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Car Forum / Hyundai Cars / February 20082004 Sonata Needs New Clutch
2004 Hyundai Sonata, 47000 miles, 4 cyl. Was told by the dealership that a new flywheel was needed ($1100) and possibly a new flywheel ($1400). No coverage on warranty because it is considered "normal" wear and tear. Question, has anyone else experienced as issue like this one with a Hyundai? My feeling is that I should have gotten more mileage out of that clutch. I don't ride it or do anything funky. My other vehicle is a 1994 Jeep Wrangler - that clutch lasted 75000 miles, and that's with going off-road, drive through sand, and just beating the crap out of it. I would appreciate any feedback you might have. My personal opinion is that the Hyundai warranty is misleading. M Here are the clutch warranties: Wear: 12 months/12,000 miles Defect: 10 years/100,000 miles (original owner), 5 years/60,000 miles (subsequent owners). If it's just slipping, it's probably only a wear issue. If you have some other odd concern, the chance of a defect goes up. What are the symptoms? -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html The clutch would engage when the pedal was nearly fully let out. Once engaged, it took a long time to build up speed. According to Hyundai, it was not a defect, only normal wear and tear. The car was driven normally, nothing rough or speedy. Also according to Hyundai, normal wear and tear is not covered by the warranty. I just find it hard to believe there's nothing wrong with the clutch with it only lasting 47000 miles. I've taken it to a private mechanic who, after taking it apart, found wear marks on the inside of the clutch housing, as if the assembly was loose and rubbing against the housing. He also said that nothing seemed out of balance or warped. > Here are the clutch warranties: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ > More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html I had exactly the same problem, got the runaround from Hyundai, took them to small claims court, and settled with them for the full repair costs, plus my costs of suit. They also made me sign a nondisclose agreement. Once you sue them, in discovery, you can require them to reveal defects, complaints and clutch/flywheel repair statistics. Since the repair, I have put on an additional 60K miles without a problem. My guess is that there was an assembly defect (such as greasy on the assembly, or defective parts) that they are well aware of. I know of others who have had the same problem as well. My experience with Hyundai America is the reason I will never buy another car from them. On this issue, Hyundai only seems to resolve the issue if you sue them. Good luck. >The clutch would engage when the pedal was nearly fully let out. Once >engaged, it took a long time to build up speed. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ >> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html >I had exactly the same problem, got the runaround from Hyundai, took them >to > small claims court, and settled with them for the full repair costs, plus > my > costs of suit. They also made me sign a nondisclose agreement. So now you have to pay? I had exactly the same problem, got the runaround from Hyundai, took them to small claims court, and settled with them for the full repair costs, plus my costs of suit. They also made me sign a nondisclose agreement. Once you sue them, in discovery, you can require them to reveal defects, complaints and clutch/flywheel repair statistics. Since the repair, I have put on an additional 60K miles without a problem. My guess is that there was an assembly defect (such as greasy on the assembly, or defective parts) that they are well aware of. I know of others who have had the same problem as well. My experience with Hyundai America is the reason I will never buy another car from them. On this issue, Hyundai only seems to resolve the issue if you sue them. Good luck. >The clutch would engage when the pedal was nearly fully let out. Once >engaged, it took a long time to build up speed. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ >> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > I had exactly the same problem, got the runaround from Hyundai, took them to > small claims court, and settled with them for the full repair costs, plus my [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > experience with Hyundai America is the reason I will never buy another car from > them. On this issue, Hyundai only seems to resolve the issue if you sue them. So you are now violating an agreement you signed, right? That places you on the same level as Hyundai (actually, lower in my opinion) and means that anything you say likely can't be trusted as you aren't a trustworthy person. Matt I guess you read the agreement between Hyundai and me and your judgment is so astute that you can determine there was a violation. You're also such a fine judge of character that you can determine who is trustworthy just by reading newsgroup postings. It must be wonderful being you and being able to reach such perfectly accurate conclusions. I'm sure you put your omniscience to good use and you must have many friends and admirers. >> I had exactly the same problem, got the runaround from Hyundai, took them to >> small claims court, and settled with them for the full repair costs, plus my [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Matt > I guess you read the agreement between Hyundai and me and your judgment is so > astute that you can determine there was a violation. You're also such a fine [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> Matt >> Well, after reading your post, and the response to Matt post, I do agree 100% with Matt, you are totally UN-trustworthy, self-centered, and probably not too smart. You and Matt have a lot in common. You ought to start a club. I'm sure it will be very exclusive. You're right that I'm not as smart as you. You're not only a judge of character, but also of intelligence. >> I guess you read the agreement between Hyundai and me and your judgment is >>so [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >100% with Matt, you are totally UN-trustworthy, self-centered, and >probably not too smart. > You and Matt have a lot in common. You ought to start a club. I'm sure it > will be very exclusive. You're right that I'm not as smart as you. You're not > only a judge of character, but also of intelligence. You make it quite easy actually. Matt > > I guess you read the agreement between Hyundai and me and your judgment is so > > astute that you can determine there was a violation. You're also such a fine [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > 100% with Matt, you are totally UN-trustworthy, self-centered, and > probably not too smart. That gets my vote also . look bloke ---------- you just violated a non disclosure agreement - live with it and stop bleating and farting like a gut shot donkey . I suggest you read Michael's original post - you know, the one that asked for feedback because he believed that Hyundai was acting in a deceptive manner. That's what newsgroups are all about - responding to requests for information; you would be wise to think about that before trying to stifle a reply to someone else's request for feedback. And on't worry, I am moving on, bloke. That'll keep this group more homogenous, so you won't have to read comments you don't like and therefore judge as untrustworthy. G'day. >> > I guess you read the agreement between Hyundai and me and your judgment is >> >so [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >look bloke ---------- you just violated a non disclosure agreement - >live with it and stop bleating and farting like a gut shot donkey . I've read all the posts in this thread. And while you could have phrased your reply to provide valuable information without disclosing the facts of the settlement, you didn't do that. Instead, you also chose to post that your settlement was the price of repairs. That would indeed violate a nondisclosure agreement. So I guess I'm on board with all the others that criticized you here. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html I understand your position and appreciate that you at least acknowledged that I may have provided useful information in response to a request for information. What you may want to consider is that informing the requester about the nondisclose agreement also conveyed potentially useful information. What you also may want to consider is that the nondisclosure language was not boilerplate language and did not prevent my communication here. Providing copies of the pleadings would have violated the terms of nondisclosure. In any event, it's too bad the responders (but perhaps significantly not the original requester) are much too quick to jump to conclusions and insult rather than encourage discussion. >I've read all the posts in this thread. And while you could have phrased >your reply to provide valuable information without disclosing the facts of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ >More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > I understand your position and appreciate that you at least acknowledged that I > may have provided useful information in response to a request for information. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > requester) are much too quick to jump to conclusions and insult rather than > encourage discussion. Information useful if it can be trusted. You aren't a trustworthy person and thus your information isn't trustworthy and is thus not useful. Matt > I suggest you read Michael's original post - you know, the one that asked for > feedback because he believed that Hyundai was acting in a deceptive manner. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > homogenous, so you won't have to read comments you don't like and therefore > judge as untrustworthy. G'day. G'Day Mate. > I guess you read the agreement between Hyundai and me and your judgment is so > astute that you can determine there was a violation. You're also such a fine > judge of character that you can determine who is trustworthy just by reading > newsgroup postings. It must be wonderful being you and being able to reach > such perfectly accurate conclusions. I'm sure you put your omniscience to good > use and you must have many friends and admirers. So, you aren't denying that I'm right? I didn't need to read the agreement. The content of your post combined with your attempt to remain anonymous was all the information required. Matt > The clutch would engage when the pedal was nearly fully let out. Once > engaged, it took a long time to build up speed. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and rubbing against the housing. He also said that nothing seemed out of > balance or warped. If the clutch and pressure plate were rubbing on the casing you would certainly have known it for those 47,000 miles.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net Just from the symptoms, it sounds like a wear issue. If you complain to Hyundai, they may or may not assist. If you don't receive assistance, you'll wind up paying for repairs yourself. You could go to small claims or other court, but winning won't be a certainty. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html I just want to add that people shouldn't be aghast at replacing a clutch a 43k miles. Superior drivers, like most of us here<grin> can nurse a clutch for much longer, but we all know that one poorly excecuted drag race at the lights, or one instance or being mired in mud, or a single messy up hill start in the snow can doom that critter. Just ask my wife. Also, one thing I wonder about is the OP's costs... seem quite high, and why not resurface the flywheel. Ya, I top posted. > Just from the symptoms, it sounds like a wear issue. If you complain to > Hyundai, they may or may not assist. > > If you don't receive assistance, you'll wind up paying for repairs > yourself. You could go to small claims or other court, but winning won't > be a certainty. Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts. It just pisses me off that the clutch went out at 47K - I think it should have lasted longer, especially since it's not driven hard. Further, the flywheel has to be replaced - $1050 just for the part and no after market available. My personal opinion of Hyundai has really diminished to the point where I won't ever buy another one. Their warranty doesn't count for much of anything. >I just want to add that people shouldn't be aghast at replacing a clutch a >43k miles. Superior drivers, like most of us here<grin> can nurse a clutch [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> yourself. You could go to small claims or other court, but winning won't >> be a certainty. > Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > where I won't ever buy another one. Their warranty doesn't count for much of > anything. I agree that a clutch should last much longer than that under normal conditions, but Hyundai has no idea as to whether your car was driven "normally" or hard. The same problem exists with brake linings. I often get 60,000 miles out of disk pads, yet I know many people lucky to get 12,000 and you need only one ride with them to know why. The problem with wear items like this is that their life is necessity VERY dependent on driver technique and the car maker has no control over that. I'm concerned that my Sonata clutch is not going to have a long life as it is a VERY hard car to drive such as to be easy on the clutch. The clutch is too light with little feedback during engagement and the throttle is like a switch. This makes if very hard to start out with anything less than 1500 or so RPM. With my Chevy truck, I can modulate the throttle and clutch such that I can start out smartly yet smoothly and never exceed 1,000 RPM before the clutch is fully engaged. Doing this with my Sonata is nearly impossible and can be done only with intense concentration and with a very slow start - not very conducive to driving in heavy traffic with a line of cars behind you waiting for you to get going. Matt >> Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts. >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Matt Matt, I understand your point regarding items that wear and Hyundai having no idea whether the item was abused or not. That doesn't work for me though. It is too subjective, therefore there must be objective criteria for the service person to use in order to judge whether abuse or misuse ocurred. Thanks for the reply. >>> Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts. >>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > too subjective, therefore there must be objective criteria for the service > person to use in order to judge whether abuse or misuse ocurred. Unfortunately, you are looking for an ideal that simply doesn't yet exist. I suspect some day more cars will have "black boxes" that record every move the driver makes which then makes these warranty issues much more objective, although I suspect most car owners will NOT want such a device in there car. The few cars that have even a simple black box now are causing all sorts of consternation among their owners. Matt >>> Thanks Darby, and for all the other posts. >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Thanks for the reply. It's just not that simple. Doing things like slipping the clutch to hold the car on hills will wear it out rapidly, but will likely not leave any indications unless one really burns the clutch badly. I have no idea how you drive and I'm not assuming anything, but clutch life it totally dependent on driving technique and it doesn't necessarily have to do with whether a car is driven "hard" or not. FWIW, my '04 Elantra has almost 70K miles on it and the clutch is fine. I've gotten over 100K miles out of the clutches on all but one of my my other cars (a '79 Saab, which were known for rapid clutch wear, but it was an easy DIY repair) and hopefully, I will with this one, too. Unlike most clutches, the damper in this system is in the flywheel rather than the clutch disc. Not only can the flywheel not be resurfaced, it's also very expensive. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > Unlike most clutches, the damper in this system is in the flywheel rather > than the clutch disc. Not only can the flywheel not be resurfaced, it's > also very expensive. What do you mean by this? Do you mean that the spring center is in the flywheel rather than the clutch disk? By this I mean the springs that are oriented circumferentially and allow the disk to rotate slightly in relation to the splines so as to absorb rotational shocks. Matt Matt wrote: "What do you mean by this? Do you mean that the spring center is in the flywheel rather than the clutch disk? By this I mean the springs that are oriented circumferentially and allow the disk to rotate slightly in relation to the splines so as to absorb rotational shocks." Pretty much. I've never actually tried to take one of these flywheels apart to see what the dampers look like, so I'm not sure that the mechanism looks like it does on the clutch disc. In this system, the clutch disc is solid-- the fibers are attached to the disc, which is part now essentially part of the hub, rather than being attached via the dampers (the circumferential spring assemblies). The flywheel has two parts, joined by a damper, and it's possible to turn the transmission side of the flywheel about 20 degrees or so with respect to the engine side. -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html Since I'm not that great at describing things, I did some googling on "dual mass flywheel," and here's one of the better links I've found. It's the LuK website. http://www.luk.com/content.luk.de/en/products/clutch_systems_new/zms_new/zms_new.jsp I do wish, however, everyone would stop using the verb "dampen" and the noun "dampener" to indicate the verb "damp" and the noun "damper." Am I alone in this? -- Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html > Since I'm not that great at describing things, I did some googling on "dual > mass flywheel," and here's one of the better links I've found. It's the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/ > More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html \ Amen, brother! Dampener Verboten! Good job finding the Luk link. Bookmarked (Anyone visiting the site, click on "Detail" for the inside story.) No freakin' wonder the flywheel costs over a grand!! Speedy Jim http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/ > Since I'm not that great at describing things, I did some googling on "dual > mass flywheel," and here's one of the better links I've found. It's the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > noun "dampener" to indicate the verb "damp" and the noun "damper." Am I > alone in this? No, but I've long given up trying to correct the unwashed masses that can't seem to understand the difference. Matt > Since I'm not that great at describing things, I did some googling on "dual > mass flywheel," and here's one of the better links I've found. It's the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > noun "dampener" to indicate the verb "damp" and the noun "damper." Am I > alone in this? No, you're not. > Matt wrote: > "What do you mean by this? Do you mean that the spring center is in the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > parts, joined by a damper, and it's possible to turn the transmission side > of the flywheel about 20 degrees or so with respect to the engine side. Interesting. I wonder why Hyundai made this choice? Since these dampers are likely to deteriorate with use, it seems much more prudent to attach them to the primary wear component rather than a more permanent component. Matt > You could go to small claims or other court, but winning won't > be a certainty. And if you win, you may not be able to tell anyone about it :)
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