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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / December 2007Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice. In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to know if this was my engine." Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't cracked. It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone can see. I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it quits leaking. I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can picture how their customer service would react - denial. > Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an > oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, > hoping that it wasn't cracked. That sucks. > I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few > days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can > picture how their customer service would react - denial. Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net I second Mike's motion. You should contact Fram and DOCUMENT the filter gasket's failure in case you have engine problems. A follow up with a registered letter would be my second step. Fram is a very reputable company, despite how they get slammed on this forum, and should welcome the information about the gasket material. It sounds as if they may have changed gasket material. Probably, as is so frequent today, they outsourced the gaskets (maybe the entire filter) to China and got what they paid for-junk. It happened to me at my work when our closure supplier changed their gasket source to China and, without their knowledge, the material was also changed to something cheaper. China will destroy our economy................... Tom >> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an >> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so > willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say. > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil > filters for the Sonata. There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of troubles. SignatureZotto Sonica barbonica driver http://www.flickr.com/photos/zottoida/ I read the TSB about engine noise (valve lifters) a while back. Is there another one? I'll have to check. >> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil >> filters for the Sonata. > > There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to > use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of > troubles. >> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil >> filters for the Sonata. > > There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to > use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of > troubles. The TSB from Hyundai was generic - Issued 2005 for All Vehicles. It talked about possible engine noise as a side effect of using aftermarket filters. Others here discussed it further, and said it was maybe due to anti-drainback valve issues. The filters for the 3.3 are bare cartridge filters, not the type in a metal can. They contain no valves. As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for the application. There was absolutely no deviation from their instructions - it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in all that long. I can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they can duplicate the problem. I'm not really concerned about this having damaged the engine, as all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a day of it starting. > As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their > "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a day of it > starting. A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see... Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their >> "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think > they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see... Fortunately, there's no damage other than the mess which a 2 dollar can of degreaser took care of. A neighbor came over and reminded me of the $500 fine for washing cars because of the water restrictions..... They'll either call me back, and be interested, or they won't. Even if they want the filter, etc. back, I'm sure they'll never 'fess up to there being a problem. The filter is still in the car, as I'll probably change the oil sometime this weekend. I just swapped out the O-ring yesterday. I'll do the rest when I change the oil. I sent the pics to someone on this group that emailed for them. If anyone's got a solution for posting them, I'll do that. > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters > for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can > picture how their customer service would react - denial. It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say. However, if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their supplier sent them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose, but unbeknown to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have no opportunity to address them. I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose to ignore it, then that is out of my control. I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil, filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really are often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to matter? That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough in most cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For me, I'll pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai or Purolator or similar filters. I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage. Matt Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the 3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda warm here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of oil come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds like new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them, besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change ']['unez " When your up to your a.s in alligators, its hard to remember, your main objective was to drain the swamp ! " >> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil >> filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Matt I've used Fram from day one and never had a problem with them. I only use fram on my 01 Sonota because no one else carries filters for Hyundai Sonatas other than wall mart. Canadian tire used to have them, but do not carry them any more. I am not going to pay an inflated price for a filter from the dealership. > Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and > every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > > Matt If you'd been paying attention to this or any other forum, you'd know that Fram filters are absolute crap and potentially damaging to your engine. Now you know. Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say about opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles and sold them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one complaint or not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of your opinions aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil 1 came out and I switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has parts fail, it doesnt matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does happen Just because you may have had a bad experiance with a fram filter or read it someplace that doesnt mean you need to condem them for every body else . OH BTW I probably follow this forum more in two days than you do in two weeks, I just read alot and dont post much. ']['unez " When your up to your a.s in alligators, it's hard to remember your main objective was to drain the swamp ! " > If you'd been paying attention to this or any other forum, you'd know that > Fram filters are absolute crap and potentially damaging to your engine. > Now you know. > Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter > who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > or read it someplace that doesnt mean you need to condem them for every > body else . Fram filters changed a lot over that time period. I used them in the early days as well and they were very good then. When Fram was acquired by a different company (forget the details now as it has been many years ago), the filters were redesigned to cut cost. They went from being a premium brand to being a bottom-tier brand almost overnight. Use what you will, but the standard Fram filters today just aren't high quality as several tear-downs have shown. Matt I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter, but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once. otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need one!!! -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just > like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the > filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter, > but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once. > otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need > one!!! Yes, but if the Fram o-ring is really inferior why do you suspect any different about the filter itself? Matt >> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt >> matter who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Matt Exactly. Moreover, when I checked the specs of the Fram filter for the Elantra, the relief valve (bypass valve) pressure was well below Hyundai's specifications. OTOH, Purolator filters ARE made to Hyundai's factory specs. I imagine other reputable filters are also made to the correct specs, but obviously, Fram doesn't care enough to do so, which is more than good enough reason for me to avoid them like the plague. Additionally, any company that sells "snake oil" such as filters that contain Teflon (long ago disproved as a useful oil additive) and nonsense like special filters for use with synthetic oils is highly suspect. This silliness is all about marketing and increasing profits by deceiving the public, not about protecting engines. > Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter > who it was aimed at ) ..... Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends about the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge to thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON VISUAL INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good. That's why I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter still looks fine. It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It would appear that whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat, oil, cold? Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass valve assembly is pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK. Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out some kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess. Well, that in itself says one helluva lot about Fram!!! If they take the time and effort to send you a special box to return the failed filter in then they DO care about their products. That's a lot more than I can say about many other manufacturers that I have dealt with over the years. >> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter >> who it was aimed at ) ..... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that they will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was > make a mess. >> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter >> who it was aimed at ) ..... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they > will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess. That is a great response from Fram. Let us know what you hear back once they get your returned parts. Matt > GUEST wrote > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oi filters > for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took severa pictures of > it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuin Hyundai > filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The picture are very nice. > In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and th inner o-rings > (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from th Hyundai > filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that thes materials are > materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I' want to > know if this was my engine. > > Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, did an oil > change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All wa well until > I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drive the car). > This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had bee leaking from > between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn and found > it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing wa almost > immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping tha it wasn't > cracked > > It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually ha hardened. I've > changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O rin was > still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O rin actually is > now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures o the Hyundai > O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. M server is > currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, o suggestions > as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address i valid), and > I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions s everyone > can see > > I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the pas few > days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on th driveway, and > the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle and ran > the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oi warms, it > quits leaking > > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - can > picture how their customer service would react - denial Th best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about ever brand made over the years and never had engine problems. The Walmar brand seems to work fine However, I have noticed over the years that every now and then on will leak a little. Not sure why but it does not seem to be an particular brand Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oi level and you will be OK Luk > The > best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about every [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oil > level and you will be OK. Do you go to the cheapest hospital and doctor when you are sick? Matt Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed charges. Sad but true. >> The >> best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about every [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Matt > Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least > experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting > Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed > charges. Sad but true. There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go cheap. The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it didn't matter. Matt The perception that price = quality is no longer valid,,, unfortunately. Everywhere you look, you see 'Made in China'. I was at the optometrist yesterday and looked at $300 frames made in China with designer labels. $300 would be a year's salary for many over there. Don't equate 'cheap' cost with cheap quality. It no longer has any bearing. >> Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least >> experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Matt > The perception that price = quality is no longer valid,,, unfortunately. > Everywhere you look, you see 'Made in China'. I was at the optometrist > yesterday and looked at $300 frames made in China with designer labels. > $300 would be a year's salary for many over there. Don't equate 'cheap' > cost with cheap quality. It no longer has any bearing. It certainly isn't the only metric, but it does hold for many, many products. Every oil test I've seen shows correlation between quality and price. Matt I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with off-shore products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5 Billion corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests." Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly, does not mean it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it. >> Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least >> experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Matt > I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design > management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying > products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it. I have only 25 years of engineering and engineering management experience [but in a $6B company - :-)], and I've never had any such mandate. However, that really is the essence of engineering. The key is what the specifications are against which the product is being tested. I designed products and manufacturing equipment, not packaging, but I can see a distinct difference between packaging and products for longer-term use. If the packaging is good enough to protect the contents while it is in transit, that is all that is needed. Making it two times better adds no value. Products that will see a long service live under widely varying conditions are a little bit different. Matt Our 275 gallon containers routinely last 5 years or more carrying hazardous chemicals. It is scary when you relate that to what I said. I find it very strange that you never were under cost constraints. You must have been making the overpriced machinery that we bought. :o) Our company was still 'small' enough to not be insulated from upper management. We routinely conversed and interacted with them. They actually knew what was going on at the 'floor' level - a trait missing in too many of our companies being run by MBA's and accountants. >> I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design >> management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Matt > Our 275 gallon containers routinely last 5 years or more carrying hazardous > chemicals. It is scary when you relate that to what I said. I find it very [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the 'floor' level - a trait missing in too many of our companies being run > by MBA's and accountants. I never said I wasn't under cost constraints. I said that I'd never had a mandate from the CEO to to "make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests." I'm not insulated from upper management. I had the CEO, the President and COO and the CTO in my lab just a few months ago and they are visiting my project again next week... Matt My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea" -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India. There you go!!! The cheap of the cheap................... >I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India. Didn't you just say that the country of origin was no indication of quality? Or by "cheap", do you simply mean "least expensive". > There you go!!! The cheap of the cheap................... > >> I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India. I was using the comments of 'others' to show them that, if they were correct in their proposition that country of origin makes them cheaper, then you can't get any 'cheaper' than India. That was a revered Purolator filter that was made in India, not a Fram. ALL companies under pricing pressure are reverting to the lowest cost producer and making things 'just good enough' to do the job. Fact of life. > Didn't you just say that the country of origin was no indication of > quality? Or by "cheap", do you simply mean "least expensive". > >> There you go!!! The cheap of the cheap................... >> >>> I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India. > My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea" That's interesting in that mine did not specify. I posted a bunch of pictures of it in the ~ June timeframe just after they appeared in the stores. The failed filter was installed around the end of August. I looked at the O-ring again, and it is still compressed looking. > My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea" I'd DIE before I put that cheap Korean crap on my Hyundai. PB >> My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea" That filter may well be a genuine Hyundai filter repackaged by Fram. > I'd DIE before I put that cheap Korean crap on my Hyundai. You've joking, right? Your car is "Made in Korea". Even if it's assembled in the US, most of the parts are made in Korea. >>> My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You've joking, right? Your car is "Made in Korea". Even if it's assembled > in the US, most of the parts are made in Korea. Gee, Bob, that one went WAY over your head. You need to get your sarcasm detector fixed! :-) Matt >>>> My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea" >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Matt With the twist in the thread that occurred earlier, one just can't tell...... > GUEST wrote > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oi filters > for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took severa pictures of > it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuin Hyundai > filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The picture are very nice. > In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and th inner o-rings > (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from th Hyundai > filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that thes materials are > materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I' want to > know if this was my engine. > > Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, did an oil > change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All wa well until > I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drive the car). > This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had bee leaking from > between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn and found > it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing wa almost > immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping tha it wasn't > cracked > > It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually ha hardened. I've > changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O rin was > still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O rin actually is > now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures o the Hyundai > O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. M server is > currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, o suggestions > as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address i valid), and > I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions s everyone > can see > > I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the pas few > days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on th driveway, and > the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle and ran > the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oi warms, it > quits leaking > > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - can > picture how their customer service would react denial Wow! We have covered several areas. I have a BSEE MBA and Masters in Systems Engineering degrees. Have over 30 year experience in product design and now work for a major airplan manufacturing company (many billions) as an Avionics Engineer. To evaluate an oil filter, one would need to know the specification of the product including the tolorances of the parts, the materia trace, the characteristics of the paper used in the filter, th quality control system, etc. We do not have access to that kind o info so just have to go by hearsay and experience I have found a couple of websites that have evaluated oil filters bu just take those inputs with a grain of salt. Also, I wonder abou the value of the filter with the high detergent oils we have today Medical question: I have an HMO and have had a couple of majo surguries over the years. One should be educated and well informe before listening to any doctor. I investigate the ones I use ver thoroughly before using them. Money is not the determining facto but past results are indicative of their quality. When judging the quality of almost anything we purchase or use toda we are limited by time to do research and lack of availabl information According to my training, a product should meet the liste requirements but not be overdesigned to the point of waste. I'm sur this is the attitude of Hyundai Very well put, southluke. > > GUEST wrote: > > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > requirements but not be overdesigned to the point of waste. I'm sure > this is the attitude of Hyundai. > > GUEST wrote: > > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > experience in product design and now work for a major airplane > manufacturing company (many billions) as an Avionics Engineer. Wow, three degrees and still can't spell! :-) > To evaluate an oil filter, one would need to know the specifications > of the product including the tolorances of the parts, the material [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > just take those inputs with a grain of salt. Also, I wonder about > the value of the filter with the high detergent oils we have today. What about high detergent filters causes you to question the value of an oil filter? > Medical question: I have an HMO and have had a couple of major > surguries over the years. One should be educated and well informed > before listening to any doctor. I investigate the ones I use very > thoroughly before using them. Money is not the determining factor > but past results are indicative of their quality. Where was the medical question? > When judging the quality of almost anything we purchase or use today > we are limited by time to do research and lack of available > information. True, but a lot can be gleaned by inspection if you know what you are looking for. > According to my training, a product should meet the listed > requirements but not be overdesigned to the point of waste. I'm sure > this is the attitude of Hyundai. True, again, but there is no single set of requirements for either oil or oil filters. Do you want your oil to last 3,000 miles or 10,000 miles? Ditto the filter? I personally change my oil at 5,000 miles when under warranty and 10,000 miles when out of warranty. The former is almost certainly overkill for Mobil 1, but I don't want to risk a warranty hassle. And I don't want to have to worry if I can't get to an oil change for another 1,000 miles or so. If I was using an oil that met just the minimum requirements to last 3,000 miles without engine damage, then I have absolutely no margin for running to 4,000 occasionally. I personally like large margins for things like oil for the occasional extreme conditions my car may encounter. Matt > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters > for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can > picture how their customer service would react - denial. You might want to check out a friend of mine's web site. He did a fairly exhaustive test of a number of OEM and aftermarket oil filters. The work that Russ did is definitely worth checking out. http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html >> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil >> filters [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html Two phone calls later, I finally received the "Product Evaluation Form" form in the mail. I get to pay to "ship the package in such a way that you are able to track it". I called back, and asked if they could send me a prepaid shipping label, and their customer service rep tols me that I am responsible for paying for shipping it, and that they do not refund shipping. Lets see.... $5.00 shipping a $6.00 filter back so I can help them improve their product. I could see doing this if it damaged my car. This is going to happen to others, as there is nothing unusual about my car. Maybe I'll just send the form back with the pictures of the mess, and the flat O rings to honeywell corporate. I get to say it with a justifiable reason: Fram makes substandard filters, does NOT stand behind them, and does not take the steps necessary to address the problem. "Bob" <bobsjunkmail@bellsouth.net> wrote in message> > and their customer service rep tols me that I am responsible for paying > for shipping it, and that they do not refund shipping. Lets see.... $5.00 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > does NOT stand behind them, and does not take the steps necessary to > address the problem. Wow, what a cheap outfit. If they truly wanted to see you problem, they'd pony up the few bucks for shipping. I'd be tempted to send it back and put in a clam for a new filter and cost of cleaning up the car and driveway. Take photos. HYUNDAI SONATA, AZERA, ENTOURAGE, SANTA FE OIL FILTER FOR 3.3, 3.5, 3.8L V6 CARTRIDGE DRAIN GASKETS LOT OF 4 $38.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYUNDAI-SONATA-AZERA-ENTOURAGE-SANTA-FE-OIL-FILTE R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33661QQihZ001QQitemZ110078196497 SignatureSteve, 2008 Sonata SE http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rfs/463926931.html > Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil > filters for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can > picture how their customer service would react - denial. |
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