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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / October 2007$10,000 Engine?
OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. My firend has a 2004 Santa Fe GLS with the 3.5L and 4WD. The other day here engine "blew up". since she hadn't had the coolant changed acording to schedule the dealership is trying to nail her for not following the maintenance schedule and are telling her it will cost $10,000 to replace the engine (presummably with a new engine, not rebuilt). She'd just had the car at the dealership for service about a month ago. Question 1: $10,000 for the engine? Does that sound . . . um, steep? Question 2: Any advice/other people's experience that can help her to get out of this situation in the best way to get the dealership to foot the bill? Thanks in advance for any help, -- SUB -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html >OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -- SUB Unless the entire coolant reservoir and ALL the coolant fluid was completely gone, there's no WAY it should have blown up because of overheating. The driver should have gotten dash lights indicating overheating or check engine at the very least. If the driver was ignoring check engine and it blew up because of negligence, it's possible the mechanic could pull codes or logs from the OBD and prove it was caused by negligence. I'd say get a readout from the OBD and see if there's any logs that could indicate when the problem happened. - Thee Chicago Wolf "Thee Chicago Wolf" <.@.> wrote in message > Unless the entire coolant reservoir and ALL the coolant fluid was > completely gone, there's no WAY it should have blown up because of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Thee Chicago Wolf All of that does not matter. The service manual states that coolant should be changed at 60,000 miles. If it is full and in perfect condition but not changed, they can deny coverage if the engine blows for any reason at 60,001 miles. From the Hyundai web site COOLANT: FOR THE FIRST TIME, REPLACE THE COOLANT AT 60,000 MILES (96,000 KM) OR 60 MONTHS, AFTER THAT, REPLACE IT EVEY 30,000 MILES (48,000) OR 24 MONTHS. > "Thee Chicago Wolf" <.@.> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > KM) OR 60 MONTHS, AFTER THAT, REPLACE IT EVEY 30,000 MILES (48,000) OR 24 > MONTHS. Certainly they can.... but if they play games on technicalities, they can kiss their hard-won customer base good bye in a heart beat. I say that as a first time Hyundai buyer (2007 Sonata). In my mind, I'll judge Hyundai based on my first time experience. Buick lost my loyalty after my second Park Avenue turned out to be an underwelming experience. I switched to Cadillac in 2002 as a result. >All of that does not matter. The service manual states that coolant should >be changed at 60,000 miles. If it is full and in perfect condition but not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >From the Hyundai web site >COOLANT: FOR THE FIRST TIME, REPLACE THE COOLANT AT 60,000 MILES (96,000 KM) OR 60 MONTHS, AFTER THAT, REPLACE IT EVEY 30,000 MILES (48,000) OR 24 >MONTHS. I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but over the 5 year warranty clause, by about two weeks. The dealer refused the free service. Next car will be another make from another dealer. BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the same dealer on time. "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message > I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door > locks were (still are) acting up, still under the 50K mileage, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > BTW I had all the specified services, all changes etc., done by the > same dealer on time. Now that would piss me off. Wear items are mileage related but things like door locks (in my case a heated seat in a GM car) are a different category. Two week over for a dealer serviced car usually falls into the gray area and a good dealer will try to help. Evidently yours does not want repeat business. > "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > a good dealer will try to help. Evidently yours does not want repeat > business. Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If 6 months, how about 1 year? Matt >> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Matt Matt, You make many valid legal points. However we vote with our pocket books. If the manufacturer appears to the average consumer to be unreasonable, the manufacturer will undoubtedly lose at the next election. To paraphrase what I said before: Hyundai may well be legally right -- but dead right the next time around. >>> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I said before: Hyundai may well be legally right -- but dead right the next > time around. I'm not talking about legality. I'm talking about practicality. Where does the dealer draw the line? If he repairs your car for free when it is two weeks out of warranty, how does he turn me down when I'm 1 month out? After all, I'm only two weeks later than you who was only two weeks later than the warranty expiration. Matt >> Matt, >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Matt Yup, he's got a tough decision to make and I'm not going to say where he should draw the line. He'll have to decide how badly he wants to retain customers. But it's clear to me what side of the line 2 weeks falls. This all brings to mind a maybe unrelated incident I experienced maybe 20 years ago. The dealer was Story Oldsmobile in Lansing, Michigan. At the time they were the largest Oldsmobile dealer in the world -- bar none. Well, I took my Olds in for some maintenance and tried to set up an appointment. Oop, forgot to say their arrogance was also the biggest in the world : ) I was told they did maintenance on a first-come-first-served basis. Okay with me. But you had to leave your car there and they couldn't tell you an approximate performance time. It could have set in their lot for a few hours or several days. Told them that was a stupid way to handle maintenance and customer service. They could have cared less. Their business plummeted long before Oldsmobile went out of business. Actually, Olds changed the way they handled employee vehicle purchases which killed their golden goose. I saw an ad recently which said "Customer Service is not just a department name at ..." (don't recall the company name) Lot of truth in that statement. >>>> "irwell" <hook@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>>> I got caught with that time business on my 2001 Elantra, the door [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Matt The way I understand it is that dealers who might have difficulty substantiating a warranty claim to corporate are reluctant to approve a repair. If the claim is clear cut, they are more then happy to approve the repair as they are paid full rate by the mfgr. Repair and service work, in and out of warranty, generates far more profit for a dealer then does car sales. Each dealership will play the percentages in its own way when it comes down to customer service verses maintaining a relationship with corporate. For me, who I buy from is a more important consideration the bottom line price. I may be wrong, but if you are not required to have warranty work done at the place of purchase, why not try some other dealers? Maybe one will opt for your side of the fine line. L. "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message > Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks > over is OK, how about 1 month? If 1 month is OK, how about 6 months? If 6 > months, how about 1 year? > > Matt Dealers do it often. I've had a few little things done at NC by the dealer that were just over the line. So do the manufacturers make allowances if contacted. In a cases like the doorlocks, the dealer should have at least made an effort to keep a long time customer that has all his service done there. Legally, they were 100% correct to deny free service. Businesswise, it was a dumb move. Giving the customer 30 minutes of time by a tech can make the difference between a sale and no sale. As for the new engine, that line is much harder than a door lock line. Personal experience. I had some service done on my AC after the normal period. I bought two more cars from him. Bought another car and had a time/mileage incident and the dealer was no help. I bought the next car elsewhere. . > "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > made an effort to keep a long time customer that has all his service done > there. What constitutes "just over the line?" Matt >> "Matt Whiting" <whiting@epix.net> wrote in message >>> Where do you draw the line if not at the time specified? If two weeks [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Matt In this case with the AC, an entire winter. The one year expired in October but they fixed it in the following spring. It was strictly the dealer's discretion to keep a customer happy and it paid off in selling more cars. >Question 1: $10,000 for the engine? Does that sound . . . um, steep? For $10,000 you could buy a small new car or a decent downpayment on an '08 Santa Fe. Using hyundaiparts.net parts search, the engine should cost 5270.70 plus $527 shipping. Have a look yourself. http://www.hyundaiparts.net/partscat.html It's at least couple days worth of labor but $10,000 is WAY high. Your friend could always find out if it's covered under insurance and file a claim. The deductible might be cheaper than replacement cost. - Thee Chicago Wolf Keep in mind that's $1500 below MSRP. Furthermore, if you're in certain geographic areas, dealers will charge significantly more than MSRP to cover their own costs of doing business in that location. Also, you'll need to add the labor for replacing the engine. I can testify that this is *not* a fun job. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html >Keep in mind that's $1500 below MSRP. Furthermore, if you're in certain >geographic areas, dealers will charge significantly more than MSRP to >cover their own costs of doing business in that location. > >Also, you'll need to add the labor for replacing the engine. I can >testify that this is *not* a fun job. Local taxes and MSRP go hand in hand. I live on the border of two counties. I go into one and it's at 9% sales tax. I go into the other, 7.5. I bought my 02 Sonata in the 7.5% county but I lived in the 9% so I got a lovely letter saying I had to pay the difference. Nice eh? On a good day with all planets in alignment, how long does it take to replace an engine in man-hours? - Thee Chicago Wolf This particular engine, I'd count on 1.5 to 2 days. Lots of hard-to-get-to stuff to take off prior to dropping engine/trans. And lots of stuff to take off even after dropped. I did one once, and it definitely was not fun. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > out of this situation in the best way to get the dealership to foot the > bill? How many miles on the vehicle? It's not possible to offer any realistic advice without understanding a lot more about the situation. As for the cost of that engine job - that seems wayyyy high to me. But then, exactly what did the quote say?  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Thats waaayyyyyy too high , believe it or not check Ebaymoters , I found a new crate motor for my 01 Elantra for .....$895! Also do a google search for 'crate motors' Those tend to only run about $2k from engine rebuilder company , they usually come with full comprehensive warranties .Often they buy up the production overrun motors for resale . Honestly, this is a situation where HyundaiTech is at his best. Oh where, oh where, has Mr. HyundaiTech gone? > OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ > More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the engine (presummably with a new engine, not rebuilt). She'd just had > the car at the dealership for service about a month ago. <snip> If the car was serviced in the dealership, they should take care about coolant change, as well as other maintenance. Only if customer insist not to follow scheduled maintenance, then he or she will take responsibility. Hopefully it is not the case here... As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. > > OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > not to follow scheduled maintenance, then he or she will take > responsibility. Hopefully it is not the case here... > As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown > because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. Guys, read the fine print. This has nothing to do with the coolant level. It has everything to do with adhering to the terms of the warranty. The factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles. No change, warranty void. Simple legal terms. Razz, I'll give you $10,000. All you have to do is pick it up in person here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal? Same with the warranty. Do what they require or it is void. >> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > here in northeast CT by 7:15. At 7:16 you are too late. Deal? Same with > the warranty. Do what they require or it is void. And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or Accord --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT. > >> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown > >> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or cord --- > anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family to NOT BUY a > Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their warranty. You're > right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT. Also, when my warranty ran out on the paint, ( there again bullshit advertising, 5 year bumper to bumper warranty........ya right, doesn't cover the paint which only has a three year warranty, so why advertise a bullshit 5 year bumper to bumper warranty ( which to me means everything included for five years ). Anyways, two months after my paint warranty ran out, all the door handle paint started to peel off. Hyundai would not cover it, to bad off warranty was the reply. Really f.cking pissed me off, since there was no primer applied under the paint, which is in my opinion is poor workmanship and quality. Had this verified by the body shop where I was working at the time, and also two other verifications by other body shops. No primer applied to door handles. Went all the way to Hyundai Canada on this one, and then to Korea's corporate head quarters, got the same reply by each to bad off warranty, which the car was just over three years old, no five year bumper to bumper on this one. So in a nutshell Hyundai will not honor their warranty when it suits them. People often ask how there vehicles are, and I will tell them what to expect, no customer service. I've been questioned by Hyundai, ( remember the car is six years old now ), if I will be trading in my Hyundai for a new one, and I tell them yes I will be very soon, but not on a Hyundai ever again. "DonC" <coondwc@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message > And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or > cord --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family > to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their > warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT. And there are stories of how good and how bad Toyota and Honda are also. One thing that lead me to buy a Hyundai was a bad experience with warranty on my Buick. Your money, your choice. >>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their warranty. You're > right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT. What is the spirit of their warranty? Matt >>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >What is the spirit of their warranty? **In this case, it's the spirit of Warranty Past. :) kaboomie >>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Matt Pretty simple. "We've got the best warranty in the business!" And a "no worry" assumption. Isn't that how their ads come across to you? >>>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >>>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Pretty simple. "We've got the best warranty in the business!" And a "no > worry" assumption. Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s recommendation if I wish to maintain warranty coverage. That is true for every manufacturer I know of. Some will do "good will" repairs outside the warranty period for known problems, but even this typically requires that the car have been properly maintained. A warranty is a contract and most contracts place responsibilities on at least two parties. If either party doesn't fulfill their responsibility,then the contract is void. We can argue whether or not the failure to change the coolant was a factor in this case, and I can't see how that alone could have been a factor, however, that is largely irrelevant to the fact that the warranty requirements were not met. If one part of the maintenance wasn't performed, what else wasn't done? I suspect that we aren't hearing the full story here... Matt > Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I > also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Matt So you are saying that if my Santa Fe transmission fails at 65000 miles and I cannot prove I had the fluid checked at 25,000 miles but did have it checked at 35,000 miles and it was OK, then the warranty is void??? I don't think any court in the land was stand behind that decision. Jim >> Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I >> also assume that I need to maintain the car per the manufacturer;s [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > checked at 35,000 miles and it was OK, then the warranty is void??? I > don't think any court in the land was stand behind that decision. I don't have a Santa Fe and I don't know what the maintenance requirements are for one so I can't comment on the above scenario. Matt > >> Yes, on the best warranty part, but, no, on the no worry assumption. I [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Jim > Afraid that any court will stand behind. First, the manual state that it must be CHANGED at 30K, not just cheked, then again CHANGED it at 60K, 90K you miss any, you are out of luck, period, that's the law, and yes, it's fair, you do your part, they do their part. Afraid that any court will stand behind. First, the manual state that it must be CHANGED at 30K, not just cheked, then again CHANGED it at 60K, 90K you miss any, you are out of luck, period, that's the law, and yes, it's fair, you do your part, they do their part. Let me change the example! I have my transmission fluid changed at 25,000 miles instead of 30,000 and it goes out at 58,000. Since I didn't have it changed at 30,000, is the warranty voided? Or is it voided because 33,000 miles were traveled without changing it? What if I had it changed at 30,100 miles, would that void it? 29,900? What if the first 3,500 miles following an oil change is all highway mileage and then the next 3,500 are city driving and I change the oil at 7001. Does that void the warranty? Get real!!!! Jim "jim" <jwhite18817@peoplepc.com> wrote in message Let me change the example! I have my transmission fluid changed at 25,000 miles instead of 30,000 and it goes out at 58,000. Since I didn't have it changed at 30,000, is the warranty voided? Or is it voided because 33,000 miles were traveled without changing it? What if I had it changed at 30,100 miles, would that void it? 29,900? What if the first 3,500 miles following an oil change is all highway mileage and then the next 3,500 are city driving and I change the oil at 7001. Does that void the warranty? Get real!!!! Jim You can make up all the potencial scenarios you want, but there is a responsibiity of the owner. If you choose not to accept it, be prepared to have it used against you. There are many other subtle factors that can change things, such as a sympethetic dealer that want to work with you and help you, or being an a.shole and demanding something of the service manager he normally cannot do and pissing him off.. > You can make up all the potencial scenarios you want, but there is a > responsibiity of the owner. If you choose not to accept it, be prepared to > have it used against you. There are many other subtle factors that can > change things, such as a sympethetic dealer that want to work with you and > help you, or being an a.shole and demanding something of the service manager > he normally cannot do and pissing him off.. Well I do drive more than 50 percent of my miles at highway speeds. Probably 70 percent. Should I service it under the "hard wear and tear" or what ever they call it or the other category? With the definitions provided in the manual I'm not sure. Talking about highway speeds, Has anyone ever checked their odometer against the highway mileage markers. Not just for a mile but many miles. All of my last 4 vehicles, Hyundai, Chrysler, Honda and Nissan registered OVER the mile. In other words, an actual mile would register over a mile, ranging from .05 to .10 miles. Now over a 20000 mile space that adds up. Think I could get credit for those unused miles if I need warranty work let's say 200 miles past the warranty end? Dealer won't even look at the problem when I tell him of the misreading. You'd be surprised what courts would say about these cases, if they would go to court. Jim >>>>>> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >>>>>> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Matt If what we hear is 100% true, then Hyundai is not a "good will" manufacturer and I want to deal with the "some" that are. The 200 miles is well within "good will" range, IMHO. But I can't disagree with your last sentence : ) > And when I get ready to replace my Sonata, I'll buy a Camry, or > cord --- anything but a Hyundai. And I'll advice my friends and family > to NOT BUY a Hyundai because they don't live up to the spirit of their > warranty. You're right: They're RIGHT -- DEAD RIGHT. And you expect any other warranty to be different? Hold fast though - this story is far from over, If the OP ever re-posts here, it will be interesting to hear what Hyundai's official position on this is - not some dealership's opinion. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> As a mechanic for many years, I have never, EVER seen an engine blown >> because the coolant wasn't changed, especially on a 3 year old vehicle. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >factory says you must change the coolant at 60,000 miles. No change, >warranty void. Simple legal terms. Or, as you pointed out in your first post, 60 months-this is an important clause, as many people have cars that are over 60 months old, but still under 50K mileage. My 2001 Elantra is just coming up to 50,000 miles, but has not had the coolant changed. >OK, here's the CLiff's notes version. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Thanks in advance for any help, **Just to reiterate other member's posts, what's the mileage on the Santa Fe and has she had all of the proper maintenance done? Did she have the maintenance done at the dealership (they'll have a record of it)? Did she tell them to not do the coolant change? My dad (old coot that can fix everything *and* works at a Hyundai dealership) said that they wouldn't replace the engine with a new one. They'll take out the blown engine, take it apart, keep what's good and replace what's broken. He said that he can't recall them ever using a complete new or refurbished engine replacement. (I don't know if this varies by dealer). When I explained that the dealership was blaming it on coolant, he said: Anti-freeze? They're trying to blame it on anti-freeze? And they checked it a month before? They're full of sh.t! Tell her to get a new dealership! So I replied that she probably had a properly-filled reservoir but didn't have the coolant change done before 60K. He said: They're still full of sh.t!! :) If that engine was just checked a month earlier and there's coolant in it, the engine is not going to blow due to not having your coolant changed. He also said it just sounded like a bullshit excuse. Of course and most importantly, this is all predicated on the fact her engine blew suddenly and that she did not ignore warnings that her car was giving her and drive it into the ground (as Thee Chicago Wolf explained). Dad said that she should call corporate or demand the number for that region's Hyundai rep and the Hyundai dealership must give it to her. kaboomie Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at everything yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about 40,000 miles on it (less than 45,000). I'm not sure if she declined a coolant change at the dealership. I do know that she did get some service work done at a small shop that she used for some bodywork she had done so not all service was through the dealership. To the point many people are making about the customer-relations effects this could have; I drive a Subaru that I'm extremely happy with. With all the good press about improvements in Hyundai's initial quality, Hyundai's great design plus the owner experiences of some other friends I've been considering a Santa Fe for my next car. I can say that how they deal with this issue will definitely weigh heavily in giving the Santa Fe (really Hyundai) a try. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at everything > yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > this issue will definitely weigh heavily in giving the Santa Fe (really > Hyundai) a try. Well, that's certainly every buyer's privilege, but before I made any final decisions, I'd make sure I understood the specifics about this deal. At this point you really don't know enough about the situation to answer any of the questions that have been asked here, so that leaves you ill-equipped to make a decision about Hyundai customer service. There are lots of reasons why engines fail. Some of them are the responsibility of the owner and some are not. Impossible for anyone to cast a reflection on Hyundai at this point, whether that be favorable or unfavorable. Keep the group posted on things you discover. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at everything >> yet but answers to at least one question is that the engine had about [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Keep the group posted on things you discover. Yes, modern engines seldom fail without some cause. Sure, manufacturing and design defects do occur (sludge in Toyota engines for example), but they are quite rate today. Most engine failures I see, and I see very few, are due to abuse by the owner. It would be good to know the entire story here. I'd love to hear the dealer's point of view. Matt >>> Wow, that's a lot of discussion. I haven't had time to look at >>> everything [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > they are quite rate today. Most engine failures I see, and I see very > few, are due to abuse by the owner. In-laws 2002(3) Lincoln Town Car. Threw a rod through the bottom of the engine. Car has 56,000 on it. Ford said it was out of warranty. After lots of wailing and crying they agreed to pay for 1/2 the cost of an engine from the junk yard. The labor and other half my father-in-law paid. I'm assuming that is Lincolns call, not Ford's. It would be good to know the entire > story here. I'd love to hear the dealer's point of view. > > Matt First, there's a little misinformation in the posts above. For 2004 models, the required maintenance interval for the coolant was 2 years/30,000 miles. But that's not even necessarily important here. What is important is the reason why the engine failed, and whose responsibility that problem is. Did it overheat? Throw a rod? All this is important in determining the potential causes of failure. For Hyundai to deny warranty coverage due to lack of maintenance, Hyundai must be able to show within reason that the failure to perform the specified maintenance actually caused the failure. In this case, how did the engine fail? If it's coolant related, did the dealer take a coolant sample and test the coolant? Coolant test strips which test for both pH and temperature protection are very common. If Hyundai has no evidence that there was a problem with the coolant, then there is no basis upon which to deny coverage on that point. There's significant information missing here, including the number of miles on the engine and some other things. Bottom line, if the OP feels the dealer isn't giving a fair shake, there should be immediate contact with Hyundai customer assistance (800-633-5151). -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html Welcome back. > First, there's a little misinformation in the posts above. For 2004 > models, the required maintenance interval for the coolant was 2 [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ > More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html Dude - there was a lot of speculation that you left and went to work for the GM camp... Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Done it before. Would consider it again (or just about any other car line) for the right money. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html In my own personal dealings with Hyundai, the customer service at corporate level is 1000% better than the local dealer. Particularly at Reliable Imports in Springfield Mo. In a list of suggested 30,000 mile service on a 2002 XG350 the maintainance suggested totaled over 1,000 dollars. After talking to the shop manager at this same dealer, the necessities, (doing my own work of course) were less that $125.00 and that was buying their coolant, oil filter, transmission fluid, and air filter. They had some of the most ridiculous labor charges I'd ever seen for guys that probably didn't make over $20.00 an hour with no benefits. Just rotating and balancing tires was over 100 dollars when Sams club will do it for 25% of that or less .Also they said the transmission fluid had to be flushed and filled when all that was required was drained and filled as was the engine coolant. Funny part was the parts counter prices on anything they peddle is 25% higher if quoted on shop use prices than it is customer (DIY) prices. One example of this is an engine air filter for 24.65 at the counter and a quote of 36.50 in the shop estimate.( No, labor was separate). I don't know how they justify that. I guess because they are the only game in town. That service manager is no longer with them and I'll just bet it was because of his honest dealings with customers. The young kid that gave the the ridiculously high estimates of repairs for warranty service is now shop manager. Wonder why? In a capitalistic society, you can't warranty a vehicle forever but some leeway should be given. Like many of the commenters have said, they shot themselves in the head when it came to repeat business. That customer will surely remember his/her treatment at that dealer when purchasing their next vehicle. We have a "lemon law" in the state of Mo. and it has protected some folks from dealers like this one you speak of if the car has a more than frequent breakdown rate. In the case of the doorlock failures, it would be hard to convince a small claims court here that by not draining the transmission fluid a month late caused the doorlock to shoot craps. |
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