almost never have a problem with pulsing brakes. However, I'm not saying you should believe me or even the article. Try it yourself. Next time your brakes pulse, put a dial indicator on them and see if they are really warped (moving side to side as they spin). I'll bet the odds are very high that you have nothing outside of the manufacturer's specs. Then go out and make several very hard stops per the article and see if the pulsing changes. Then measure axial run-out of the rotors again and see if anything has changed. I'm betting nothing has changed, but I'll also bet that your brakes pulse less. It will never go completely away as you can't undo completely the damage caused by improper brake-in or other use such as making a hard stop and then holding the brakes on at a light or such and severely imprinting the brakes. Only shaving metal off the rotors or replacing them will restore you completely to normal. However, as I said earlier, if you are at the point of replacement anywhere, what have you got to lose by trying the hard stop treatment? Matt >> A dial caliper can't easily measure run-out and a lathe doesn't measure >> anything, so I basically don't believe you have ever checked a brake [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > really not going to spend a lot of time trying to satisfy your needs for > empiracle evidence to refute something you read. I've never mounted a rotor on a lathe as I never had a lathe. I've always used a dial indicator with the rotor on the car as that is THE most accurate way to check for warp. And thickness variation is checked just as easily on a car as well. And thickness variation would cause much more severe pulsing anyway. Warp just moves the calipers side to side in their mount. Since they are designed to move this way anyway, this doesn't cause much problem. The severe pulsing is caused from variations in friction as the rotor turns and this is either from variations in coefficient of friction around the circumference of the rotor or from variations in clamping force around the circumference. The former is caused by uneven pad material deposition or nonuniform changes in the metal properties as described in the article. The latter is caused by uneven thickness of the rotor (also extremely rare). Warp just about never happens and even if it did, it would cause very slight vibration and would NOT cause the car to shudder as will the other two problems. > And I do stand corrected on this point, in that I should have said dial > indicator. Don't know how the word caliper slipped in there unless it was > in the front of my mind - this being a brake discussion. Regardless, if > you'd have worked on pulsing pedal problems you'd certainly have verified > warped rotors with an indicator. No problem, brain farts happen. However, I have to admit when I hear someone use the incorrect nomenclature it causes me to question the veracity of their message. > Let me challenge that article this way Matt - how much depositing and > imprinting is necessary to cause a noticeable pulse in the pedal? How much > to create wild pulsing at highway speed? How does this buildup occur in > such varying depths around a 10" disk that is turning at highway speeds with > (near) constant brake pressure, while 5 hard stops is all it takes to clean > it up? Very little is required. All it takes is enough to change the coefficient of friction from one circumferential location to another. One pad imprint can do it. It is a little bit like oil. It takes a very thin film to radically change the coefficient of friction of a surface. Matt > Very little is required. All it takes is enough to change the coefficient > of friction from one circumferential location to another. One pad imprint > can do it. It is a little bit like oil. It takes a very thin film to > radically change the coefficient of friction of a surface. That's the part I don't buy Matt. How fast are those rotors turning at highway speed? How does this deposit occur from one circumfrential location to another? If imprinting was as real a factor as this guy suggests, every single car that has ever put a mile on a road would have suffered this after the first stop at the end of a highway exit ramp. It's a great sounding theory for a guy's web site, but it's bull - at least as he presents it. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> Very little is required. All it takes is enough to change the coefficient >> of friction from one circumferential location to another. One pad imprint [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the first stop at the end of a highway exit ramp. It's a great sounding > theory for a guy's web site, but it's bull - at least as he presents it. Well, for a 30" diameter tire, the RPM at 60 MPH is 672. Alternatively, this is 11 revolutions per second. I don't follow your point though about the RPM. Can you elaborate? Most cars I've ridden in have suffered from this. I travel on business fairly often and rent a lot of cars and almost every rental I drive has pulsing brakes. Some fairly minor and some downright obnoxious. Matt >> That's the part I don't buy Matt. How fast are those rotors turning at >> highway speed? How does this deposit occur from one circumfrential [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > this is 11 revolutions per second. I don't follow your point though about > the RPM. Can you elaborate? What I meant is that the rotor is tuning fast eniugh that if layering were truly the culprit, it would be a much more consistent thing given the rotational speed of the wheel. It would be difficult at best to create layering of variable density. > Most cars I've ridden in have suffered from this. I travel on business > fairly often and rent a lot of cars and almost every rental I drive has > pulsing brakes. Some fairly minor and some downright obnoxious. Well, I don't drive rental cars anymore, like I used to. I've been more local for the past two years (almost). I have not found brake pulsing to be common in any rentals I ever did drive - and I used to be in 2-3 different rental cars every week. I know that none of our cars display it unless things are wearing out. Let's go back for a sanity check though... We *are* talking about a wobble and not a very faint low level pulse - right? Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net |
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